Oceangate Titan: analysis of an insultingly predictable failure

[DrewPaul]

Was NASA in business, charging people to take them for rides?

In essence yes, they charged the American people a great deal of money to give astronauts a ride into space that ultimately was driven by schedule more than safety.

Personally, even if I was given a paid ticket there is no way I'd get I'd be willing to be bolted into a device that was rated at best for 13,000 feet down to 12,000 feet. I sure as hell wouldn't take my son or daughter.

 

[Winston]

Excellent video from a guy whose specialty this is.

The amount of flaws and problems here are off the scales and indeed, a catastrophic failure in the way this craft was being used was in fact a predictable disaster from the start.

I do find this a perfect cautionary tale of modern American conservatism.

Here you had a billionaire, railing against regulation, said and I quote “over the top in their rules and regulations”.

When you give large corporations and eccentric billionaires a blank Cheque to put money above people, safety and the environment in order to make a quick buck… this is ultimately the result.

But poor republicans will never learn that lesson, voting against their own interests is what they do.

Not sure if covered in the video..

But, are the families suing? Or, is the waiver airtight?

 

[Jetboogieman]

Not sure if covered in the video..

But, are the families suing? Or, is the waiver airtight?

Well they’re all wealthy enough to do so and I don’t know how airtight the waiver is, definitely not a legal expert…

But I don’t know if you can sign away negligence in its totality.

There is seemingly a lot of damning evidence that the operator knew and ignored warnings about the safety of the craft so it’ll be interesting to see how it turns out against the balance of the waiver.

 

[EdwinWillers]

Very well put. It's really no different than a gun tragedy being used against Republicans, who are by far, legal responsible gun owners. Grave dancing, blaming a political faction, isn't a winning argument.
May all these people RIP, and hopefully others can learn by the mistakes of the owner of the craft.

"Grave dancing" is well stated. That's precisely what the OP is doing here - and that to gain some piddly political points.

It's shameful, but he won't man up to it.

 

[Jetboogieman]

And what's to "counteract?" A bunch of stupid, ignorant comments about conservatism, republicans, and Enron being responsible for the Oceangate tragedy.

swipe at the Republicans

Why am I not surprise you don’t even get the point I’m making to begin with.

I have noticed American Conservatives struggle with nuance and the bigger picture on most issues.

No different here.

 

[EdwinWillers]

In essence yes, they charged the American people a great deal of money to give astronauts a ride into space that ultimately was driven by schedule more than safety.

Personally, even if I was given a paid ticket there is no way I'd get I'd be willing to be bolted into a device that was rated at best for 13,000 feet down to 12,000 feet. I sure as hell wouldn't take my son or daughter.

Indeed, that coffin was a death trap. I wouldn't have gotten into it and allowed myself to be bolted in with no way of getting out if it never left the pier, let alone on some fanciful ride to 12,500 feet.

 

[EdwinWillers]

Why am I not surprise you don’t even get the point I’m making to begin with.

I have noticed American Conservatives struggle with nuance and the bigger picture on most issues.

No different here.

Quick tap dancing. You look silly doing so.

You made your point in the OP and everyone knows exactly what it was. You got called on it, and now you're trying to save face with more lame excuses.

Just man up and admit you were wrong already.

 

[Jetboogieman]

Quick tap dancing. You look silly doing so.

You made your point in the OP and everyone knows exactly what it was. You got called on it, and now you're trying to save face with more lame excuses.

Just man up and admit you were wrong already.

I fully stand behind my point.

110%.

 

[trixare4kids]

Why am I not surprise you don’t even get the point I’m making to begin with.

I have noticed American Conservatives struggle with nuance and the bigger picture on most issues.

No different here.

You made your insulting points, and now your points are being magnificently rebutted by some from the groups you've degraded. That you don't enjoy their rebuttals being handed back to you is par for the course.

Have a nice day.

 

[eohrnberger]

Why am I not surprise you don’t even get the point I’m making to begin with.

I have noticed American Conservatives struggle with nuance and the bigger picture on most issues.

No different here.

I have noticed that American Liberals politicize EVERYTHING. Especially things that have no need or justification to be politicized.

So no different here.

 

[trixare4kids]

"Grave dancing" is well stated. That's precisely what the OP is doing here - and that to gain some piddly political points.

It's shameful, but he won't man up to it.

I don't care what he does. My point stands regardless.

 

[trixare4kids]

Indeed, that coffin was a death trap. I wouldn't have gotten into it and allowed myself to be bolted in with no way of getting out if it never left the pier, let alone on some fanciful ride to 12,500 feet.

I don't know why any caring father would risk something like that, encouraging his hesitant son to go on the vessel.

 

[DrewPaul]

Of course you could bring up any particular disaster that is independent of what we’re talking about and lay it at my feet.

An opposing point of view should never do such a terrible thing like citing a disaster that contradicts your narrative.

But through every iteration of space travel disasters whether we’re talking about Apollo 1, Apollo 13, challenger and Columbia and all the other incidents that have taken place, these were painstakingly reviewed and attempts made to rectify the problems that occurred and unfortunately strapping people to a spacecraft filled with Highly combustible rocket fuel and oxygen is inherently risky, everyone knows this.

You think the business model was to take people down to see the Titanic throwing all caution to the wind?

Capabilities​

According to documents submitted by OceanGate to a U.S. District Court in Virginia overseeing Titanic-related matters, the Titan has the capability to dive to a depth of four kilometers (2.4 miles) with a sufficient safety margin. The company stated this information in its April filing.

In the event of an emergency, the Titan is equipped with safety mechanisms that facilitate its ascent to the surface. These built-in systems include the ability to release sandbags, le ..

Read more at:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

During the filing, OceanGate mentioned that the Titan had already completed over 50 test dives, including dives to the depth equivalent to that of the Titanic. These test dives took place in deep waters near the Bahamas and in a pressure chamber.

The filing was in court. It wasn't the wild west a totally rogue operation skirting safety where ever they could. The founder of OceanGate was on board. Obviously he believed it was safe. There is no such thing as totally safe, it is an inherently dangerous operation no matter what precautions anyone takes. That's why they sign waivers. They are informed it is risky.

Your ignorance is always astounding and clear denial of points you can’t counteract.

And your mom wears army boots....

 

[EdwinWillers]

I don't care what he does. My point stands regardless.

The utter clumsiness of his attempts to save face are embarrassing, frankly.

 

[EdwinWillers]

And your mom wears army boots....

 

[EdwinWillers]

I don't know why any caring father would risk something like that, encouraging his hesitant son to go on the vessel.

That was actually one of the most emotionally poignant aspects of this. His son actually didn't want to go, but at his father's behest, and for Father's Day, agreed.

So sad.

 

[trixare4kids]

That was actually one of the most emotionally poignant aspects of this. His son actually didn't want to go, but at his father's behest, and for Father's Day, agreed.

So sad.

At least they didn't know what hit them. If they were left to die due to hypoxia, the boy's father would have had to admit to his son he was wrong to make him come on their journey and the father would have to know he caused his son's death. My heart aches for their families. Must be heart-wrenching for them.

 

[Rexedgar]

Not sure if covered in the video..

But, are the families suing? Or, is the waiver airtight?

If so, the waiver is the only thing airtight………….

 

[EdwinWillers]

At least they didn't know what hit them. If they were left to die due to hypoxia, the boy's father would have had to admit to his son he was wrong to make him come on their journey and the father would have to know he caused his son's death. My heart aches for their families. Must be heart-wrenching for them.

I know. On the scale of incredibly tragic human dramas, this one was right up there.

I suspect the ONLY solace they might have is that their loved ones didn't suffer. It was horrible there for five days trying to imagine what happened, what those guys must have been experiencing down so deep, in such cramped quarters, with no means of escape, waiting for their air to deplete, the smells, the fear, the hysteria... Thankfully, they were spared all of that. But now the families have to pick up the pieces of their lives and try to move on...

 

[Bok Tuklo]

Why am I not surprise you don’t even get the point I’m making to begin with.

He gets it. He’s being deliberately obtuse.

 

[Rexedgar]

I know. On the scale of incredibly tragic human dramas, this one was right up there.

I suspect the ONLY solace they might have is that their loved ones didn't suffer. It was horrible there for five days trying to imagine what happened, what those guys must have been experiencing down so deep, in such cramped quarters, with no means of escape, waiting for their air to deplete, the smells, the fear, the hysteria... Thankfully, they were spared all of that. But now the families have to pick up the pieces of their lives and try to move on...

Are you aware that regardless the manner of death, military survivors are always told that their loved ones died “almost immediately and didn’t have time to suffer?”
It’s meant to make the survivors feel better. No one wants to hear the details…..

 

[DrewPaul]

This incident caught the worlds attention yet 17 people died on MT Everest this year with little notice or fanfare. The distinct possibility of dying doesn't seem to have thinned the crowds attempting to summit Everest. In fact cheating death appears to be part of the lure. Like with the sub these folks pay big bucks ($65,000 in '96) to essentially undergo risk and extreme discomfort without any guarantee of success. It takes nearly two months of trotting up and down the mountain until your blood cells nearly double.

For Sherpa's (who carry all the gear and set up all the supplies) its a way to make a great living in a place that is terribly impoverished. If they can summit, their services are in greater demand. For the community the influx of hikers has opened schools and medical facilities.

For clients paying to summit its mostly about ego and following a dream.

For guides its about money...but also doing something they love.

I'm rereading the book 'Into Thin Air' about the disaster in the 96 season. Little has changed. Anyone who dies beyond 20,000 feet is left up there or lowered into a crevasse.

 

[DrewPaul]

Are you aware that regardless the manner of death, military survivors are always told that their loved ones died “almost immediately and didn’t have time to suffer?”
It’s meant to make the survivors feel better. No one wants to hear the details…..

That doesn't mean they're making it up on this occasion. The Navy verified the sound of an implosion.

 

[Rexedgar]

This incident caught the worlds attention yet 17 people died on MT Everest this year with little notice or fanfare. The distinct possibility of dying doesn't seem to have thinned the crowds attempting to summit Everest. In fact cheating death appears to be part of the lure. Like with the sub these folks pay big bucks ($65,000 in '96) to essentially undergo risk and extreme discomfort without any guarantee of success. It takes nearly two months of trotting up and down the mountain until your blood cells nearly double.

For Sherpa's (who carry all the gear and set up all the supplies) its a way to make a great living in a place that is terribly impoverished. If they can summit, their services are in greater demand. For the community the influx of hikers has opened schools and medical facilities.

For clients paying to summit its mostly about ego and following a dream.

For guides its about money...but also doing something they love.

I'm rereading the book 'Into Thin Air' about the disaster in the 96 season. Little has changed. Anyone who dies beyond 20,000 feet is left up there or lowered into a crevasse.

I’m disappointed in the pictures that I have seen of the well worn trail up Everest. What is wrong with the authorities that they don’t track what is taken up and make sure that an equal amount or the waste, comes down?

 

[Rexedgar]

That doesn't mean they're making it up on this occasion. The Navy verified the sound of an implosion.

Understood, one never hears that the deceased was screaming, in ungodly pain and begging for their mama…….


Edit: according to reports, the Navy forwarded the information to the CG, but the results weren’t conclusive.