personal responsibility vs. corporate responsibility

[Cassandra]

Why do self-described conservatives/ libertarians obsess about personal responsibility and give a pass on corporate responsibility, in general??

 

[jackalope]

Why do self-described conservatives/ libertarians obsess about personal responsibility and give a pass on corporate responsibility, in general??

Because they are confused about our system of gov't, and think our economic system (capitalism) is our governing system (democratic republic).

 

[seanyboy]

For the same reasons that liberals obsesses about corporate responsibility and give a pass on personal responsibility.

 

[Cassandra]

For the same reasons that liberals obsesses about corporate responsibility and give a pass on personal responsibility.

That is a diversion not an answer. What would that reason be?

 

[Cephus]

Why do self-described conservatives/ libertarians obsess about personal responsibility and give a pass on corporate responsibility, in general??

I don't, I want *EVERYONE* to be responsible. Imagine that!

 

[Harshaw]

I reject the premise of the question, actually.

 

[seanyboy]

That is a diversion not an answer. What would that reason be?

Cassandra,

Diversion was not my intention. I posted that reply only to make the point that you make a broad charge with no evidence or examples to back it up. In fairness you did say "in general" so I will do my best to answer.

First off, let me start by making a few points:

• Any individual who claims to be a conservative, yet does not recognize corprorate responsibility is a liar.
• Any person that can find a reason to abandon their principles, no matter what that reason may be, never really had any principles to begin with.
• The group of people that call themselves conservative is much larger than the group of people that actually are conservative.

Now, as far a "so-called" conservatives that obsess about personal responsibility, yet ignore corporate responsibility; I can only speculate on the reasons why. The only rational explanation I can come up with is special interests (campaign donations, reelections, monetary compensation, etc...).

In truth, I don't really know why. I can't speak for people that think like that. I believe that all individuals, businesses, corporations, etc...have responsibilities, and they must all face the consequences for their actions, good or bad. I don't believe that an individual that claims corporations have no responsibilities is truthfully a conservative, though they may claim they are.

Please give me some specific examples of what you are referring to, and what exactly you mean by corporate responsibility. Perhaps then I could give you a better answer.

 

[Kal'Stang]

Corporate responsibility = personal responsibility. A Corporation cannot have any kind of responsibility as it is not alive. However the people running that corporation can and should have personal responsibility. If the people running the corporation does not have personal responsibility then the actions they take within that corporation will reflect that through the corporation.

 

[liblady]

For the same reasons that liberals obsesses about corporate responsibility and give a pass on personal responsibility.

ah, but we don't.

 

[seanyboy]

ah, but we don't.

ha ha, liblady. I was only saying that because conservatives don't either;but we are being accused of it.

 

[liblady]

ha ha, liblady. I was only saying that because conservatives don't either;but we are being accused of it.

broad statement, yes. but do you agree that conservatives seem to inevitably land on the side of the corporations, whether it's the environment, wages, anything? i don't think you can honestly deny that.

 

[AlbqOwl]

Why do self-described conservatives/ libertarians obsess about personal responsibility and give a pass on corporate responsibility, in general??

Because without personal responsibility there is no responsibility of any kind.

Corporations are not thinking, breathing entities but are structures organized and operated by human beings. If the people operating it are people with a sense of integrity and personal responsibilty, the corporation will be operated in an ethical manner. If the people lack integrity and a sense of personal responsibility, the corporation will not be operated in an ethical manner.

Likewise for a government who is not the quasi-god and end-all solution as some want it to be. A government is only as competent, ethical, responsible, and responsive as are the people elected or appointed to represent it.

The Founders were of one voice that the Constitution was written for a virtuous and moral people, and that only a virtuous and moral people would keep the Republic that they gave us.

Andrew Jackson summarized this in 1837:

"You have no longer any cause to fear danger from abroad.... It is from within, among yourselves, from cupidity, from corruption, from disappointed ambition, and inordinate thirst for power that....[liberty will be] in danger. It is against such design....that you have especially to guard yourselves. You have the highest of human trusts committed to your care. Providence has showered on this favored land blessings without number and has chosen you as the guardians of freedom to preserve it for the benefit of the human race.... I thank God that my life has been spent in a land of liberty...."

No people who hand over their personal responsibility to a government remain a free people.

 

[seanyboy]

broad statement, yes. but do you agree that conservatives seem to inevitably land on the side of the corporations, whether it's the environment, wages, anything? i don't think you can honestly deny that.

No mam, and I am not denying it. In fact for the most part I agree with it, in those cases(more so on the topic of wages); but that is not to say that corporations don't have responsibilities. What I was referring to in my earlier post has more to do with bailouts and such.

What do you consider corporate responsibilities to be?(I am not asking this question in a sarcastic tone, I am literally trying to figure out exactly what you guys are talking about)

 

[liblady]

No mam, and I am not denying it. In fact for the most part I agree with it, in those cases(more so on the topic of wages); but that is not to say that corporations don't have responsibilities. What I was referring to in my earlier post has more to do with bailouts and such.

What do you consider corporate responsibilities to be?(I am not asking this question in a sarcastic tone, I am literally trying to figure out exactly what you guys are talking about)

i will have to continue this tomorrow, but here's a start: corporations must provide a safe working environment, fair wages and avoid harming our physical environment.

they also have a responsiblity to uphold their agreements with employees, ie, pensions and insurance agreements.

sometimes bailout are necessary. remember chrysler?

 

[Oftencold]

First, the term "corporate responsibility" in the proper sense means responsibility accruing to any group of people.

Thus we might argue that Liberals are far more enamored of this mindset. For illustration, making the entire population responsible for the healthcare of each individual.

But in the limited sense that you probably meant, since a corporation is made up of individuals, each held responsible before the law, it is hard to imagine how the Corporation which they compose is somehow free of responsibility.

Further, and I might add, obviously, Conservatives, being the champions of the Free Market, hold any business to a harsh standard. We are after all the ones who in general, promoted the idea of letting Union infested car manufacturers fail as the responsible result of their ineptitude.

One will assume though, by the tone of your post that you refer to legal prosecution of corporations, for offenses, whether real or the product of over emotional imaginations.

I must ask that you provide some specific examples which do not involve the call for a previously granted corporate privilege being revoked after the fact of some alleged offense.

 

[DrunkenAsparagus]

How many Conservatives or Liberterians don't favor corporate responsibility? Responsibility isn't only enforced through government regulation.

 

[AlbqOwl]

How many Conservatives or Liberterians don't favor corporate responsibility? Responsibility isn't only enforced through government regulation.

I would say that zero Conservatives or Libertarians don't favor corporate responsibility. I would also say that zero Liberals, Democrats, extremist flaming wacko left wingnuts, etc. etc. etc. don't favor corporate responsibility either.

The problem is: what is the definition of corporate responsibility?

The Constitution and anti-trust laws keep us from legally doing eocnomic or physical mayhem or violence to each other.

Other laws prevent certain monopolies or zoning encroachments or assault on the environment, etc.

But utlimately it again comes down to personal responsibility. If the people appreciate and respect a solid moral center, virtue, and basic human values, the corporations will follow suit. If the people do not demand such of themselves, the corporations will also follow suit.

A free people gets exactly the government, social structure, and corporate structure that they dictate through their own sense of responsibility. Of course if they do not appreciate and exercise personal responsibility, they lose their liberties and eventually have no say in the matter whatsoever.

 

[Dav]

Why do self-described conservatives/ libertarians obsess about personal responsibility and give a pass on corporate responsibility, in general??

Because corporate irresponsibility usually leads to a company crashing or at least doing poorly. Thus there is no need to obsess over it, it is self-correcting.

Unless, of course, the company is bailed out, as many liberals would like.

Thus, it is actually liberals who don't care about corporate responsibility.

 

[mpg]

Favoring corporate responsibility IS conservative.

Was it liberals or conservatives who wanted the bailouts? IIRC it was mostly liberals, especially with the auto bailouts.

 

[AlbqOwl]

Favoring corporate responsibility IS conservative.

Was it liberals or conservatives who wanted the bailouts? IIRC it was mostly liberals, especially with the auto bailouts.

Quite right as was Dav's comment.

Of course we still haven't defined what is meant by 'corporations' or what is meant by corporate responsibility.

A mom and pop two-man hotdog stand can be incorporated, but I don't think that is what is intended here. More probably j'corporation' in this context will be described as big banks, lending institutions, auto manufactures, GE, Proctor & Gamble, Remington, et al of that caliber.

And it is no coincidence that most big corporations of that caliber give far more campaign contributions to Democrats than they do Republicans. Why? One reason is it is the Democrats who are in power and who will be issuing the big contracts and making making major purchases. Another reason is that liberal policies generally benefit big corporations much more than mid size and small business--in fact, liberal policies can hinder profits of mid size and small business.

So usually when a liberal of whichever party talks about corporate responsibility, he or she is probably describing something very different than a conservative of whichever party means when he or she talks about corporate responsibility.

 

[Alex Libman]

Why do self-described conservatives/ libertarians obsess about personal responsibility and give a pass on corporate responsibility, in general??

Because corporations are groups of... individuals... :doh

Why do teachers assign individual grades and not a collective grade for the whole class / school / city / planet?

 

[Cassandra]

Cassandra,

Diversion was not my intention. I posted that reply only to make the point that you make a broad charge with no evidence or examples to back it up. In fairness you did say "in general" so I will do my best to answer.

First off, let me start by making a few points:

• Any individual who claims to be a conservative, yet does not recognize corprorate responsibility is a liar.
• Any person that can find a reason to abandon their principles, no matter what that reason may be, never really had any principles to begin with.
• The group of people that call themselves conservative is much larger than the group of people that actually are conservative.

Now, as far a "so-called" conservatives that obsess about personal responsibility, yet ignore corporate responsibility; I can only speculate on the reasons why. The only rational explanation I can come up with is special interests (campaign donations, reelections, monetary compensation, etc...).

In truth, I don't really know why. I can't speak for people that think like that. I believe that all individuals, businesses, corporations, etc...have responsibilities, and they must all face the consequences for their actions, good or bad. I don't believe that an individual that claims corporations have no responsibilities is truthfully a conservative, though they may claim they are.

Please give me some specific examples of what you are referring to, and what exactly you mean by corporate responsibility. Perhaps then I could give you a better answer.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/health-care/57297-assuming-healthcare-right.html

The above thread prompted the question.

Lots of people identify themselves,"Libertarian" on this forum and whenever I point out corporate failures, I hear excuses for those corporate failures.

Are Libertarians aware of the history of the movement vis a vis Corporations? It is my understanding that Libertarians were in the forefront raising the alarm about the power and privilege invested in the corporation. Ambrose Bierce defined the corporation as "an ingenious device for obtaining individual profit w/o individual responsibility". So true. Anytime you award an entity so much power and privilege with the sole mandate that of increasing share holder value, you ask for trouble. Corporations were not always so empowered. If Libertarians believe in limiting the power of government, how can they NOT believe that the scope and power of a corporation -the shadow puppet master pulling the strings of government- is not a threat to liberty?

 

[Cassandra]

Because corporations are groups of... individuals... :doh

A group of individuals with special privileges and limited liability.

 

[obvious Child]

What social responsibilities does a corporation have?

1) Not screw up the environment (or clean it up if you do)
2) Follow the laws
3) Produce profits for your shareholders

The notion that corporations have to give back to the community always seemed like bull**** to me. Sure it's good PR, but it's not really their responsibility.

 

[Cassandra]

What social responsibilities does a corporation have?

1) Not screw up the environment (or clean it up if you do)
2) Follow the laws
3) Produce profits for your shareholders

The notion that corporations have to give back to the community always seemed like bull**** to me. Sure it's good PR, but it's not really their responsibility.

I am not suggesting that corporations should be altruistic but when profit motive overrides all other considerations and individuals do not feel responsible because that sensation is highly dispersed and diluted by a shared sense of invulnerablity....

2) Follow the laws

But what happens, in reality, is that corporations help write the laws.