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'Obama Deceives the Public'

ReverendHellh0und

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'Obama Deceives the Public'


Left-Wing Icon Daniel Ellsberg: 'Obama Deceives the Public' - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International


Daniel Ellsberg, legendary leaker of the "Pentagon Papers" in 1971, still has a bone to pick with the White House. In an interview with SPIEGEL ONLINE, the 79-year-old, legendary peace activist accuses President Obama of betraying his election promises -- in Iraq, in Afghanistan and on civil liberties.



Hmm seems to me the wheels may be coming off the bus. With the likes of charlie rengel critisizing obama and other leftwingers dissatisfied with the man, that his chances or re-election will be pretty slim imo.
 

lizzie

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Can you imagine the chaos that will ensue if he doesn't win re-election? I think I'll stay home that night.;)
 

ReverendHellh0und

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It's always very telling when threads like this get little play. :pimpdaddy:
 

rathi

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What alternative was there? Of all the 2008 candidates, only the most unelectable like Ron Paul or Kucinnich would actually have taken real actions on the war or civil liberties. Hillary, Obama, McCain, Romney ect. were all unwilling to actually get it done. Obama's lip service was the least miserable choice available from a rather paltry menu.
 

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It's always very telling when threads like this get little play. :pimpdaddy:
What is there to play to? Most of us agree Obamna should do more. But what republican candidate would do as much? I support keeping pressure on Obama, but let's not pretend there's a republican candidate ready to step up and actually do more than Obama has.
 

ReverendHellh0und

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What is there to play to? Most of us agree Obamna should do more. But what republican candidate would do as much? I support keeping pressure on Obama, but let's not pretend there's a republican candidate ready to step up and actually do more than Obama has.


Like what? Close Gitmo? oh wait..... Bring the troops home in "18 months" oh wait...... Pass single payer health care nonsense.... Oh wait......
 

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The left is pissed at Obama over health care though frankly I have no idea why given that he pushed for a public option pretty hard before Lieberman finally killed it...its not like Obama could have threatened Lieberman with anything after the later proved he could win an election without any help from the Democratic party. They're a little mad over the bailout because it didn't attach enough strings (though Obama has been seeking to rectify that with a separate financial reform bill) and finally they aren't happy with more troops in Afghanistan (this one is entirely in Obama's control so its actually a complaint that makes sense if you oppose continuing the War in Afghanistan). Really though they'd probably be OK with him if it wasn't for healthcare (something he tried pushing for but no one could have gotten a public option, much less single-payer). Its a lot of bitterness towards a man who is definitely within the scope of the left (even if he hasn't used his magic powers to turn the US into Sweden yet).
 

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Like what? Close Gitmo? oh wait..... Bring the troops home in "18 months" oh wait...... Pass single payer health care nonsense.... Oh wait......
More trouble with the slowness of closing gitmo, though that isn't 100% his fault. The fear mongers did cause some problems for him, but I would still prefer he move faster.

Oh, and single payer health care was never promised or on the table.
 
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ecofarm

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Regarding the OP article, ideologues will never be happy with reality... what's new?


Anyway, I've been thinking Obama might not get re-elected for a few months now. As the honeymoon comes to an end (and the press has really loved him long time), it's looking like he has a struggle ahead.
 
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Arch Enemy

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Hmm seems to me the wheels may be coming off the bus. With the likes of charlie rengel critisizing obama and other leftwingers dissatisfied with the man, that his chances or re-election will be pretty slim imo.
Deceit is oldhat for politicians. It is not a matter of if, but a matter of for what purposes.

If someone can find that a politicians deceit is harmful, then we've got problems.
 

Awesome!

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Hmm seems to me the wheels may be coming off the bus. With the likes of charlie rengel critisizing obama and other leftwingers dissatisfied with the man, that his chances or re-election will be pretty slim imo.
I'm sold! With the 400k plus jobs created with my money, I will vote for (O)ne (B)ig (A)ss (M)istake (A)merica
 

Donc

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Hmm seems to me the wheels may be coming off the bus. With the likes of charlie rengel critisizing obama and other leftwingers dissatisfied with the man, that his chances or re-election will be pretty slim imo.
from your link.

( Daniel Ellsberg: I voted for him and I will probably vote for him again, as opposed to the Republicans. But I believe his administration in some key aspects is nothing other than the third term of the Bush administration.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: How so?

Ellsberg: I think Obama is continuing the worst of the Bush administration in terms of civil liberties, violations of the constitution and the wars in the Middle East.)



So who, in your opinion of the likely republican candidates on the horizon can beat him in 2012?
 

German guy

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I'm not American, so I did not vote for Obama, but I assume I would have voted for him in 2008 if I were American.

I did not agree with many things Bush did, especially the war in Iraq and the expansion of executive power which I consider excessive in many ways. Legal experts may debate if kidnapping, extralegal detention, denial of legal assistance and fair trials of non-Americans violates the Constitution, but no matter what they say, it's definitely a violation of rather basic Western values. I understand people were angry and afraid after 9/11, but I think respecting our basic values, like giving every suspect a fair trial and considering him innocent until his guilt is proven, is a no brainer. Maybe a police state is technically safer than a free democratic republic, but even if it is, this lack of total safety is the price for freedom.

So I was hoping Obama would put an end to these policies. Unfortunately, he has done way too few in these regards so far, and in some cases even expanded this executive power.

Yet I wonder who else would do more. Among the Republicans ... maybe Ron Paul. But does he have a chance of ever winning a nomination? I don't expect any of the mainstream Republicans to curb these questionable laws.

So as sad as it is, I still think Obama is the lesser evil, although I am by far not that hopeful about him anymore than I used to be. At least, as a nice bonus, he has restored international support for America again. And he indeed held a few nice speeches that give the impression he cares about America's international spending. So maybe if the substance of his Presidency is disappointing, at least the cosmetics are spot on. :/
 

Donc

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I'm not American, so I did not vote for Obama, but I assume I would have voted for him in 2008 if I were American.

I did not agree with many things Bush did, especially the war in Iraq and the expansion of executive power which I consider excessive in many ways. Legal experts may debate if kidnapping, extralegal detention, denial of legal assistance and fair trials of non-Americans violates the Constitution, but no matter what they say, it's definitely a violation of rather basic Western values. I understand people were angry and afraid after 9/11, but I think respecting our basic values, like giving every suspect a fair trial and considering him innocent until his guilt is proven, is a no brainer. Maybe a police state is technically safer than a free democratic republic, but even if it is, this lack of total safety is the price for freedom.

So I was hoping Obama would put an end to these policies. Unfortunately, he has done way too few in these regards so far, and in some cases even expanded this executive power.

Yet I wonder who else would do more. Among the Republicans ... maybe Ron Paul. But does he have a chance of ever winning a nomination? I don't expect any of the mainstream Republicans to curb these questionable laws.

So as sad as it is, I still think Obama is the lesser evil, although I am by far not that hopeful about him anymore than I used to be. At least, as a nice bonus, he has restored international support for America again. And he indeed held a few nice speeches that give the impression he cares about America's international spending. So maybe if the substance of his Presidency is disappointing, at least the cosmetics are spot on. :/
Ron Paul, maybe…until his son came on the scene saying that he wouldn’t have voted for the civil rights bill. IMO that pretty well tanked Ron Paul’s shot of a viable third party-sadly.
 

German guy

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Ron Paul, maybe…until his son came on the scene saying that he wouldn’t have voted for the civil rights bill. IMO that pretty well tanked Ron Paul’s shot of a viable third party-sadly.
Oh yes, I think I have heard about that. He said quite a few rather non-libertarian, rather far-right things.

Is he politically very closely associated with his father, so that his opinions immediately fall back on Ron? And would Ron have had a chance anyway, if Rand hadn't made these statements?
 

Donc

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Oh yes, I think I have heard about that. He said quite a few rather non-libertarian, rather far-right things.

Is he politically very closely associated with his father, so that his opinions immediately fall back on Ron? And would Ron have had a chance anyway, if Rand hadn't made these statements?

Yes, in this country, unfortunately the sins of the son in this case will/would be held against Dr. Paul the senior in a run for the Presidency. Would Ron have a chance? Don’t really know, but six years ago who would have thought that the United States would have had a black President?

I know that a lot of people think like myself in this country that the United States has to pass on the role of the worlds Police force to some other folks. We are to overextend and it is time for someone else to pick up the ball and run with it. Which is the meat of Dr.Paul's platform, of course some of his platform is as bizarre as his sons but if someone with a bit of charisma would pick upon it and fine-tune it, I believe it would take off.
 

German guy

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Yes, in this country, unfortunately the sins of the son in this case will/would be held against Dr. Paul the senior in a run for the Presidency. Would Ron have a chance? Don’t really know, but six years ago who would have thought that the United States would have had a black President?

I know that a lot of people think like myself in this country that the United States has to pass on the role of the worlds Police force to some other folks. We are to overextend and it is time for someone else to pick up the ball and run with it. Which is the meat of Dr.Paul's platform, of course some of his platform is as bizarre as his sons but if someone with a bit of charisma would pick upon it and fine-tune it, I believe it would take off.
I see.

But passing the role of world police to someone else?! Hell no! If that happens, we Europeans would suddenly have to defend ourselves, and we neither know how to do that, nor do we want to spend money on it (we need that for bloated bureaucracies and welfare states, dammit!) :p

No seriously, I think it would be nice if that role would be distributed a bit more evely among several players. Especially we Europeans should finally get our act together and take some responsibility.
 

Donc

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I see.

But passing the role of world police to someone else?! Hell no! If that happens, we Europeans would suddenly have to defend ourselves, and we neither know how to do that, nor do we want to spend money on it (we need that for bloated bureaucracies and welfare states, dammit!) :p

No seriously, I think it would be nice if that role would be distributed a bit more evely among several players. Especially we Europeans should finally get our act together and take some responsibility.

We have a little air strip located at Rheinland-Pfalz that we could sell you pretty cheap.:mrgreen:
 

Pal

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The left is pissed at Obama over health care though frankly I have no idea why given that he pushed for a public option pretty hard before Lieberman finally killed it...its not like Obama could have threatened Lieberman with anything after the later proved he could win an election without any help from the Democratic party. They're a little mad over the bailout because it didn't attach enough strings (though Obama has been seeking to rectify that with a separate financial reform bill) and finally they aren't happy with more troops in Afghanistan (this one is entirely in Obama's control so its actually a complaint that makes sense if you oppose continuing the War in Afghanistan). Really though they'd probably be OK with him if it wasn't for healthcare (something he tried pushing for but no one could have gotten a public option, much less single-payer). Its a lot of bitterness towards a man who is definitely within the scope of the left (even if he hasn't used his magic powers to turn the US into Sweden yet).
A lot of this is very true. I'm on the left, and I've never been too crazy about Obama. I don't think he really represents the left and I don't think he's really done much that I can really get behind. Sure there are some things I've been nominally supportive of, but on the whole I've been just as unimpressed as some of the conservatives on this forum, and I know that's true of many other people who consider themselves liberals. Of course the difference would be that even though Obama isn't all the left was hoping he would be, most of us still think a conservative would be much worse.
 

lizzie

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Would Ron have a chance? Don’t really know, but six years ago who would have thought that the United States would have had a black President?
As much as I like Ron Paul, I don't think he, or anyone who thinks along the same lines, could get elected. He's far too libertarian (which I love), but most Americans aren't independent-minded enough to vote for someone like him.

I know that a lot of people think like myself in this country that the United States has to pass on the role of the worlds Police force to some other folks. We are to overextend and it is time for someone else to pick up the ball and run with it.
Amen bro!:) My philosophy is be friends, but not family, and do business, but don't try to incorporate the entire world.;)
 

ecofarm

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IIRC, Rand Paul was expressing an objection to a small piece of the bill and it got blown up into "he would vote against it!". I didn't pay much attention to what appeared at first glance to be hackery... I very much doubt Rand is a racist, sexist or likewise. He probably chose words poorly or entered into a hypothetical with questionable context. I don't think his statement sinks anything, unless one believes it proves him to be a bigot of some sort. Does it?


Regarding Obama's re-election, I would prefer Clinton.
 
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