Obama Spending Lowest In 60 Years [W:166/819]

[Dickieboy]

Re: Obama Spending Lowest In 60 Years

Pretty funny, right? Except the deficit for 2013 -- the last budget of Obama's first term -- is projected to be $704 billion. Now, while that's not half of $1.3 trillion, it is pretty damned close (46% lower).

http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/ftpdocs/120xx/doc12039/budgettables.pdf

Using those same baseline numbers again…And continuing my skepticism on the sunset of the Bush tax cuts, etal. Recently the CBO said this:

In fact, under current law, increases in taxes and, to a lesser extent, reductions in spending will reduce the federal budget deficit dramatically between 2012 and 2013—a development that some observers have referred to as a “fiscal cliff”—and will dampen economic growth in the short term.

CBO | Economic Effects of Reducing the Fiscal Restraint That Is Scheduled to Occur in 2013

So to recap, the President has spent less based on numbers gathered from the CBO who warns that IF these numbers are taken as legitimate it will dampen economic growth. Wouldn’t this ‘damped economic growth’ hinder the President’s ability to ‘reduce the deficit by half’? Further wouldn’t the same dampened growth promote a greater deficit?

Nice try…again.

 

[Dickieboy]

Re: Obama Spending Lowest In 60 Years

Conservatives will avoid this thread like the plague. :lol:

You bet they will.

Damn! Where are all the conservatives?!

What happened to all those squawking Progressive/Liberals?

 

[Ockham]

Re: Obama Spending Lowest In 60 Years

Conservatives will avoid this thread like the plague. :lol:

Conservatives avoid threads like this because "the stupid burns"....

 

[Redress]

Re: Obama Spending Lowest In 60 Years

Yea he is terriible and Obama tought his philosophy of rules for radicals.. do not mimimize this..what we are in is social re-enginering.. Obama proudly speaks of it daily..

Yes, but your arguments fall into two catagories:

1) Alinksky, Soros, Wright, Kenya, OMG!

2) The house controlls spending, which is false. The house, the senate and the president all control spending.

 

[AdamT]

Re: Obama Spending Lowest In 60 Years

http://research.stlouisfed.org/publications/review/12/01/21-40Kliesen.pdf
Forgive me if I'm a little skeptical of CBO deficit projections. I'd be willing to bet you fifty bucks to be donated to DP that the deficit in 2013 will be no smaller than 80% of $1.3 trillion. I'd be surprised if it didn't grow, let alone shrink.

That's a very fair point, and it certainly is a powerful argument for canceling the Bush tax cuts. That said, I will accept your bet. $50 to DPR if the 2013 deficit isn't at least 21% lower than $1.3 trillion.

 

[AdamT]

Re: Obama Spending Lowest In 60 Years

Conservatives avoid threads like this because "the stupid burns"....

Exactly my point. Truth to a wingnut is like holy water to a vampire.

But as it turns out some will drop in with idiotic comments that don't actually address the topic.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Re: Obama Spending Lowest In 60 Years

So to recap, the President has spent less based on numbers gathered from the CBO who warns that IF these numbers are taken as legitimate it will dampen economic growth. Wouldn’t this ‘damped economic growth’ hinder the President’s ability to ‘reduce the deficit by half’?

Possibly, if it changes personal earnings/income and spending significantly. But since neither the GOP or Obama wants to raise the rates on lower/middle earners or end the FICA cut, those groups won't cut spending. The fight will be over the top quintiles rates...and a 3.5% increase on them won't change their spending significantly....or make a difference on their earnings.

 

[AdamT]

Re: Obama Spending Lowest In 60 Years

What happened to all those squawking Progressive/Liberals?

We're here waiting for a conservative to acknowledge that spending growth has been slower under Obama than it has under any recent president. I suspect we'll be waiting a looooooong time.

 

[Dickieboy]

Re: Obama Spending Lowest In 60 Years

We're here waiting for a conservative to acknowledge that spending growth has been slower under Obama than it has under any recent president. I suspect we'll be waiting a looooooong time.

I'm guessing you will as it is unfathomable how anyone could put faith in an annualized spending rate based on two years of projections of a admittedly flawed budget especially when they are compared to REAL historical numbers. If that is you way, carry on.

But to be sure, after Bush jacked spending through the roof President Obama couldn’t raise it much more.

 

[Dickieboy]

Re: Obama Spending Lowest In 60 Years

Possibly, if it changes personal earnings/income and spending significantly. But since neither the GOP or Obama wants to raise the rates on lower/middle earners or end the FICA cut, those groups won't cut spending. The fight will be over the top quintiles rates...and a 3.5% increase on them won't change their spending significantly....or make a difference on their earnings.

…which promotes the necessity of the alternative baseline. The author of the article in the OP would be more compelling if he had used that data but his storyline would be less dramatic.

 

[AdamT]

Re: Obama Spending Lowest In 60 Years

I'm guessing you will as it is unfathomable how anyone could put faith in an annualized spending rate based on two years of projections of a admittedly flawed budget especially when they are compared to REAL historical numbers. If that is you way, carry on.

But to be sure, after Bush jacked spending through the roof President Obama couldn’t raise it much more.

What are you talking about? They don't have to "project" to get the spending from '09 - '11.

 

[tessaesque]

Re: Obama Spending Lowest In 60 Years

I'd like to point out that it's impossible to assert we have flat spending over Obama's whole presidency when 2012 isn't even half over and 2013 hasn't begun. CBO estimates are based on proposals or suggested budgets, not on actual spending.

Secondly, there's this:

White house estimates show 2.65 trillion in 2008
White house estimates show 2.99 trillion in 2009
White house estimates show 3.18 trillion in 2010
White house estimates show 3.47 trillion in 2011

Funny, the graph on this site doesn't look much like the graph provided. And, again, I discount 2012 and 2013 on both. If the site's estimates hold out then kudos to Obama and the legislature for decreasing spending. If they don't, both charts are wrong.

How Much Does the U.S. Government Spend? - Bloomberg

 

[tessaesque]

Re: Obama Spending Lowest In 60 Years

I'd like to point out that it's impossible to assert we have flat spending over Obama's whole presidency when 2012 isn't even half over and 2013 hasn't begun. CBO estimates are based on proposals or suggested budgets, not on actual spending.

Secondly, there's this:

White house estimates show 2.65 trillion in 2008
White house estimates show 2.99 trillion in 2009
White house estimates show 3.18 trillion in 2010
White house estimates show 3.47 trillion in 2011

Funny, the graph on this site doesn't look much like the graph provided. And, again, I discount 2012 and 2013 on both. If the site's estimates hold out then kudos to Obama and the legislature for decreasing spending. If they don't, both charts are wrong.

How Much Does the U.S. Government Spend? - Bloomberg

This site and wikipedia both estimate 3.6-3.8 trillion in spending for FY2012. Government Spending in United States: Federal State Local for 2012 - Charts Tables History

 

[tessaesque]

Re: Obama Spending Lowest In 60 Years

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd, in addition, revenues dropped significantly in 2009, meaning we significantly increased deficit spending by NOT decreasing government spending in response. We still haven't reached pre-recession revenue numbers but have increased govt. spending every year regardless.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Re: Obama Spending Lowest In 60 Years

…which promotes the necessity of the alternative baseline. The author of the article in the OP would be more compelling if he had used that data but his storyline would be less dramatic.

Since the OP was about spending, not revenue, what alternative baseline are you talking about?

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Re: Obama Spending Lowest In 60 Years

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd, in addition, revenues dropped significantly in 2009, meaning we significantly increased deficit spending by NOT decreasing government spending in response. We still haven't reached pre-recession revenue numbers but have increased govt. spending every year regardless.

Austerity is the wrong approach in a credit/banking collapse.

 

[tessaesque]

Re: Obama Spending Lowest In 60 Years

Austerity is the wrong approach in a credit/banking collapse.

It is questionable that the methods we utilized are any better.

 

[unapologeticdan]

Re: Obama Spending Lowest In 60 Years

So I really love where the article says:

By no means did Obama try to reverse that spending. Indeed, his budget proposals called for even more spending in subsequent years. But the Congress (mostly Republicans but many Democrats, too) stopped him.

Apparently Rex can't get his facts straight and I don't see why any of us should trust him because if you remember, the 2009-2011 Congress contained 257 Democrats to the 178 Republicans. Um, yeah, that sounds like it was definitely mostly Republicans.

Also, did anybody notice that this guy doesn't mention once the $1.2 Trillion dollar cost of Obamacare? Or the $2.55 Trillion dollars in revenue created in 2008 vs. the $2.24 Trillion dollars created in 2012? Or that our GDP to Debt ratio is at 103% and growing? Just to name a few financial issues the Obama administration has caused that seem to get "overlooked" in articles like this.

It's easy for liberals to take one small "victory" and hold on to it instead of looking at the big picture and realizing that "crap, maybe we screwed up?!"

 

[lpast]

Re: Obama Spending Lowest In 60 Years

It is questionable that the methods we utilized are any better.

At this point no one knows that the right approach is...

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Re: Obama Spending Lowest In 60 Years

I'd like to point out that it's impossible to assert we have flat spending over Obama's whole presidency when 2012 isn't even half over and 2013 hasn't begun. CBO estimates are based on proposals or suggested budgets, not on actual spending.

Secondly, there's this:

White house estimates show 2.65 trillion in 2008
White house estimates show 2.99 trillion in 2009
White house estimates show 3.18 trillion in 2010
White house estimates show 3.47 trillion in 2011

Funny, the graph on this site doesn't look much like the graph provided. And, again, I discount 2012 and 2013 on both. If the site's estimates hold out then kudos to Obama and the legislature for decreasing spending. If they don't, both charts are wrong.

Um, Bloomberg is using Census data, CBO I believe uses Treasury...and it appears Census calculates a bit differently:

The Census calculations don't account for inter-agency transfers and don't include spending abroad. They include funds that are obligated to be spent even if they haven't yet been spent.

 

[rocket88]

Re: Obama Spending Lowest In 60 Years

It is questionable that the methods we utilized are any better.

You usually would expect to see deficits go up during a recession. That's normal. What's abnormal is when they continually go up during good times.

The actions of Bush with the tax cuts, and the continual artifically low interest rates have handcuffed the government to what they can do. Normally you could cut taxes or lower the fed's interest rate to help get things moving again, and we can't do either of those things now.

Obama's blunder is in pushing for a tax raise. That's not going to help the economy grow at all. A smarter strategy for him would be to say, "Let's make the Bush cuts permanent, and put in a further temporary reduction" and make the Republicans run against cutting taxes.

 

[pbrauer]

Re: Obama Spending Lowest In 60 Years

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd, in addition, revenues dropped significantly in 2009, meaning we significantly increased deficit spending by NOT decreasing government spending in response. We still haven't reached pre-recession revenue numbers but have increased govt. spending every year regardless.

View attachment 67128278

Revenue dropped because of the economic downturn that began in 2008.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Re: Obama Spending Lowest In 60 Years

It is questionable that the methods we utilized are any better.

No, there are a number of studies showing our stimulus had a positive effect, and we are not suffering like many EU states are.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Re: Obama Spending Lowest In 60 Years

At this point no one knows that the right approach is...

....if you totally ignore history, that is.

 

[tessaesque]

Re: Obama Spending Lowest In 60 Years

Um, Bloomberg is using Census data, CBO I believe uses Treasury...and it appears Census calculates a bit differently:

Yeah, you know what's funny? That link I provided? It shows the census numbers, which were usually HIGHER than the White House numbers. So I kind of did y'all a solid by using the lower number in 2008, 2009, and 2010.