Oh my and it only gets worse...

[Summerwind]

They are not there to protect you... cops are almost always after the fact. You are robbed, mugged, attacked, etc. and THEN the cops show up.

I generally will talk to a cop but if they are calling me over for no reason then I might not, especially if I was just videoing them...

Judging by the language, "protecting our rights," I think some on here have the police and our armed services confused. Given the equipment and tactics of the police these days, that's actually somewhat understandable.

 

[Bodi]

Now they have to deal with being treated like criminals by every snot-nosed punk with an iphone.

How is videoing them acting like a snot-nosed punk? Your assertions are seemingly out of nowhere...

The least I can do is treat him with respect and not turn my back on him like he is a piece of crap.

She said he was being a jerk, or something to that effect. You just videoed him and he is being a jerk calling you over... why bother as he is probably coing to harass you...

 

[Bodi]

Judging by the language, "protecting our rights," I think some on here have the police and our armed services confused. Given the equipment and tactics of the police these days, that's actually somewhat understandable.

I don't even respect soldiers just because they serve... I have known more than a few assholes who joined the military and the notion that they joined to protect and honor America and our rights is often bull. Some join because they are poor, or to avoid gangs and legal trouble and some just because they get to shoot at people.

 

[Summerwind]

I don't even respect soldiers just because they serve... I have known more than a few assholes who joined the military and the notion that they joined to protect and honor America and our rights is often bull. Some join because they are poor, or to avoid gangs and legal trouble and some just because they get to shoot at people.

No doubt about that. Yeah if it was really an "honor" thing, there'd be more economic diversity in the grunt ranks.

 

[Bodi]

No doubt about that. Yeah if it was really an "honor" thing, there'd be more economic diversity in the grunt ranks.

I don't doubt that some gain honor after joining due to the collective purpose but I knew a few Army Rangers that didn't give a crap about America and just loved rappelling out of helicopters and blowing things up...

 

[Goshin]

Actually, citizens staging events to test the police is a public safety concern. What happens if, while one of these staged events is happening, another group is out snatching 5 year olds off the street? While the cops are busy dealing with some bull**** for your amusement they aren't taking care of actual stuff that needs taking care of.

Honestly Luther the existing model of the police force spends so much time on BS already that I don't think it makes much difference. Half their man hours are spent on what amounts to revenue generation and paperwork.

 

[Skeptic Bob]

Done. What do you want me to do next?

I don't know. I will need to rent the movie Judge Dredd for reference.

 

[Glen Contrarian]

Not really. If you notice the incident that started all of this--Fergusson-- was brought about by a thug trying to grab an officers gun.

'scuse you, but this has been going on a LONG time. Or don't you remember Rodney King?

 

[Summerwind]

'scuse you, but this has been going on a LONG time. Or don't you remember Rodney King?

'scuse me, but this has been going on an even LONGER time. Or doesn't anyone remember it all started with slavery, then lynchings, and through to today's one sided (against the impoverished of pretty much any color) police and penal systems.... It's American History from before America had a history, and it really is time to find a solution. That's for darn sure. Getting better in tiny bits and pieces shouldn't satisfy anyone.

 

[Glen Contrarian]

If anyone could turn this into a rant for gun control I knew who it would be!

Most cops I know have no problem with firearms. Besides carrying a gun is not license to be treated poorly.

I have a carry license which will pop up whenever the cops run my tags, I've been pulled over and also had to deal The state patrol after a car wreck I was involved in, guns never came up as a topic. I should note I was carrying my gun at each of these times

I wasn't trying to turn it into a gun control debate.

And I heartily agree that most cops don't have a problem with LEGAL and RESPONSIBLE gun ownership. Neither do I. Neither do most liberals.

BUT the point was that the cops KNOW down deep in their guts that there are more guns than people out there...and every single time they pull someone over, the possibility that this might turn into a deadly gunfight has to be in their minds. When a person faces this kind of stress, this kind of thought process so many times, it cannot help but change that person's psyche, that person's way of thinking. I would say that's where a significant amount of the aggressiveness comes from.

 

[KevinKohler]

Innocent until proven guilty by a court of law. Period.

 

[Summerwind]

Innocent until proven guilty by a court of law. Period.

Which I gather means that unless a suspect is giving direct reason to the police questioning him, he shouldn't be treated aggressively. The alleged crime should have no bearing on how a suspect is treated. Am I right?

 

[KevinKohler]

Which I gather means that unless a suspect is giving direct reason to the police questioning him, he shouldn't be treated aggressively. The alleged crime should have no bearing on how a suspect is treated. Am I right?

Precisely.

If we could manage it, cops shouldn't even know what the alleged crimes are. It's simply not important. All that's important are the CURRENT actions of the person while in their custody. They are not judges. They are not lawyers. They are not jurors.

They are nothing more than the arbiters of law. All they should see is that a person has been ordered to be detained or appear or whatever, and that it's their job to do the detaining, or whatever.



I don't care if the person they have is Adolf Hitler himself. Innocent until proven guilty.


Now, once a court of law has made judgement? THEN we can treat them as guilty sacks of ****. THEN they get to go to prison, to be treated by the finest fellow sacks of **** in all the land.

 

[radcen]

In this other thread, I describe an incident I had this morning with the police. Though this is related, it brings a whole new question to the forefront. Here's the original situation http://www.debatepolitics.com/law-and-order/222752-absolutely-ufb-new-post.html

I decided to call the related police department and let them know how this cop behaved, I was transferred to the watch commander. She listened and then said, "well would it matter to you what he was being questioned over?"
I said, "no, it doesn't matter, if he's not giving the police trouble then they shouldn't be overly aggressive."
She said, "so it doesn't matter to you if there was concern he was a child molester."
I repeated, "no, it doesn't matter, what matters is how he is behaving with the police who stopped him, and he was quite passive through out."
She tried again, "what if it was your kid we thought he molested."
And a third time, I repeated myself. "Absolutely doesn't matter. What matters is how he behaves with the police, if he's not giving issue, they can handcuff him without issues.

So here's the new question it brings to the fore...
How did we get to the point that the watch commander of a decent sized city somehow thinks it's okay to be unnecessarily aggressive depending on the suspected crime, even before there's any evidence a that person being questioned was involved. In the case I recorded, they let him go, so I guess he didn't have anything to do with whatever they stopped him for.
And do you think it's okay for police to be aggressive with a passive suspect, depending on the crime alleged?
Also if it were a friend or family member who was the victim, would that effect your answer?

She's appealing to emotion, which works surprisingly often.

 

[Summerwind]

She's appealing to emotion, which works surprisingly often.

Exactly why I was wondering if my not reacting as she had hoped was unusual. I notice that most of our police procedurals and military style media, it does seem as though we as a society have decided that aggression can be based on #1 the seriousness of the alleged crime, and #2 the closeness of the victim to the police or other highlighted character. I fear as a society we have come to that point regardless of the fact that in RL, police do not have near the 100% accuracy rate that the movies and tv series have.