Oceangate Titan: analysis of an insultingly predictable failure

[Jetboogieman]

Excellent video from a guy whose specialty this is.

The amount of flaws and problems here are off the scales and indeed, a catastrophic failure in the way this craft was being used was in fact a predictable disaster from the start.

I do find this a perfect cautionary tale of modern American conservatism.

Here you had a billionaire, railing against regulation, said and I quote “over the top in their rules and regulations”.

When you give large corporations and eccentric billionaires a blank Cheque to put money above people, safety and the environment in order to make a quick buck… this is ultimately the result.

But poor republicans will never learn that lesson, voting against their own interests is what they do.

 

[Grand Mal]

Excellent video from a guy whose specialty this is.

The amount of flaws and problems here are off the scales and indeed, a catastrophic failure in the way this craft was being used was in fact a predictable disaster from the start.

I do find this a perfect cautionary tale of modern American conservatism.

Here you had a billionaire, railing against regulation, said and I quote “over the top in their rules and regulations”.

When you give large corporations and eccentric billionaires a blank Cheque to put money above people, safety and the environment in order to make a quick buck… this is ultimately the result.

But poor republicans will never learn that lesson, voting against their own interests is what they do.

They (poor conservatives) seem to think that wealthy, powerful people must be intelligent and they want to appear intelligent themselves by agreeing with them. That's why a conservative who twists wrenches for a living will be anti-union and a conservative who loves to hunt and fish will oppose environmental measures, because wealthy, powerful people told them they should

 

[EdwinWillers]

Excellent video from a guy whose specialty this is.

The amount of flaws and problems here are off the scales and indeed, a catastrophic failure in the way this craft was being used was in fact a predictable disaster from the start.

I do find this a perfect cautionary tale of modern American conservatism.

Here you had a billionaire, railing against regulation, said and I quote “over the top in their rules and regulations”.

When you give large corporations and eccentric billionaires a blank Cheque to put money above people, safety and the environment in order to make a quick buck… this is ultimately the result.

But poor republicans will never learn that lesson, voting against their own interests is what they do.

This tragedy had nothing to do with American conservatism or "poor Republicans" not learning some stupid lesson you imagine they need to learn.

Of all the threads started thus far about this tragedy, this is the first that dared express such a phenomenally ignorant, arrogant and insensitively partisan take on it. smh

This tragedy is primarily about ONE MAN'S HUBRIS, an explorer who made some blatantly humongous, flawed decisions and who ignored the unanimous concerns by a plethora of experts in the field of deep water exploration.

Decisions which, frankly, mirror your own in posting this puerile crap.

 

[NWRatCon]

I was impressed by Josh Gates' response. He declined the opportunity because of safety concerns.

These folks were cowboys.

From CNN (although the interview was on MSNBC):

Gates and his team ultimately decided not to go through with filming a segment about OceanGate's plans for submersible trips to the Titanic wreck because he felt the program wasn't ready.

“In the course though of going out on Titan, and diving down inside of it, it just became clear to us at that time that there was a alot that needed to be worked out with the sub,” Gates said. "A lot of the systems worked but a lot of them really didn’t. We had issues with thrusters and issues with computer control and things like that. Ultimately, it was a challenging dive."

Gates explained that in 2021 he learned there were four ways for the vessel to shed weight and bring it back up to the surface in the case of an emergency.
There is a computer-controlled weight release, a manual-valve system that injects air into exterior ballast containers, a hydraulic system to drop weights and an ability to detach from the sled attached to the submersible and help move the vessel back to the surface.
“On one hand you have this incredibly innovative, novel design," Gates said. "On the other hand, there are a lot of unknowns."

 

[Jetboogieman]

This tragedy is primarily about ONE MAN'S HUBRIS, an explorer who made some blatantly humongous, flawed decisions and who ignored the unanimous concerns by a plethora of experts in the field of deep water exploration.

So kinda like how time after time deregulation leads to things like Enron and the 2008 financial crisis.

Willful ignorance around science is leading to man made climate change and it’s consequences and continuing bad decision making in not addressing it.

Nah, my point checks out.

You just don’t want to hear it.

 

[Helix]

Good analysis in the video. My first thought after watching it was "Hindsight is 20/20, but foresight is worth its weight in gold."

 

[RabidAlpaca]

This tragedy had nothing to do with American conservatism or "poor Republicans" not learning some stupid lesson you imagine they need to learn.

Of all the threads started thus far about this tragedy, this is the first that dared express such a phenomenally ignorant, arrogant and insensitively partisan take on it. smh

This tragedy is primarily about ONE MAN'S HUBRIS, an explorer who made some blatantly humongous, flawed decisions and who ignored the unanimous concerns by a plethora of experts in the field of deep water exploration.

Decisions which, frankly, mirror your own in posting this puerile crap.

Except the OP is completely correct. Republicans want to completely deregulate entire industries, and when we do that, human lives will be lost to ONE MAN'S HUBRIS, all the time. Without regulation, who was going to stop this asshole from killing these poor people? Explain it to us, Mr. John Galt.

Things like this and the railroad disasters we've had lately are direct consequences of the anti-regulation, anti-safety policies you support.

 

[PirateMk1]

Excellent video from a guy whose specialty this is.

The amount of flaws and problems here are off the scales and indeed, a catastrophic failure in the way this craft was being used was in fact a predictable disaster from the start.

I do find this a perfect cautionary tale of modern American conservatism.

Here you had a billionaire, railing against regulation, said and I quote “over the top in their rules and regulations”.

When you give large corporations and eccentric billionaires a blank Cheque to put money above people, safety and the environment in order to make a quick buck… this is ultimately the result.

But poor republicans will never learn that lesson, voting against their own interests is what they do.

Whoever designed the sub didnt do FEA simulations. This is a leadership failure, pure and simple. The engineers were ignored and fired. This isn't a republican or democrat problem, its a people not listening problem. A simple FEA simulation would have discovered the problems if the engineer was inexperienced. Carbon fiber reinforced plastic as a hull material for a submarine is not a good choice because its best properties are tensile strength, ie stretching resistance. The material needed is something that has superior compression resistance. Rebar and fiber reinforced high density concrete for instance. HSY 120 steel. Ect.

 

[Jetboogieman]

This is a leadership failure, pure and simple. The engineers were ignored and fired.

Yeah and a leadership outlook and style that mirrors Republican and modern American conservatives in many ways.

Regulation bad, cut regulation to make a quick buck, ignore warnings and experts, disaster inevitably ensues.

 

[PirateMk1]

Yeah and a leadership outlook and style that mirrors Republican and modern American conservatives in many ways.

Regulation bad, cut regulation to make a quick buck, ignore warnings and experts, disaster inevitably ensues.

Regulation is ok in very limited quantities. However the government always wants more power. Always. There has to be balance.

If somebody want to get into an experimental vehicle, I say let em. The incident isn't a disaster, its a small tragedy, nothing more.

 

[Bok Tuklo]

John Galt says **** Chesterton’s Fence.

 

[Jetboogieman]

Regulation is ok in very limited quantities. However the government always wants more power. Always. There has to be balance.

Yeah and republicans and modern American conservatives have destroyed that balance in favor of screwing human beings to benefit wealthy donors and democrats aren’t perfect in this regard.

It’s just rather nakedly so on the other side and proudly campaigned on despite its clear catastrophic consequences.

 

[watsup]

They (poor conservatives) seem to think that wealthy, powerful people must be intelligent and they want to appear intelligent themselves by agreeing with them. That's why a conservative who twists wrenches for a living will be anti-union and a conservative who loves to hunt and fish will oppose environmental measures, because wealthy, powerful people told them they should

Exactly! They work against their own interests because they have been propagandized to do so. Another example is the middle class right wingers clamoring time and again for huge tax cuts for the wealthy elite. Welcome to the Koch Brothers paradise, given that it was their hundreds of millions that supported the introduction of said propaganda.

 

[DrewPaul]

Excellent video from a guy whose specialty this is.

The amount of flaws and problems here are off the scales and indeed, a catastrophic failure in the way this craft was being used was in fact a predictable disaster from the start.

I do find this a perfect cautionary tale of modern American conservatism.

Here you had a billionaire, railing against regulation, said and I quote “over the top in their rules and regulations”.

When you give large corporations and eccentric billionaires a blank Cheque to put money above people, safety and the environment in order to make a quick buck… this is ultimately the result.

But poor republicans will never learn that lesson, voting against their own interests is what they do.

Were republicans in charge of NASA's staggering failures like the doozy below? Was it not regulated enough?

 

[Grand Mal]

Regulation is ok in very limited quantities. However the government always wants more power. Always. There has to be balance.

I say let business do business until they show that they can't be trusted then regulate the shit out of them, like misbehaving children.

If somebody want to get into an experimental vehicle, I say let em. The incident isn't a disaster, its a small tragedy, nothing more.

What about if someone is charging people to take them for rides in an 'experimental vehicle'?

 

[Grand Mal]

Were republicans in charge of NASA's staggering failures like the doozy below? Was it not regulated enough?

View attachment 67453972

Was NASA in business, charging people to take them for rides?

 

[EdwinWillers]

Were republicans in charge of NASA's staggering failures like the doozy below? Was it not regulated enough?

View attachment 67453972

You're wasting your breath....

Those who post the sort of puerile, partisan crap we've seen displayed here I daresay struggle to feel even a tinge of the amount of shame they ought, if that.

Any guesses what the actual response will be?

Yep.

 

[NWRatCon]

Was NASA in business, charging people to take them for rides?

The FAA WOULDN'T have allowed it.

14 CFR § 91.319 - Aircraft having experimental certificates: Operating limitations.​

 

[PirateMk1]

I say let business do business until they show that they can't be trusted then regulate the shit out of them, like misbehaving children.

What about if someone is charging people to take them for rides in an 'experimental vehicle'?

Works for me. As for the experiential vehicle buyer beware. I own several experimental aircraft, I cant sell rides in them in the US. Also no insurance would cover paying passengers.

 

[EdwinWillers]

So kinda like how time after time deregulation leads to things like Enron and the 2008 financial crisis.

Willful ignorance around science is leading to man made climate change and it’s consequences and continuing bad decision making in not addressing it.

Nah, my point checks out.

You just don’t want to hear it.

Your "point?" You're sitting on a pair of 9's and begging for another card. Where's the point in that?

First Conservatism, then "poor Republicans", now Enron and climate change is your asinine excuse for this tragedy.

But you have no idea how stupid any of that sounds, do you?

Well, you chose to hit, so here's your point:

 

[Jetboogieman]

Were republicans in charge of NASA's staggering failures like the doozy below? Was it not regulated enough?

View attachment 67453972

Of course you could bring up any particular disaster that is independent of what we’re talking about and lay it at my feet.

But through every iteration of space travel disasters whether we’re talking about Apollo 1, Apollo 13, challenger and Columbia and all the other incidents that have taken place, these were painstakingly reviewed and attempts made to rectify the problems that occurred and unfortunately strapping people to a spacecraft filled with Highly combustible rocket fuel and oxygen is inherently risky, everyone knows this.

It’s not an appropriate comparison, accidents still happen with strict controls and regulation, but they’re less likely.

But again, in the case of the Titan, here a very clear and concise encapsulation of the overall problem with ignoring regulations, ignoring experts, safety concerns and why they existed in the first place leading to catastrophe and the point being, it’s never learned from and it’s what mostly republicans and conservatives advocate for.

You're wasting your breath....

Those who post the sort of puerile, partisan crap we've seen displayed here I daresay struggle to feel even a tinge of the amount of shame they ought, if that.

Any guesses what the actual response will be?

Yep.

Your ignorance is always astounding and clear denial of points you can’t counteract.

 

[trixare4kids]

This tragedy had nothing to do with American conservatism or "poor Republicans" not learning some stupid lesson you imagine they need to learn.

Of all the threads started thus far about this tragedy, this is the first that dared express such a phenomenally ignorant, arrogant and insensitively partisan take on it. smh

This tragedy is primarily about ONE MAN'S HUBRIS, an explorer who made some blatantly humongous, flawed decisions and who ignored the unanimous concerns by a plethora of experts in the field of deep water exploration.

Decisions which, frankly, mirror your own in posting this puerile crap.

Very well put. It's really no different than a gun tragedy being used against Republicans, who are by far, legal responsible gun owners. Grave dancing, blaming a political faction, isn't a winning argument.
May all these people RIP, and hopefully others can learn by the mistakes of the owner of the craft.

 

[trixare4kids]

Whoever designed the sub didnt do FEA simulations. This is a leadership failure, pure and simple. The engineers were ignored and fired. This isn't a republican or democrat problem, its a people not listening problem. A simple FEA simulation would have discovered the problems if the engineer was inexperienced. Carbon fiber reinforced plastic as a hull material for a submarine is not a good choice because its best properties are tensile strength, ie stretching resistance. The material needed is something that has superior compression resistance. Rebar and fiber reinforced high density concrete for instance. HSY 120 steel. Ect.

There you go. Haste makes waste. Precisely why the craft failed.

 

[EdwinWillers]

Your ignorance is always astounding and clear denial of points you can’t counteract.

Oh puhleeze. You fell flat on your face and you know it.

And what's to "counteract?" A bunch of stupid, ignorant comments about conservatism, republicans, and Enron being responsible for the Oceangate tragedy.

You're the one who's tried to turn this into a political hot potato with puerile comments like that - and you got called on it - and rightfully so. Man up and admit it.

Instead, you're weakly trying to save face by hitting back at me with weak bleating of "ignorance" and "denial of points I can't counteract."

Projection. Pure and simple. You have NOTHING by way of counteracting the truth of my rebuttal. Nothing, and you know it.

 

[trixare4kids]

Were republicans in charge of NASA's staggering failures like the doozy below? Was it not regulated enough?

View attachment 67453972

I don't know how anyone would rebut your post. Well said.
Shit happens. Attempting to take a swipe at the Republicans for the water tragedy is lame-O.