Palin will win 2012 whether libs want it or not!

[cpwill]

and that crash is included in the average annualized returns i discussed.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

and that crash is included in the average annualized returns i discussed.

How much has someone made on an annual basis if they put $10 000 in the DOW, Nasdaq and SP 500 in 1998 to now?

 

[teamosil]

How much has someone made on an annual basis if they put $10 000 in the DOW, Nasdaq and SP 500 in 1998 to now?

From the end of 1998 until today the DOW is up about 9%, so $10 would now be $10,900. That is somewhere around 0.8% return per year. Worse than you get in a savings account. They would have been down if they sold any time between september of 2008 and July of 2009.

 

[USA_1]

in fact it was. that's the downside of living in a 'flat' world; the US can be threatened by increasingly smaller groups and fused networks.



they are low as crap; people are fleeing to 'stability' en masse, and the central banks are artificially depressing the price of sovereign debt. unless you want to loan money to Greece; when you might get a decent return (assuming you get one).

but yeah, you can easily quadruple your cash. between Jan 1 1980 and Dec 31 2009 the average return from the stock market was 12.88 percent. figure for combined annual growth (for example, if you lose 50% one year, and you grow 50% the next, you have really lost 25%), and then figure for constant dollars by accounting for inflation and that number drops to 7.52. figure for a post-Reagan-tax-cut era by bumping your start date up to 1982, and that number climbs to 7.98%.

5,000 is the current cap for an individual retirement account; it grows tax free if you put it in a roth, which saves us from having to do darn ole tax-figuring. $416.66 a month gets you 5 grand a year. Invested from the time one gets out of college and starts working full time at 22 until one is 65, that gives you a final nest egg of $1,865,133.28 (in constant dollars; if you want to account for standard inflation over the same time period, the final figure comes out to $5,451,120.35). If they push back the retirement age to 70 (as they probably will), that leaves you with a nest egg of $2,806,804.96. Put that into a more conservative investment, annuity, whatever, that see's you 5% a year, and you are bringing home a little over $140,000 a year in constant dollars. if you still choose to retire, you are getting an income of $93,256; well well well over today's average income. Incidentally, your contributions total out at $240,000, which means that your money has either multiplied 7 times, or 11 times, depending on when you chose to retire.



average total cost for government entitlements (medicare and social security) for a senior as of 2007 was $27,289. Assuming the lower return (that you retire earlier) and assuming that both of those programs completely go away and the senior has to completely replace them, that still leaves them with a left-over annual income of $65,967.

and that's not counting for whether or not they chose to start a health savings account, which frankly, we need to move into.

it's only 'impossible' for those who refuse to live responsibly.

I can see you have no experience with investing in the real world. Look at returns of mutual funds in the last 20 years.

Fund Name (Inception Date)
Ticker
3
Months
(%)
1
Year
(%)
3
Year
(%)
5
Year
(%)
10
Year
(%)
Expense
Ratio1 07/07/2010
Blended Group
Click Column Header to Sort
Target-Date 2005 Fund
Vanguard Target Retirement 2005 (10-27-2003) n/a 0.77 12.89 0.43 3.32 * 4.22 0.362 11.10
Target 2005 Composite Index n/a 0.92 13.21 0.59 3.50 n/a n/a n/a
Target-Date 2010 Fund
Vanguard Target Retirement 2010 (06-07-2006) n/a 0.34 14.78 -1.22 * 2.76 0.352 20.54
Target 2010 Composite Index n/a 0.50 15.10 -1.12 n/a n/a n/a n/a
Target-Date 2015 Fund
Vanguard Target Retirement 2015 (10-27-2003) n/a -0.04 15.86 -2.58 2.73 * 4.05 0.352 11.24
Target 2015 Composite Index n/a 0.12 16.21 -2.53 2.86 n/a n/a n/a
Target-Date 2020 Fund
Vanguard Target Retirement 2020 (06-07-2006) n/a -0.30 16.75 -3.74 * 1.37 0.362 19.68
Target 2020 Composite Index n/a -0.13 17.10 -3.71 n/a n/a n/a n/a
Target-Date 2025 Fund
Vanguard Target Retirement 2025 (10-27-2003) n/a -0.58 17.53 -4.99 1.96 * 3.63 0.372 11.08
Target 2025 Composite Index n/a -0.38 18.00 -4.91 2.10 n/a n/a n/a
Target-Date 2030 Fund
Vanguard Target Retirement 2030 (06-07-2006) n/a -0.77 18.40 -6.17 * -0.03 0.372 18.75
Target 2030 Composite Index n/a -0.63 18.89 -6.11 n/a n/a n/a n/a
Target-Date 2035 Fund
Vanguard Target Retirement 2035 (10-27-2003) n/a -1.00 18.95 -6.88 1.54 * 3.64 0.382 11.20
Target 2035 Composite Index n/a -0.90 19.51 -6.81 1.72 n/a n/a n/a
Target-Date 2040 Fund
Vanguard Target Retirement 2040 (06-07-2006) n/a -1.05 18.91 -6.80 * -0.44 0.382 18.35
Target 2040 Composite Index n/a -0.90 19.51 -6.81 n/a n/a

 

[LiberalAvenger]

I can see you have no experience with investing in the real world. Look at returns of mutual funds in the last 20 years.

Fund Name (Inception Date)
Ticker
3
Months
(%)
1
Year
(%)
3
Year
(%)
5
Year
(%)
10
Year
(%)
Expense
Ratio1 07/07/2010
Blended Group
Click Column Header to Sort
Target-Date 2005 Fund
Vanguard Target Retirement 2005 (10-27-2003) n/a 0.77 12.89 0.43 3.32 * 4.22 0.362 11.10
Target 2005 Composite Index n/a 0.92 13.21 0.59 3.50 n/a n/a n/a
Target-Date 2010 Fund
Vanguard Target Retirement 2010 (06-07-2006) n/a 0.34 14.78 -1.22 * 2.76 0.352 20.54
Target 2010 Composite Index n/a 0.50 15.10 -1.12 n/a n/a n/a n/a
Target-Date 2015 Fund
Vanguard Target Retirement 2015 (10-27-2003) n/a -0.04 15.86 -2.58 2.73 * 4.05 0.352 11.24
Target 2015 Composite Index n/a 0.12 16.21 -2.53 2.86 n/a n/a n/a
Target-Date 2020 Fund
Vanguard Target Retirement 2020 (06-07-2006) n/a -0.30 16.75 -3.74 * 1.37 0.362 19.68
Target 2020 Composite Index n/a -0.13 17.10 -3.71 n/a n/a n/a n/a
Target-Date 2025 Fund
Vanguard Target Retirement 2025 (10-27-2003) n/a -0.58 17.53 -4.99 1.96 * 3.63 0.372 11.08
Target 2025 Composite Index n/a -0.38 18.00 -4.91 2.10 n/a n/a n/a
Target-Date 2030 Fund
Vanguard Target Retirement 2030 (06-07-2006) n/a -0.77 18.40 -6.17 * -0.03 0.372 18.75
Target 2030 Composite Index n/a -0.63 18.89 -6.11 n/a n/a n/a n/a
Target-Date 2035 Fund
Vanguard Target Retirement 2035 (10-27-2003) n/a -1.00 18.95 -6.88 1.54 * 3.64 0.382 11.20
Target 2035 Composite Index n/a -0.90 19.51 -6.81 1.72 n/a n/a n/a
Target-Date 2040 Fund
Vanguard Target Retirement 2040 (06-07-2006) n/a -1.05 18.91 -6.80 * -0.44 0.382 18.35
Target 2040 Composite Index n/a -0.90 19.51 -6.81 n/a n/a

What does it mean in English?

 

[USA_1]

What does it mean in English?

Tried to delete it. It didn't delete. Sorry.

 

[cpwill]

since 1998 we've seen an average return of 5.16%; 2.91 if you account for combined annualized growth. :shrug: which is fine, given that it is a relatively shorter period. you don't get rich in 10 years unless you are riding the right 10 years in the right ways and then you get out at the right time; tricky feats for the layman. you get rich in 40+ years by investing over time and taking the highs with the lows. and as a matter of fact i was taught this by a friggin genius when it comes to investment; guy was a self-made millionaire by the time he was 16. :shrug: not that it matters, it's a simple system. live debt free except for your house. pay your house off early. save 5 grand a year towards retirement per working member of the household, 2 grand a year towards your kids education (coverdell ESA's), and throw extra (if you have significant amounts) into a health savings account for when you need it down the road (cause medicare is changing soon and fast).

the stock market, over time, will do you better than bonds and CD's. :shrug: but if i did do bonds, I would probably at least do TIPS. no magic debtbegone fairy is coming.

 

[Lakryte]

I highly doubt that Sarah Palin will be able to win. I personally agree with much of what she says, but she really wont be able to win against Barack Obama. I would rather have her than Obama any day, but I do not think Palin is the best candidate at all.

 

[Deuce]

I highly doubt that Sarah Palin will be able to win. I personally agree with much of what she says, but she really wont be able to win against Barack Obama. I would rather have her than Obama any day, but I do not think Palin is the best candidate at all.

She doesn't actually say anything, don't know if you'd noticed that. Her speeches are completely empty of substance. She'd make a great motivational speaker, telling people what they want to hear, making them feel better, but other than that...

 

[TennesseeRain]

I really like her. The more the msm and others mock her the stronger she becomes. I also like the fact that unlike obama, she can complete a sentence on her own without a teleprompter. As for experience,she has much more than the community org in chief.

Why do you repeat things that are blatant exaggerations? How exactly does it help your cause to say that Obama can't complete a sentence without a teleprompter when obviously he can and does do so quite frequently? How does it help when you refer to him as the community organizer in chief when his experience is much more than that? Would it help if I refered to Sarah Palin as "nothing more than a former beauty queen in a sparsely populated state?" Or perhaps, "nothing more than a journalism major from god knows what college who can finish a sentence without a teleprompter, but her sentences last for ten minutes and make no sense. Also" *wink* *wink*?

 

[cpwill]

She doesn't actually say anything, don't know if you'd noticed that. Her speeches are completely empty of substance. She'd make a great motivational speaker, telling people what they want to hear, making them feel better, but other than that...

yeah..... how'd that work for Obama in 2008?

 

[TennesseeRain]

yeah..... how'd that work for Obama in 2008?

It worked great. He gave speeches outlining his plans. He had a website that outlined his plans. What he didn't have was a Facebook page that did nothing but mock the other side without offering up any real solutions.

 

[cpwill]

It worked great. He gave speeches outlining his plans. He had a website that outlined his plans. What he didn't have was a Facebook page that did nothing but mock the other side without offering up any real solutions.

:lol: the democrat platform in 2008 consisted of two words if you didn't count 'and'. vageury was his strategy.

I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views.
-Barack Obama

 

[TennesseeRain]

:lol: the democrat platform in 2008 consisted of two words if you didn't count 'and'. vageury was his strategy.

I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views.
-Barack Obama

And yet they still managed to win. That doesn't say much for the GOP now does it?

 

[German guy]

Palin becoming President is a rather frightening idea. I understand people like her, because she seems ... authentic and honest, I have to give her that, although I disagree with many of her stances. So I understand when many would like to have a drink with her. But President? I don't think she even remotely has the qualities and nerves required for that office. She'd probably even be more embarressing than Bush.

 

[TennesseeRain]

Palin becoming President is a rather frightening idea. I understand people like her, because she seems ... authentic and honest, I have to give her that, although I disagree with many of her stances. So I understand when many would like to have a drink with her. But President? I don't think she even remotely has the qualities and nerves required for that office. She'd probably even be more embarressing than Bush.

I'll assume that when you say "authentic and honest" you really mean "nasty bitch who deserves to be slapped up side the head" - otherwise, I have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[German guy]

I'll assume that when you say "authentic and honest" you really mean "nasty bitch who deserves to be slapped up side the head" - otherwise, I have no idea what you are talking about.

Ok, I was attempting to be diplomatic. I do think she needs to be slapped up side the head for her stances. But I was told violence is not a viable solution for conflicts, and not an appropriate means for handling political disagreement.

Maybe what I wanted to say is that she seems "down to earth" and I understand why people appreciate that. But this very "down to earth" is part of the problem that she isn't suited for a higher office too.

 

[TennesseeRain]

Ok, I was attempting to be diplomatic. I do think she needs to be slapped up side the head for her stances. But I was told violence is not a viable solution for conflicts, and not an appropriate means for handling political disagreement.

Maybe what I wanted to say is that she seems "down to earth" and I understand why people appreciate that. But this very "down to earth" is part of the problem that she isn't suited for a higher office too.

If by "down to earth" you mean "stuck up bitch who needs to be slapped up side the head" then you and I are in total agreement. Look. You seem like a nice enough guy and I'm sorry for busting on you, but here's my "why I hate that bitch, Sarah Palin" story:

During the convention speech, she stupidly said that being a small town mayor was like being a community organizer only with actual responsibilities. She slapped every community organizer in the face...every person who sacrificed a bigger paycheck to give back to their community...she smacked them with that statement. Here's the thing: Someone I loved dearly gave up that big paycheck at a ritzy law firm to be a community organizer. He was run over on the sidewalk while he stood outside of a community organizing project he had literally just seen to completion. He left behind a loving wife and two small children and a host of friends and family who will never be the same now that he is gone. She SPIT on his memory and his accomplishments with her words. She isn't "one of the people" she isn't "down to earth" she isn't "honest" --- She's a ****ing bitch who is too stupid to even know how stupid she is.

 

[German guy]

If by "down to earth" you mean "stuck up bitch who needs to be slapped up side the head" then you and I are in total agreement. Look. You seem like a nice enough guy and I'm sorry for busting on you, but here's my "why I hate that bitch, Sarah Palin" story:

During the convention speech, she stupidly said that being a small town mayor was like being a community organizer only with actual responsibilities. She slapped every community organizer in the face...every person who sacrificed a bigger paycheck to give back to their community...she smacked them with that statement. Here's the thing: Someone I loved dearly gave up that big paycheck at a ritzy law firm to be a community organizer. He was run over on the sidewalk while he stood outside of a community organizing project he had literally just seen to completion. He left behind a loving wife and two small children and a host of friends and family who will never be the same now that he is gone. She SPIT on his memory and his accomplishments with her words. She isn't "one of the people" she isn't "down to earth" she isn't "honest" --- She's a ****ing bitch who is too stupid to even know how stupid she is.

Fair enough, and I am sorry for your loss. I agree with you that downplaying the importance and value of community organizers is misplaced. I also find it incoherent when people who accused Obama of not being experienced enough approve of Palin at the same time. Obama may not be the most experienced politician, but compared to Palin, he is an old fox.

 

[TennesseeRain]

Fair enough, and I am sorry for your loss. I agree with you that downplaying the importance and value of community organizers is misplaced. I also find it incoherent when people who accused Obama of not being experienced enough approve of Palin at the same time. Obama may not be the most experienced politician, but compared to Palin, he is an old fox.

You are kind for accepting the brunt of my wrath toward this woman. Thank you for allowing me to vent without getting defensive. I'm sorry for being a ****head.

 

[cpwill]

And yet they still managed to win. That doesn't say much for the GOP now does it?

of course they managed to win. they ran against an administration that the public was excedingly tired of, and in the middle of it, the economy completely tanked in a manner that was seen as that administrations' fault. for the democrats, winning the 2008 election was like a boston marathon winner competing in the special olympics; your competition never has a chance.

 

[TennesseeRain]

of course they managed to win. they ran against an administration that the public was excedingly tired of, and in the middle of it, the economy completely tanked in a manner that was seen as that administrations' fault. for the democrats, winning the 2008 election was like a boston marathon winner competing in the special olympics; your competition never has a chance.

Um...not to put too fine a point on things, but Obama didn't run against Bush and his administration. He ran against John "country first" McCain. Bush was no where to be found during the campaign....you aren't blaming Bush for McCain's failures are you?

 

[cpwill]

If by "down to earth" you mean "stuck up bitch who needs to be slapped up side the head" then you and I are in total agreement. Look. You seem like a nice enough guy and I'm sorry for busting on you, but here's my "why I hate that bitch, Sarah Palin" story:

During the convention speech, she stupidly said that being a small town mayor was like being a community organizer only with actual responsibilities. She slapped every community organizer in the face...every person who sacrificed a bigger paycheck to give back to their community...she smacked them with that statement. Here's the thing: Someone I loved dearly gave up that big paycheck at a ritzy law firm to be a community organizer. He was run over on the sidewalk while he stood outside of a community organizing project he had literally just seen to completion. He left behind a loving wife and two small children and a host of friends and family who will never be the same now that he is gone. She SPIT on his memory and his accomplishments with her words. She isn't "one of the people" she isn't "down to earth" she isn't "honest" --- She's a ****ing bitch who is too stupid to even know how stupid she is.

uh. no she didn't. your friend did a good thing and life is ****ty and good people suffer too.

but no, being a community organizer is not like being a mayor. him being killed doesn't make what he did any greater or lesser in importance, or in measures of responsibility.

 

[cpwill]

Um...not to put too fine a point on things, but Obama didn't run against Bush and his administration.

are you trying to be funny or do you want me to really waste the next 10 minutes of my life going back and finding every campaign ad that they put out claiming that McCain would just be four more years of Bush?

hell, running against bush is their 2010 strategy, much less 2008. just like running against Obama/Pelosi is Republicans 2010 strategy, even though Obama isn't up for reelection yet.

 

[cpwill]

Fair enough, and I am sorry for your loss. I agree with you that downplaying the importance and value of community organizers is misplaced. I also find it incoherent when people who accused Obama of not being experienced enough approve of Palin at the same time. Obama may not be the most experienced politician, but compared to Palin, he is an old fox.

perhaps by 2012 he will have caught up considerably, but as of the time of the election certainly not. he had spent all of what - 15 minutes in the Senate? not equal to being a governor.