Peace Treaty?

[Rogue Valley]

The word from Istanbul is that Ukraine and Russia have agreed in principle on a peace treaty.

No details are available at this time, but Zelenskyy and Putin supposedly will meet and sign the treaty in Istanbul at a date to be agreed upon.

Last week Zelenskyy said that any negotiated treaty would be put before the Ukrainian people in a referendum.

 

[ChickenTendies]

No treaty will be signed before at least the Russian annexation of the East and Odessa. Anything less is unacceptable to Moscow's geopolitical goals and national security.

 

[Rogue Valley]

No treaty will be signed before at least the Russian annexation of the East and Odessa. Anything less is unacceptable to Moscow's geopolitical goals and national security.

Says the great grandson of Mao.

 

[ChickenTendies]

Says the great grandson of Mao.

And how does that have anything to do with the topic at hand? Whataboutism

 

[MaryP]

Sounds hopeful. First steps, anyway?

 

[Quag]

No treaty will be signed before at least the Russian annexation of the East and Odessa. Anything less is unacceptable to Moscow's geopolitical goals and national security.

Then Russia will suffer more and more losses and will become a 3rd world country until it completely falls apart

 

[Juin]

The word from Istanbul is that Ukraine and Russia have agreed in principle on a peace treaty.

No details are available at this time, but Zelenskyy and Putin supposedly will meet and sign the treaty in Istanbul at a date to be agreed upon.

Last week Zelenskyy said that any negotiated treaty would be put before the Ukrainian people in a referendum.

As long as it is no more "frozen" wars. There is no point revisiting the whole thing ten years down the road. In my opinion a critical piece in the conflict is missing: the EU and US. Turkey lacks the military and economic might to oversee a conflict in which the US and EU are keenly interested parties

 

[Lutherf]

The word from Istanbul is that Ukraine and Russia have agreed in principle on a peace treaty.

No details are available at this time, but Zelenskyy and Putin supposedly will meet and sign the treaty in Istanbul at a date to be agreed upon.

Last week Zelenskyy said that any negotiated treaty would be put before the Ukrainian people in a referendum.

The only thing I've seen on this is a Tweet, purportedly from Israel, that says the draft is advanced far enough that Putin may be willing to talk to Zelensky. Based on the tweet, there is still disagreement about Crimea.

 

[watsup]

No treaty will be signed before at least the Russian annexation of the East and Odessa. Anything less is unacceptable to Moscow's geopolitical goals and national security.

“National security”. *L* Says another one of Putin’s Pals.

 

[Centrist]

I am standing by to defend Zelensky against the army of fanatics that will still want war if a deal will be made.

however, Crimea is a big one. I won't dismiss it as easy with a done deal. How is Zelensky going to appear in front of his people after the rhetoric that he showed if he gives up Crimea?

@ChickenTendies

I thought they suspended you. You see how nice is to be part of the western world. You get to come back and have your voice heard. If we lived in your system you would be in the gulag now for your opposite stances.

 

[Exquisitor]

I wouldn't talk to them, Putin is a war criminal.

You're winning, take them.

 

[watsup]

If this happens, Putin will declare victory. He will say that it is all he wanted all along and the war could have been avoided if Zelensky had just agreed to it in the first place, and his Russian subjects will declare him the great hero of the state, and he will demand an immediate end to all sanctions.

 

[ChickenTendies]

“National security”. *L* Says another one of Putin’s Pals.

Unsubstantiated (and false) accusations

 

[Juin]

If this happens, Putin will declare victory. He will say that it is all he wanted all along and the war could have been avoided if Zelensky had just agreed to it in the first place, and his Russian subjects will declare him the great hero of the state, and he will demand an immediate end to all sanctions.

This whole thing is suspicious. It looks to me more like time out, than game over. It just doesnt make sense. If momentum is behind Ukraine, why is she settling? If Russia is on the ropes, why allow him to be saved by the bell? This is fishy.

A real peace treaty is when both sides have given their best shot. I do not see that that is the case here. At least from the Ukrainian case

 

[MaryP]

Russia is still hanging out around Kyiv, and still brutalising Maripoul. It is still occupying most of the southern coast almost to Odessa. I don't hear this in the 'draft,' but I don't think Russia has any intention of walking away without a land bridge to Crimea and probably most of the coast. All the other places it is still invading or holding territory outside the Donbas just ties down the Ukranian army from going there in strength and driving the Russians out. Dammit.

 

[The Mark]

Then Russia will suffer more and more losses and will become a 3rd world country until it completely falls apart

"3rd world country" doesn't mean anything now, and when it did it was ****ing dark.

However, I agree that Russia has long ago lost any advantage they might have thought they could gain as a result of reality hitting them in the face.

IMO Putin should agree to give back even Crimea to get out of this.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Russia is still hanging out around Kyiv, and still brutalising Maripoul. It is still occupying most of the southern coast almost to Odessa. I don't hear this in the 'draft,' but I don't think Russia has any intention of walking away without a land bridge to Crimea and probably most of the coast. All the other places it is still invading or holding territory outside the Donbas just ties down the Ukranian army from going there in strength and driving the Russians out. Dammit.

As some already knew, the real reason for the invasion is about Russia seizing Ukraine's oil and gas.

(From "Price Wars" by Rupert Russell)

 

[MaryP]

As some already knew, the real reason for the invasion is about Russia seizing Ukraine's oil and gas.

(From "Price Wars" by Rupert Russell)

View attachment 67383604

Wars used to be about money. Now they're about fossil fuels.

 

[The Mark]

Wars used to be about money. Now they're about fossil fuels.

They've been about fossil fuels for awhile now, and part of that is because the value of money is connected to them.

Which is, IMO, why we need to try and get alternatives in place.

Including nuclear power plants. Fission plants.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

They've been about fossil fuels for awhile now, and part of that is because the value of money is connected to them.

Which is, IMO, why we need to try and get alternatives in place.

Including nuclear power plants. Fission plants.

Developing THORIUM fueled fission plants would be a remarkable leap forward.
For one thing, the Earth has well over a thousand years worth of thorium and its supply is found almost everywhere.
For another, due to its design and the physics involved, thorium nukes CANNOT melt down, it is impossible.

 

[JANFU]

No treaty will be signed before at least the Russian annexation of the East and Odessa. Anything less is unacceptable to Moscow's geopolitical goals and national security.

I recall you were unaware of successful Ukrainian offensives many days old at that, where they bagged a lot of Russians

Now you know what Putin will accept.

 

[ChickenTendies]

I recall you were unaware of successful Ukrainian offensives many days old at that, where they bagged a lot of Russians

Yes, I do remember the successful offensives where they captured abandoned villages not even on the map. Truly world shattering.

Now you know what Putin will accept.

 

[JANFU]

Yes, I do remember the successful offensives where they captured abandoned villages not even on the map. Truly world shattering.

Where do you think all this came from.
Villages.
DAMAGE DESTROYED
Another month and it will hit 30 K Russians KIA.
The Russians know they are getting pounded, and heavier kit will be in Ukraine within days.
You know what that mean = More Russians KIA
Why I bet you can get discounted tours in Russia.
Help the Motherland.

 

[JANFU]

Russia is still hanging out around Kyiv, and still brutalising Maripoul. It is still occupying most of the southern coast almost to Odessa. I don't hear this in the 'draft,' but I don't think Russia has any intention of walking away without a land bridge to Crimea and probably most of the coast. All the other places it is still invading or holding territory outside the Donbas just ties down the Ukranian army from going there in strength and driving the Russians out. Dammit.

Russia cannot hold the land bridge, a long line of Russians protecting and area that size from attack. The Russian units are worn, tired, undermanned, and a lot of destroyed kit
Zelenskyy will never agree to a Russian land bridge.

 

[MaryP]

Russia cannot hold the land bridge, a long line of Russians protecting and area that size from attack. The Russian units are worn, tired, undermanned, and a lot of destroyed kit
Zelenskyy will never agree to a Russian land bridge.

Janfu, the Russians continue to fight for Maripoul. Why, if they do not intend to keep it?