Parkland Shooting commission suggests arming teachers.

[Rich2018]

Except against criminals and actual terrorists. Are they going to hand in their guns? Kinda strongly doubt it.

British police seem to manage with having specialist forearms squads.

 

[Rich2018]

That was only one...

It only takes ONE !!!

 

[Rich2018]

Well yes, the one thing that can beat a gun in a fight is another gun.

How abbout making it so the other guy can't have a gun in the first place.


Isn't that better ?

 

[ttwtt78640]

Yes...except a butcher with his knives is likely to be less lethal than a "well armed citizen" with assault rifles, hi-capacity mags etc etc


Giving people guns is bad.

More guns = more shootings

Training people how to use the guns just means that those who decide to kill as many people as possible will kill more than they otherwise would.
Learn to control their breathing, take up a gun firing position, proper sight alignment...
Yeah just the kind of things I want a total stranger with a gun to become proficient at.

The problem with that (bolded above) assertion is that statistics show otherwise. The number of guns in the US has increased since the mid 1990s and yet the gun death/injury rate has not.

 

[Rucker61]

How abbout making it so the other guy can't have a gun in the first place.


Isn't that better ?

Can't be done.

 

[flogger]

Can't be done.

Of course it can as the rest of the civilised world bears witness. They have left that 18th century savagery behind them and as a consequence far more of their citizens get to live out their lives without the threat of instant violent death. Why can't you ?

 

[Xelor]

From the rubric article:

The draft report is more than 400 pages long and remains a work in progress. The final version is due to the governor by the first of 2019.​

Let's see what be the nature of the final report's methodology and recommendations based on that methodology.

 

[Maccabee]

That the UK police are so much better and are in much less need of carrying lethal means should not be a deterrent to the USA


Why can't US police and US society strive to rise up to British levels ?

Because the UK has a different culture and lifestyle than most of the rest of the world do.

 

[Maccabee]

Like Stephen Paddock...he was law abiding....until the day he decided to kill as many people as possible.

He is the extremely rare exception to the rule.

How does more guns = less gun crime ????


It's an insane assertion to make.

Then why don't we have mass shootings taking place at police stations, gun ranges, stores, and shows?

 

[Rucker61]

Of course it can as the rest of the civilised world bears witness. They have left that 18th century savagery behind them and as a consequence far more of their citizens get to live out their lives without the threat of instant violent death. Why can't you ?

No other country in the civilized world has instant death, or are they just not afraid of knives, cricket bats, cars and terrorists' bombs?

 

[TurtleDude]

Like Stephen Paddock...he was law abiding....until the day he decided to kill as many people as possible.


How does more guns = less gun crime ????


It's an insane assertion to make.

you're wrong again-the minute he started preparing to kill others he was no longer Law abiding.

try again

 

[Rich2018]

you're wrong again-the minute he started preparing to kill others he was no longer Law abiding.

try again

But the point you refuse to understand that you would allow Paddock, and people like him, to have guns because he was law abiding.


Then he (with his legally acquired guns as a law abiding citizen) decided NOT to be law abiding.


But he already had his guns (as a law abiding citizen).


Are you proposing that US law enforcement should acquire psychic ability to see into the future when deciding who should be allowed to own guns ?
Try again.

 

[TurtleDude]

But the point you refuse to understand that you would allow Paddock, and people like him, to have guns because he was law abiding.


Then he (with his legally acquired guns as a law abiding citizen) decided NOT to be law abiding.


But he already had his guns (as a law abiding citizen).


Are you proposing that US law enforcement should acquire psychic ability to see into the future when deciding who should be allowed to own guns ?
Try again.

well you have admitted that the second amendment protects that. So why the mental masturbation?

 

[Rich2018]

The problem with that (bolded above) assertion is that statistics show otherwise. The number of guns in the US has increased since the mid 1990s and yet the gun death/injury rate has not.

There's actually a thread on here showing that gun deaths are rising to record levels.


The UK has very few guns in private ownership....and consequently it has VERY low gun crime
British police are forced to kill only a tiny fraction of the number of people that trigger happy US police kill.


So yes:

More guns = more shootings
Less guns = Less shootings

 

[Rich2018]

well you have admitted that the second amendment protects that. So why the mental masturbation?

In other words...oh yes you're totally right.

Restricting guns to the "law abiding" will not prevent future "Stephen Paddocks"....


....and yes you're right. The 2nd amendment will never be repealed so you're free to masturbate all over your guns.
You still lost the debate.


Only gun control can fix America's horrendous gun problem.
Sadly that will probably never happen.
10,000+ people are destined to die every year .... but you don't care as long as you get to keep your phallic symbols.

 

[Rich2018]

Can't be done.

Excuses # 3a and 3b

 

[Rich2018]

Because the UK has a different culture and lifestyle than most of the rest of the world do.

So ?

Ban guns in the USA and reverse the gun culture here.


What part of this is so hard to understand.


You're just another victim of excuses # 3a and 3b.

 

[Rich2018]

He is the extremely rare exception to the rule....

What's your criteria for "rare" ?

How many examples of previously law abiding citizens deciding to kill people at random do you need to reverse your opinion ?

...then why don't we have mass shootings taking place at police stations, gun ranges, stores, and shows?

Because mass shooters are cowards...they go for defenseless targets where they can kill more people.
Churches and schools being common targets.

 

[TurtleDude]

In other words...oh yes you're totally right.

Restricting guns to the "law abiding" will not prevent future "Stephen Paddocks"....


....and yes you're right. The 2nd amendment will never be repealed so you're free to masturbate all over your guns.
You still lost the debate.


Only gun control can fix America's horrendous gun problem.
Sadly that will probably never happen.
10,000+ people are destined to die every year .... but you don't care as long as you get to keep your phallic symbols.

you are arguing with yourself again but when you start with the penis bit-you have proven that you have no logical arguments--all that it proves is you hate gun owners because of politics

fallacy #4-the Phallic fetish nonsense

 

[TurtleDude]

So ?

Ban guns in the USA and reverse the gun culture here.


What part of this is so hard to understand.


You're just another victim of excuses # 3a and 3b.

Fallacy #6-demanding to do something you admit cannot be done

 

[Rich2018]

you are arguing with yourself again but when you start with the penis bit-you have proven that you have no logical arguments--all that it proves is you hate gun owners because of politics

fallacy #4-the Phallic fetish nonsense

Well you started the sexual connotations with your "mental masturbation".

Your arguments are well known.
I coded them into #1, #2, and #3.

You seem to embrace all three discredited excuses to keep guns.


You have some psychological need for your guns...to mask perceived inadequacies
They are your male equivalent of a "boob job".

 

[Rich2018]

Fallacy #6-demanding to do something you admit cannot be done

That's a logic fallacy ?

Maybe, but it's not a moral fallacy. Arguing fr the right thing is never wrong.

 

[TurtleDude]

Well you started the sexual connotations with your "mental masturbation".

Your arguments are well known.
I coded them into #1, #2, and #3.

You seem to embrace all three discredited excuses to keep guns.


You have some psychological need for your guns...to mask perceived inadequacies
They are your male equivalent of a "boob job".

you're spewing the standard gun hater nonsense. stop pretending your anti gun agenda is anything other than a cultural and political hatred of conservative gun owners

 

[Rich2018]

you're spewing the standard gun hater nonsense. stop pretending your anti gun agenda is anything other than a cultural and political hatred of conservative gun owners

I actually know several gun owners and don't hate them one bit.


I think this is a central element of your position though. You actually think that people who want to ban your guns are acting out of some hatred for you and others like you.
It's like they're trying to steal your flag.
They're not, they're responding to an endless and frequent catalog of shootings


I would say to you, stop pretending you have some "need" for your guns. You don't.


I am quite willing to accept that in all likelihood, you will never use your guns in a criminal manner. But every day we're reminded of how other people do.
Statistically there'll be a couple more mass shootings before the end of the year.


You know there's a problem...you refuse to accept any solution that you don't like.

 

[TurtleDude]

I actually know several gun owners and don't hate them one bit.


I think this is a central element of your position though. You actually think that people who want to ban your guns are acting out of some hatred for you and others like you.
It's like they're trying to steal your flag.
They're not, they're responding to an endless and frequent catalog of shootings


I would say to you, stop pretending you have some "need" for your guns. You don't.


I am quite willing to accept that in all likelihood, you will never use your guns in a criminal manner. But every day we're reminded of how other people do.
Statistically there'll be a couple more mass shootings before the end of the year.


You know there's a problem...you refuse to accept any solution that you don't like.

I refuse to accept "solutions" that are more likely to harass honest people than impede criminals

I refuse to accept unconstitutional solutions