Pelosi: Democrats Are Not Going To Fund Trump's "Immoral" Border Wall

[Cardinal]

You're only interested in attacking Trump. That's the only satisfaction you get out of life.

If you see holding people to their promises as "attacking" them, then so be it.

 

[Irwin Corey]

I'm assuming your ancestors came here LEGALLY.

Yes but the circumstances were the same, the definition of legal is what has changed.

 

[Moderate Right]

Not really. If you think going after employers who hire illegals, taking away welfare from any household that has an illegal, and working to better our drug policies rather than build a wall will make America a ****hole, I just can't understand the logic there.

We have a lot of Americans who work "under the table". It is an epidemic. That's just a fact of life and it is a fact of life that people will come here illegally so they can work under the table. We need to do the things you mentioned AND build the wall. A wall would not actually be necessary if Democrats were serious about stopping illegal immigration, particularly California Democrats. But, they aren't serious about stopping illegal immigration.

 

[Mason66]

I can't be built for 5 billion or even 25 billion and maintenance after it's built is extraordinary; google it. I don't know where you got 5 billion, trump himself STARTED at 7, quickly went to 10 and ended up north of 20.

The difference in my thoughts is the wall is a solution in search of a problem. For the last several years we've been at a push on people coming and leaving and recent estimates are it's going negative. When I first went down to Mexico it appeared dirt poor and they were hungry for dollars. My visit last year showed how much improved Mexican infrastructure is and they only take pesos now. Mexico is headed toward self sufficiency. When the get there who's going to harvest our crops, clean our houses, take care of our yards and cook our food?

We only take pesos now because the government doesn't allow us to use dollars because of the laundering problems.

You can't take dollars into a bank to deposit them or use them to buy anything around town, unless you are at the border or within the border area.

 

[americanwoman]

A fence is a wall. And every school literally has hundreds of walls in additions to fences. Every classroom has 6 walls. You have walls yourself which protect your house. Your car, Your car, your workplace. Is the oldest form of security when we had 5 walls called a cave.

Yes and if you have things in your car, house, workplace, or school that millions of people could benefit by, those "walls" would be useless to keep those people out.

The better idea is to keep valuables out of your car, house, etc... or do you keep for instance, a laptop on your passenger seat because the car door "wall" will keep it protected?

 

[trouble13]

Re: Pelosi: Democrats Are Not Going To Fund Trump's "Immoral" Border Wall

Gonna borrow it all from China, then?

Are you suggesting we cut 40% from our current budget

Oh yeah and a freeze on all spending increases

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[Mason66]

I'm assuming your ancestors came here LEGALLY.

People that bring up Ellis Island forget that a lot of people were turned away there for disease or other reasons.

It was not a free for all, and everybody that came in was documented.

 

[Cardinal]

That is reasonable, and I don't doubt for a minute than other world leaders aren't thinking the same thing. That may be the very reason that we aren't getting much done re border security, import/export, denuclearization of NK....

In my opinion, the reason why our allies and trading partners haven't all completely moved on is because of the assumption that all they have to do is wait Trump out. And if that's true, then frankly that's extremely generous and more than we deserve.

 

[Moderate Right]

The wall is a mere token. If Pelosi is interested in improving our immigration system, i.e. make the application process more efficient, as well as focusing on taking away incentives (which she isn't interested in doing, because she feigns more compassion for foreigners than our own citizens), perhaps she'd have room to talk about morals. Thus far, she is no poster child of any worthwhile values and morals.
As an independent, I must state again and again that I will not consider voting for anyone D until Pelosi is retired.

As much as I hate Pelosi, if Democrats elected another leader, that person would be even farther to the left than her.

 

[Deuce]

Having a wall will not increase problems, it decreases problems. That's why we need the wall.

It will cost a lot of money and accomplish very little. Why do you support that?

 

[Moderate Right]

And if Mexico ends up paying for it as Trump said they would, you will be absolutely correct.

The wall pays for itself. Therefore, no one actually pays for the wall. Not Mexico. Not the US. Remember how you guys said the Mueller investigation pays for itself? Ditto this.

 

[Irwin Corey]

We only take pesos now because the government doesn't allow us to use dollars because of the laundering problems.

You can't take dollars into a bank to deposit them or use them to buy anything around town, unless you are at the border or within the border area.

I was visiting Nuevo Vallarta.

 

[trouble13]

That's the best place to start. If you don't stop demand all you're really doing is forcing others to become creative at circumventing obstacles.



It doesn't mean that at all; it's a combination of both. If you're seeking asylum the idea is you want to be out of your previous predicament but also be able to sustain yourself. There are likely many who are just economic migrants, but that doesn't make them any more greedy than the folks who provide the work. If you're an employer you're always looking to increase profits by cutting operating expenses; labor is one of the biggest ones so that's where many choose to cut costs. You make it sound as if they're just coming to take money, but those who are working are enabled by those who provide them work; it's an exchange and not someone just taking.

If the argument is that if you crackdown on hiring illegals it will reduce the flow at the border you are admitting they are coming here motivated by greed.

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[Cardinal]

The wall pays for itself. Therefore, no one actually pays for the wall. Not Mexico. Not the US. Remember how you guys said the Mueller investigation pays for itself? Ditto this.

Well somebody's got to pay for it in the first place. Let that be Mexico and then we can test your theory that it will "pay for itself." But I'm not willing to use one dollar that could be used for education, infrastructure and health services just to test that theory.

 

[Cordelier]

We have a lot of Americans who work "under the table". It is an epidemic. That's just a fact of life and it is a fact of life that people will come here illegally so they can work under the table. We need to do the things you mentioned AND build the wall. A wall would not actually be necessary if Democrats were serious about stopping illegal immigration, particularly California Democrats. But, they aren't serious about stopping illegal immigration.

You've got to look at the bigger picture here... our 160 million-person Labor Force is competing with China's 800 million and India's 500 million and the EU's 240 million. The only thing that has kept us on top so far has been our technological edge.... but that's been steadily eroding - information is easier and easier to obtain and with it, comes technological growth. We can't maintain that edge in the same way anymore... if we want to stay competitive, we need all the bodies we can get. If we shut out the world and keep people from coming here, all we're essentially doing is cutting off our nose to spite our face.

 

[Dittohead not!]

We do lots of things in government that do not "fully solve our long term problems" - probably most of what government does don't fully solve the problem.

In fact, many things the government does actually makes the problem worse.

 

[Irwin Corey]

People that bring up Ellis Island forget that a lot of people were turned away there for disease or other reasons.

I said:

When my ancestors came from Italy they were greeted at Elis Island, while that was no picnic they were treated humanely and efficiently; they were scrutinized and those that were deemed undesirable were sent back.

It was not a free for all, and everybody that came in was documented.

Really? WOP stood for "With Out Papers".

 

[Moderate Right]

If you see holding people to their promises as "attacking" them, then so be it.

But you hate Trump. You want to attack him for every little thing. That's all you care about. To you it is nothing but pure 100% partisanship. You care about nothing else. You are obsessed with anything anti-Trump.

 

[Cardinal]

But you hate Trump. You want to attack him for every little thing. That's all you care about. To you it is nothing but pure 100% partisanship. You care about nothing else. You are obsessed with anything anti-Trump.

Mm hm. Trump said countless times that Mexico would pay for the wall. In case you haven't caught on yet, I'm not going to let that go.

 

[Irwin Corey]

That's all you care about. To you it is nothing but pure 100% partisanship. You care about nothing else. You are obsessed with anything anti-Trump.

You're on the other side of the fence but the same can be said of you.

 

[Moderate Right]

It will cost a lot of money and accomplish very little. Why do you support that?

Because Democrats have totally and completely convinced me that it would accomplish a LOT. Even Pelosi thinks the wall will work and therefore deems it "immoral". Therefore, your argument is incorrect.

 

[Dittohead not!]

This looks like a stalemate to me. I can't imagine Pelosi and Trump being able to compromise on an issue like the border wall.

So, look for a government "shutdown" in the future.

 

[Moderate Right]

Well somebody's got to pay for it in the first place. Let that be Mexico and then we can test your theory that it will "pay for itself." But I'm not willing to use one dollar that could be used for education, infrastructure and health services just to test that theory.

Doesn't matter who pays for it in the first place. If it winds up costing 30 billion and we save 30 billion, then it has cost zero, just as in the Mueller investigation, right?

 

[ElChupacabra]

If the argument is that if you crackdown on hiring illegals it will reduce the flow at the border you are admitting they are coming here motivated by greed.

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Interesting word choice. I don't claim to know every migrant's motivation, but the poor generally come because they have very limited means of supporting themselves in their countries so they leave when they cannot provide for their families.

 

[cpwill]

Well somebody's got to pay for it in the first place. Let that be Mexico and then we can test your theory that it will "pay for itself." But I'm not willing to use one dollar that could be used for education, infrastructure and health services just to test that theory.

1. A wall is infrastructure. Simply because it's become a highly charged political item does not change this.

2. A wall might pay for itself over a lengthy period of time.

3. A wall is not likely to pay for itself within a reasonable period of time. The defeat mechanism for a wall is a ladder, so, while it will stop some illegal immigration across the border, it is unlikely to stop all of it.


A more serious issue would be fixing our Visa Overstay issue. A better issue would be mandating E-Verify, and putting teeth into enforcement. Instead we are yelling at each other and adopting stupid moral-pretensions over an only semi-effective symbol.