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Philippines: army takes on Muslim separatists who want to form Islamic state

1. Muslim genocide of hindus in India (a must read) :: Reader comments at Daniel Pipes

How Islam Spread in India | Lost Islamic History

Alternatively, you can read some history books about India. India was one of the first tagets for the jihad that quickly took so much territory. In the early VIIth century you already had mosques built on the shores of India. This was because India was one of the main targets of the arabic slave trade. I.e, they would take africans and send them as slaves to India. It is the reason why the southern parts of india, the population is significantly more darker skinned than the northern indians.

2. Look at both sides of the coin in the Balkans? You mean the side where the ottomans demanded blood tribute (children) from all the people they oppressed to be brainwashed into warriors.... and the other side of the coin is when they would send these warriors to oppress their own people? These 2 sides of the coin?

You better start making some proper commentaries instead of just making apologies and ammends on the behalf of a foul ideology, buddy boy. Or else this conversation is over. I'm not here to educate you on basic stuff.

Guy, when I ask you for references, I'm asking you for REPUTABLE references - not blog posts. You made a great, sweeping claim - so you should be able to show me some hard-and-fast REPUTABLE references to prove that claim.

Same thing about the 'blood tribute' claim above - got a reputable reference to prove it? And at the same time, you're looking at only one side of the story - for one example out of many, Vlad the Impaler was a very real person, and I'm quite sure that you've read how cruel he was...and he did what he did in the name of the Catholic church.
 
Taking into account what has happened throughout history gives a real sense of perspective that is impossible to gain when one thinks only of the here and now.
In the here and now is where we find ourselves and the here and now is what we have to deal with.
The Jews also didn't have a Jewish homeland at any time in all Islamic history to where they could go. Furthermore, immigration to the free democracies of the West is much easier now than before...and some of the free democracies are far safer for Jews than they once were.

You do know that the Jews preceded Muslims in the Middle East by several centuries, right?

Maybe you haven't heard about the "twice-promised land" - Google it sometime. It's a very interesting story...and if you track it down, you'll find that the roots of Islamic terrorism lay not so much in anyone's religion, but more on Western colonization of the Middle East, and on our continuing meddling in their affairs - including forcible regime change - after they become their own nations.

Well perhaps you feel that gives Muslims license to shoot little girls in the head, blow up tourists at a disco in Bali, or murder women waiting for a bus but many others feel that this is contrary to all rules of civilized behavior. Would this 'twice promised land' article explain why Muslims murdered those kindergarten children in Beslan?
And if you add up all the deaths in those terrorist attacks, it won't even come close to the number of Muslims killed in the Catholic Ustashe genocide during WWII. I doubt your list would even equal the total of Muslims killed in the (much smaller) genocide in the same area in the early 1990's.

What is your point here? That Muslims can continue to murder innocents because they haven't reached a certain quota?
 
not to mention the blood bath that were the crusades.

What do you know of the Crusades? Have you ever done any serious research on the subject?

But, in any case, what do the crusades have to do with Islamic terrorism today?
 
Guy, when I ask you for references, I'm asking you for REPUTABLE references - not blog posts. You made a great, sweeping claim - so you should be able to show me some hard-and-fast REPUTABLE references to prove that claim.

Same thing about the 'blood tribute' claim above - got a reputable reference to prove it? And at the same time, you're looking at only one side of the story - for one example out of many, Vlad the Impaler was a very real person, and I'm quite sure that you've read how cruel he was...and he did what he did in the name of the Catholic church.
If you want an in depth analysis of the indian massacres that occured under the islamic rule of parts of India and the conquest, then go and get some studying done.

The information is all there. The blog also gave you references so do check them out.

As for the blood tribute, omg, you really don't know anything about history. What are you doing here? What is your purpose in this discussion? To make apologies?

Here's a god damn encyclopedia you can look through.

I'll point you in the right direction buddy, but if you want to learn something then I can't hold your hands. This isn't highschool. This is a debating site. If you know nothing, don't start talking.

devsirme (Ottoman government) -- Encyclopedia Britannica

I'm not even going to bother commenting on your affirmations on Vlad the Impaler. If you do not know BASIC history and guidelines in the world, how can you hope of understanding such a complex character of Vlad the Impaler and his activities. Just piss of will you. You're an educational joke.
 
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Singapore is a beautiful, beautiful city - it was one of my favorite ports of call. I just wish it wasn't so hot there!

Watch the F1 this Sunday. It is a night race and you can see the beautiful skyline.
 
All those critics of what is happening in India, Indonesia and Philippines, compare what is happening in Syria today with US entering into the foray.
 
All those critics of what is happening in India, Indonesia and Philippines, compare what is happening in Syria today with US entering into the foray.

Islamic terrorism is international and the US isn't doing a great deal in Syria.
 
Islamic terrorism is international and the US isn't doing a great deal in Syria.

The US supporting a terrorist group in Syria and Tomahawk missiles standing by isn't a great deal?
 
In the here and now is where we find ourselves and the here and now is what we have to deal with.

Making a decision without knowing the history behind the people involved in that decision is imprudent at best, and deadly foolish at worst. For instance, George W. Bush did not know the difference between - and the hatred shared between - Sunni and Shi'a Muslims. ANYone who regularly deals with the Muslim world knows they must keep that particular blood feud in mind. Why? Because Vali Nasr - who was a professor at the U.S. Navy Postgraduate School - recorded a quote by the second-in-command of (Sunni) al-Qaeda, which went something like this: "Keep up the fight against the Great Satan and the Zionists, but never forget that the real enemy are the apostate Shi'a." I can't find that particular quote online, but it's in this book (which was recommended reading for Naval officers).

Again, knowing history is absolutely essential when it comes to dealing with human issues of today.

You do know that the Jews preceded Muslims in the Middle East by several centuries, right?

So? And the Native Americans preceded Europeans who landed here for much longer than that. If you're going with the "we were there first" excuse, then there's a LOT of nations where the current inhabitants would have to move away.

Well perhaps you feel that gives Muslims license to shoot little girls in the head, blow up tourists at a disco in Bali, or murder women waiting for a bus but many others feel that this is contrary to all rules of civilized behavior. Would this 'twice promised land' article explain why Muslims murdered those kindergarten children in Beslan? What is your point here? That Muslims can continue to murder innocents because they haven't reached a certain quota?

So what does that say about us, when our general ordered his men to kill all Filipino men over the age of ten? And what about when Saddam Hussein used chemical weapons on the Iranians (during the Iran-Iraq war) on a scale not seen since WWI...and we not only stood by, but we gave him satellite intelligence showing him where the Iranians were - and it also seems that we gave him the precursor chemicals that allowed him to manufacture those chemical weapons. And Donald Rumsfeld shook his hand in friendship.

In other words, there's PLENTY of blame to go around.
 
Making a decision without knowing the history behind the people involved in that decision is imprudent at best, and deadly foolish at worst.

So when Muslims attacked the US on 9/11 you would look to the crusades for further information. You're probably not involved in the security business.

The rest of your post is also gibberish.
 
The US supporting a terrorist group in Syria and Tomahawk missiles standing by isn't a great deal?

You are right about Barrack Obama giving arms to terrorists, which is obscenely bad, but this does not excuse Islamic terrorism throughout the world.
 
You are right about Barrack Obama giving arms to terrorists, which is obscenely bad, but this does not excuse Islamic terrorism throughout the world.

Absolutely. USA by giving arms to terrorists and agreeing to train the terrorists does not excuse Islamic terrorism.
 
Absolutely. USA by giving arms to terrorists and agreeing to train the terrorists does not excuse Islamic terrorism.

I wouldn't blame the USA for Obama's actions. There is talk of having this incompetent impeached now.

And of course Islamic terrorism preceded BHO by several decades.
 
If you want an in depth analysis of the indian massacres that occured under the islamic rule of parts of India and the conquest, then go and get some studying done.

The information is all there. The blog also gave you references so do check them out.

As for the blood tribute, omg, you really don't know anything about history. What are you doing here? What is your purpose in this discussion? To make apologies?

Here's a god damn encyclopedia you can look through.

I'll point you in the right direction buddy, but if you want to learn something then I can't hold your hands. This isn't highschool. This is a debating site. If you know nothing, don't start talking.

devsirme (Ottoman government) -- Encyclopedia Britannica

I'm not even going to bother commenting on your affirmations on Vlad the Impaler. If you do not know BASIC history and guidelines in the world, how can you hope of understanding such a complex character of Vlad the Impaler and his activities. Just piss of will you. You're an educational joke.

Guy, when you make claims that are not common knowledge, you MUST be able to back them up. The claims you made are not common knowledge, and most blogs - which are notorious for being skewed by personal bias - are not considered proof...especially considering that you took as proof NOT an original article on a blog, but the READER COMMENT section on that blog.

So I looked up the author of the article - Koenraad_Elst - that was referenced on that reader comment. Despite his claims otherwise, Elst appears to be an Islamophobe with sympathies to the political right, and his work has been roundly criticized as not objective, but biased. In any case, Elst's work is NOT reflective of mainstream historical record. This is not proof that he is right or wrong, but that he is not in agreement with most historians. On this page, there is one historian that agrees with Elst's claim of the Indian population being decreased by 80 million, and there is another historian - the _very_ respected Will Durant - who says that yes, Islam was spread through violence, but there's no indication that he bought into the '80 million' claim of the others. But the next paragraph shows that there is some strong indication that Islam was not spread through the point of a sword:

Critics of the "religion of the sword theory" point to the presence of the strong Muslim communities found in Southern India, modern day Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, western Burma, Indonesia and the Philippines coupled with the distinctive lack of equivalent Muslim communities around the heartland of historical Muslim empires in South Asia as refutation to the "conversion by the sword theory".[2] The legacy of Muslim conquest of South Asia is a hotly debated issue even today. Not all Muslim invaders were simply raiders. Later rulers fought on to win kingdoms and stayed to create new ruling dynasties. The practices of these new rulers and their subsequent heirs (some of whom were borne of Hindu wives of Muslim rulers) varied considerably.

NOW, guy, here's MY take on this: YOUR first clue that Elst's claims about Islam are suspect should have been this claim: "The Bahmani sultans (1347-1480) in central India made it a rule to kill 100,000 captives in a single day, and many more on other occasions. The conquest of the Vijayanagar empire in 1564 left the capital plus large areas of Karnataka depopulated. And so on."

You know what? This is NOTHING DIFFERENT from what the Mongols did in their invasion of the Middle East - estimates of the Mongol sack of Baghdad in 1258 range from 90,000 all the way up to a million. When the Mongols sacked a city, if the city did not surrender outright, it was NORMAL for them to kill almost everyone within the city. Later, Timur the Lame's invasion of India was NOT an attempt to 'spread Islam at the point of a sword', but an attempt to restore the empire of Genghis Khan...and he killed 100,000 in his sack of Delhi.

What's more, even if there was an 80-million decrease in the population of the subcontinent, it almost certainly could not have been due solely to war, but more due to the disease and famine that ALWAYS accompany war, and - before WWII - always resulted in more death than the combat itself.

IN OTHER WORDS, what Elst did was to take what was done by the great conquerors of the time - and the disease and famine that would have killed more than the conquerors could have - and tried to attribute it to Islam. What he does not understand - and what you almost certainly won't want to hear - is that as is almost always the case, the religion was the EXCUSE given to the soldiers and the people by the warlords in their lust for conquest.

Next time, guy, remember that just because someone says something that sounds good to you, that doesn't make it true.
 
So when Muslims attacked the US on 9/11 you would look to the crusades for further information. You're probably not involved in the security business.

The rest of your post is also gibberish.

Do you really think that we didn't do great harm in the Middle East long before 9/11? WE engineered the coup in Iran in the 1950's that overthrew the democratically-elected government and installed the Shah Reza Pahlavi in its place - the government's crime (in our eyes) was that they didn't want us to have access to their oil. WE supported Saddam Hussein by giving him our intelligence so he would know where to direct his chemical warfare against the Iranians in the Iran-Iraq war - and there's indications that we even provided him the precursor chemicals for making those chemical weapons (not to mention ignoring his use of those chemical weapons in violation of international law (unlike what we're doing with Syria)).

Think about that - if in your living memory a nation had engineered a coup in your country...and THEN thirty years later helped your enemy to attack you with chemical weapons, what would you think of that nation? Especially when that nation then decided to invade nations on BOTH sides of your own? And Iraq was invaded on false pretenses, without provocation, for they did not in any way present a clear and present danger to America. Looking at it that way, I'm really, truly surprised that Iran has acted with the restraint that they have, for if we had been in THEIR shoes, we'd be screaming for the destruction of the nation that did such things! And so would every nation even remotely allied with us. Considering what WE have done in that region, I really, truly cannot blame them for hating us. Don't get me wrong - 9/11 was a crime that we had to respond to, and bin Laden had to be found and killed (my Navy retirement ceremony was the day before 9/11 - the next morning was pretty surreal).

But America's actions in the region just within living memory have more than earned the distrust and hatred of most of the Muslim world.
 
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