Palestinian unity government will recognize israel: Abbas

[TheDemSocialist]

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas signaled on Saturday that he remains committed to troubled U.S.-backed peace talks, saying that any unity government including Hamas would recognize Israel as a Jewish state — a major sticking point in negations.Abbas' comments come shortly after Israel suspended negotiations following the signing of a unity agreement between rival Palestinian political factions.
"The government would be under my command and my policy," Abbas told senior leaders of the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) at his presidential headquarters in the West Bank city of Ramallah. "Its purview will be what happens domestically. I recognize Israel, and it would recognize Israel. I reject violence and terrorism," he said.
But Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu rejected talks with such a government.
"That's the oldest trick in the book. It's called the front office-back gambit," he said, in which "shady organizations" put forward "smooth-talking frontmen — the men in suits," Netanyahu said in an interview with MSNBC on Thursday. "We will not sit and negotiate with a Palestinian government that is backed by Hamas in which Hamas has effective share of power," Netanyahu said.

Read more @: Palestinian unity government will recognize Israel: Abbas | Al Jazeera America

Hmm mixed statements coming from Abbas and Hamas. At one point he states that the unified government will recognize Israel as a Jewish state but then Hamas states that they will not recognize Israel still.. Hopefully the unified government can figure out their issues. I hope at the very least they state they will recognize Israel.

 

[ido_]

Read more @: Palestinian unity government will recognize Israel: Abbas | Al Jazeera America

Hmm mixed statements coming from Abbas and Hamas. At one point he states that the unified government will recognize Israel as a Jewish state but then Hamas states that they will not recognize Israel still.. Hopefully the unified government can figure out their issues. I hope at the very least they state they will recognize Israel. [/FONT][/COLOR]

Hamas has made it clear over and over again and repeated it in the last few days that they will not recognize Israel, that they are willing to accept Palestinian state in 67 borders (but not recognize an Israeli one in 67 borders). The big challenge this government will have is not a recognition of Israel, it is stopping rocket fire on Israel, With Hamas and Islamic Jihad in power and a part of the PLO mechanisms any attack these organizations will launch against Israel is an attack by the official Palestinian government on Israel, on such circumstances Israel can not sit on the negotiation table no matter if the other side recognize her or not.

 

[washunut]

Read more @: Palestinian unity government will recognize Israel: Abbas | Al Jazeera America

Hmm mixed statements coming from Abbas and Hamas. At one point he states that the unified government will recognize Israel as a Jewish state but then Hamas states that they will not recognize Israel still.. Hopefully the unified government can figure out their issues. I hope at the very least they state they will recognize Israel. [/FONT][/COLOR]

Seems like it would make sense to have a time out regarding any talks. Let the Palestinian people have their vote. If Hamas is elected to represent them, then we know there is no basis for discussion.

I think this is why Kerry is pushing to keeping to keep the process moving. He knows that Hamas will win many seats in any government, if not majority. Similar to what has happened to Lebanon with Hezbollah. He seems intent on pushing Israel into a corner, then when Hamas gets elected say it is your problem.

 

[washunut]

Read more @: Palestinian unity government will recognize Israel: Abbas | Al Jazeera America

Hmm mixed statements coming from Abbas and Hamas. At one point he states that the unified government will recognize Israel as a Jewish state but then Hamas states that they will not recognize Israel still.. Hopefully the unified government can figure out their issues. I hope at the very least they state they will recognize Israel. [/FONT][/COLOR]

Seems like it would make sense to have a time out regarding any talks. Let the Palestinian people have their vote. If Hamas is elected to represent them, then we know there is no basis for discussion.

I think this is why Kerry is pushing to keeping to keep the process moving. He knows that Hamas will win many seats in any government, if not majority. Similar to what has happened to Lebanon with Hezbollah. He seems intent on pushing Israel into a corner, then when Hamas gets elected say it is your problem.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

Seems like it would make sense to have a time out regarding any talks. Let the Palestinian people have their vote. If Hamas is elected to represent them, then we know there is no basis for discussion.

I think this is why Kerry is pushing to keeping to keep the process moving. He knows that Hamas will win many seats in any government, if not majority. Similar to what has happened to Lebanon with Hezbollah. He seems intent on pushing Israel into a corner, then when Hamas gets elected say it is your problem.

I dont think Hamas will win majority of the seats. As the situation in the Gaza strip has gotten worse, and more Palestinians have refused violent resistance, I remember seeing several polls last year and year that they have lost support and even the majority of support in Gaza.

 

[gunner]

Read more @: Palestinian unity government will recognize Israel: Abbas | Al Jazeera America

Hmm mixed statements coming from Abbas and Hamas. At one point he states that the unified government will recognize Israel as a Jewish state but then Hamas states that they will not recognize Israel still.. Hopefully the unified government can figure out their issues. I hope at the very least they state they will recognize Israel. [/FONT][/COLOR]

That should already be a given, that it's not, illuminates the difficulty ahead. Let's play a hypothetical game, and you run me through how you feel the discussion over such an issue would pan out?

Paul

 

[washunut]

I dont think Hamas will win majority of the seats. As the situation in the Gaza strip has gotten worse, and more Palestinians have refused violent resistance, I remember seeing several polls last year and year that they have lost support and even the majority of support in Gaza.[/QUO[/I]

You may be correct. It would seem to put any further negotiations, such as they were until after the elections.

 

[ido_]

I dont think Hamas will win majority of the seats. As the situation in the Gaza strip has gotten worse, and more Palestinians have refused violent resistance, I remember seeing several polls last year and year that they have lost support and even the majority of support in Gaza.

You think Hamas will allow fair elections under their rule? Thats laughable. You think Hamas would go to elections if they knew it would mean they will lose?

 

[PeteEU]

Read more @: Palestinian unity government will recognize Israel: Abbas | Al Jazeera America

Hmm mixed statements coming from Abbas and Hamas. At one point he states that the unified government will recognize Israel as a Jewish state but then Hamas states that they will not recognize Israel still.. Hopefully the unified government can figure out their issues. I hope at the very least they state they will recognize Israel. [/FONT][/COLOR]

The Palestinians will never and should never recognize Israel as a "Jewish" state. As a state yes, but not as a "Jewish" state. And that is where the whole problem is... Bibbi and his cohorts want the Palestinians to recognize Israel as a Jewish state and the Palestinians will and have recognized Israel as a state, but not as a "Jewish" state.

And in a way I do understand the Palestinian point of view, which is why most nations recognize Israel as a state but not as a "Jewish" state.

But on the flip side it is just another excuse is a long line for the Israeli right to continue its war with the Palestinians and that in turn is an excuse for the Palestinians to continue its war with Israel. Never ending cluster****...

 

[Cardinal]

The Palestinians will never and should never recognize Israel as a "Jewish" state. As a state yes, but not as a "Jewish" state. And that is where the whole problem is... Bibbi and his cohorts want the Palestinians to recognize Israel as a Jewish state and the Palestinians will and have recognized Israel as a state, but not as a "Jewish" state.

And in a way I do understand the Palestinian point of view, which is why most nations recognize Israel as a state but not as a "Jewish" state.

But on the flip side it is just another excuse is a long line for the Israeli right to continue its war with the Palestinians and that in turn is an excuse for the Palestinians to continue its war with Israel. Never ending cluster****...

Recognizing Israel as a Jewish State is the whole point of recognizing the State of Israel, otherwise it's meaningless. Why do you think they don't want to recognize Israel as a state? Anyway, both sides are going to cede to certain things if there's ever going to be peace, and recognizing a Jewish State is one of them.

 

[ecofarm]

The Palestinians will never and should never recognize Israel as a "Jewish" state. As a state yes, but not as a "Jewish" state.

That's the idiocy preventing peace. The Spanish, the Germans, the French and the Swedes can have a homeland... but the Jews cannot.

Some people act as if the mere existence of a state called Israel constitutes a homeland. The important thing, to them, is that Jews never have a safe place.

In the denying of a homeland is a thinly veiled desire to see Jews wiped from the Earth.

 

[mbig]

You think Hamas will allow fair elections under their rule? Thats laughable. You think Hamas would go to elections if they knew it would mean they will lose?

That IS one of the main points.
When they agreed to a Unity govt (and they have agreed Twice previously and Failed), they are each trying to maintain their Duchies, which in neither case are legitimate.

An election may very well/hopefully yield a candidate like Fayyad: Who both sides are scared of and is a constructive leader.
Of course, Barghouti, a militant, is also quite popular.
So look for delayed elections again too, even if Unity happens.

This 'Unity' routine is clearly for Kerry/talks purpose and is almost comical.
I mean, the UNGA has also twice in majority recognized a 'palestine' with No agreed upon leader/no single govt!
The first time with no borders, the second with the exact 1967 borders which is Not going to happen in any case.

Of course, even of the Palestinians get their act together (unlikely), Netanyahu has NO intention of making any viable deal. (if there's any territory to even negotiate for when he's finished)

The Kerry talks are a Joke.
We need new leaders on Both sides First.

 

[PeteEU]

That's the idiocy preventing peace. The Spanish, the Germans, the French and the Swedes can have a homeland... but the Jews cannot.

Of course they can, but by calling it a Jewish state, then you imply that it is only for Jews.

Some people act as if the mere existence of a state called Israel constitutes a homeland. The important thing, to them, is that Jews never have a safe place.

In the denying of a homeland is a thinly veiled desire to see Jews wiped from the Earth.

No one is denying them a "homeland".. it is called Israel and is situated according to the 1948 borders.

 

[PeteEU]

Recognizing Israel as a Jewish State is the whole point of recognizing the State of Israel, otherwise it's meaningless. Why do you think they don't want to recognize Israel as a state? Anyway, both sides are going to cede to certain things if there's ever going to be peace, and recognizing a Jewish State is one of them.

The problem with recognizing Israel as a "Jewish state" is the fact that this implies it is only for Jews, which means you de-facto approve the expulsion of the 800k non Jews in Israel. And that is what worries the Palestinians and many other countries. That the actions of the Israeli government and politicians have not helped only makes the point much more important.

Israel has serious problems when it comes to including other religions and even colours. There are riots and demonstrations against black Jews, and Christians and Muslims are being harassed daily. And then there is the demographic bomb... Israeli Muslims are making more babies than Jews and will become the majority in a relatively short time.. and what to do about that after you have discriminated against the minority that suddenly becomes a majority?

By accepting Israel as more than a state, but as a Jewish state, means that you risk this discrimination to expand and resulting in mass expulsions... and that is not something anyone but the most rabid Jews want, but with the state of politics in the region.. it is the radical aspects that have the power.

That is why most countries accept Israel as a state, but not as a "Jewish state".

 

[shrubnose]

Read more @: Palestinian unity government will recognize Israel: Abbas | Al Jazeera America

Hmm mixed statements coming from Abbas and Hamas. At one point he states that the unified government will recognize Israel as a Jewish state but then Hamas states that they will not recognize Israel still.. Hopefully the unified government can figure out their issues.

I hope at the very least they state they will recognize Israel.

[/FONT][/COLOR]

This would be a great step forward for the region.

 

[Cardinal]

The problem with recognizing Israel as a "Jewish state" is the fact that this implies it is only for Jews, which means you de-facto approve the expulsion of the 800k non Jews in Israel. And that is what worries the Palestinians and many other countries. That the actions of the Israeli government and politicians have not helped only makes the point much more important.

Israel has serious problems when it comes to including other religions and even colours. There are riots and demonstrations against black Jews, and Christians and Muslims are being harassed daily. And then there is the demographic bomb... Israeli Muslims are making more babies than Jews and will become the majority in a relatively short time.. and what to do about that after you have discriminated against the minority that suddenly becomes a majority?

By accepting Israel as more than a state, but as a Jewish state, means that you risk this discrimination to expand and resulting in mass expulsions... and that is not something anyone but the most rabid Jews want, but with the state of politics in the region.. it is the radical aspects that have the power.

That is why most countries accept Israel as a state, but not as a "Jewish state".

I've heard the positions from both sides, and I'm well aware of the contradictions of having a democratic state and one that is officially Jewish. However, to focus on Israel in this circumstance is to ignore the context of our foreign policy in the region and the region itself. Israel is surrounded on all sides by Islamic states, i.e. states that are governed by Muslims for Muslims. If Israel were to allow demographics to take over then so too would Israel become an Islamic State. Would you find that more acceptable to you than the idea of a Jewish State? Because that is exactly what would happen. And secondly, regarding our foreign policy, the United States tacitly accepts the existence of Islamic States (as if we could do anything about that anyway, even if we wanted to). Why should we accept that and not Israel being a Jewish State?

Anyway, Israel has been a Jewish state, and this has not resulted in mass expulsions.

 

[ecofarm]

I've heard the positions from both sides, and I'm well aware of the contradictions of having a democratic state and one that is officially Jewish.

Is a Swedish state a contradiction?

 

[Cardinal]

Is a Swedish state a contradiction?

Let's stay on track here, whaddya say?

 

[ecofarm]

Let's stay on track here, whaddya say?

And let's begin with an understanding that Israel is to be an ethnically Jewish, and not religiously Jewish, state. Allowing such confusion is nonsense.

Comparing a Jewish state to a Muslim state is BS. The Jewish state is secular (with human rights and democracy) and a matter of ethnicity not religion.


Your argument is:

Well, if one allows totalitarian Muslim states, then why not allow a French state?

Nonsense! I do not tolerate totalitarian Muslim states. Israel as a Jewish state is not about religion.

 

[Cardinal]

And let's begin with an understanding that Israel is to be an ethnically Jewish, and not religiously Jewish, state. Allowing such confusion is nonsense.

Comparing a Jewish state to a Muslim state is BS. The Jewish state is secular (with human rights and democracy) and a matter of ethnicity not religion.


Your argument is:

Well, if one allows totalitarian Muslim states, then why not allow a French state?

Nonsense! I do not tolerate totalitarian Muslim states. Israel as a Jewish state is not about religion.

Ugh...no. I didn't say any of that. I'm wondering why PeteEu would be content to have a purely Muslim state in place of a Jewish (ethnic and religious) one.

 

[ecofarm]

Ugh...no. I didn't say any of that. I'm wondering why PeteEu would be content to have a purely Muslim state in place of a Jewish (ethnic and religious) one.

A theocracy ("Muslim state") has nothing to do with a Jewish ethnic state, nor a Swedish state nor a French state.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

The Palestinians will never and should never recognize Israel as a "Jewish" state. As a state yes, but not as a "Jewish" state. And that is where the whole problem is... Bibbi and his cohorts want the Palestinians to recognize Israel as a Jewish state and the Palestinians will and have recognized Israel as a state, but not as a "Jewish" state.

And in a way I do understand the Palestinian point of view, which is why most nations recognize Israel as a state but not as a "Jewish" state.

But on the flip side it is just another excuse is a long line for the Israeli right to continue its war with the Palestinians and that in turn is an excuse for the Palestinians to continue its war with Israel. Never ending cluster****...

I agree. I can see the argument of not recognizing it as a Jewish state. But I do understand where the PLO is coming from. This just shows that the PLO is being more cooperative than the Israelis.

 

[Cardinal]

A theocracy ("Muslim state") has nothing to do with a Jewish ethnic state, nor a Swedish state nor a French state.

Take it up with PeteEU. Until he clarifies his position it seems to me that he's okay with a theocratic Islamic state over a Jewish ethnic one.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

You think Hamas will allow fair elections under their rule? Thats laughable. You think Hamas would go to elections if they knew it would mean they will lose?

Yes. I do believe they will.

 

[ecofarm]

Take it up with PeteEU.

As if.