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Now It’s Panama’s Turn In the Barrel

The United States rightfully returned the Canal Zone to Panama as a rebuke of our shameful colonial past in which we strong armed Columbia, than Panama to get control of the Canal Zone in the first place.

It is Panama's canal and they can charge what they like to use it and choose who they want to administer the ports on either side.

Our trying to regain the canal would be no different from Germany taking crap prior to World War II.

We have no right to the Canal Zone and we should keep hands off.
 
multivita-man said:
I think the die was cast a while ago, and China has had a lot to do with it. We can certainly question the wisdom of MAGA's combative, antagonistic foreign policy, but it's not in a vacuum. Xi made the decision to assert Chinese power in a far more direct manner than any of his predecessors.
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Alienating allies, especially those in the path of Chinese imperialistic ambitions is certainly not the way to oppose China.
 
ElChupacabra said:
Maybe, Maybe not. However, if we're thinking about the threat from China in the context of their efforts in the developing world for the past couple of decades, then there's more than just the Panama Canal to be worried about. We're talking about access to resources in the aforementioned region, as well as business partnerships and investments that have given China a pretty good footing throughout the world.

What will be an interesting needle to thread is determining the kind of threat China poses, since they're using a market based model to establish footholds versus any kind of military set ups that would be clear red flags if they started to assert themselves this way. I have no doubt at all China is looking to compete directly with the US across the world and dominate economically at some point, the question for the incoming administration is whether they're interested in the kind of global expansion required to do so. China's used soft power to expand, which means the US would have to counter accordingly to gain back the traction it once had. The incoming administration seems more intent on punishing rather than competing, which I suspect will be more beneficial to China than the US.
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When you can tell me something I don't already know.......never mind.

I lived and worked in the CCP-PRC for ten years and I know a few things about the Chinese and about the world too.

I'm very familiar with the CCP and its grandiose designs over and across the globe. Indeed and over several thousands of years the Chinese are nothing if not grandiose. Yet all they have to show for it is where they are still. Japan and the Japanese are much more like us btw.

So your first task at this point is to find someone who knows less than you do. You'd find a lot of 'em in China I don't mind saying. Because all the Chinese know is the Party line. They just blurb the Party line at you and that's that -- there's no further argument or discussion as far as they are concerned. This is because the Chinese are not taught argument, dissent, critical thinking. So each time a Chinaman walked up to me to spout the Party line I gave a critical retort which left the Chinaman standing there mute. They just blink. Then they fade away each one of 'em because they don't have the slightest notion of an argument, a colloquy or discourse or discussion. Rinse and Repeat is what I did. It comes in handy here too sometimes.
 
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Tangmo said:
When you can tell me something I don't already know.......never mind.

I lived and worked in the CCP-PRC for ten years and I know a few things about the Chinese and about the world too.

I'm very familiar with the CCP and its grandiose designs over and across the globe. Indeed and over several thousands of years the Chinese are nothing if not grandiose. Yet all they have to show for it is where they are still. Japan and the Japanese are much more like us btw.

So your first task at this point is to find someone who knows less than you do. You'd find a lot of 'em in China I don't mind saying. Because all the Chinese know is the Party line. They just blurb the Party line at you and that's that -- there's no further argument or discussion as far as they are concerned. This is because the Chinese are not taught argument, dissent, critical thinking. So each time a Chinaman walked up to me to spout the Party line I gave a critical retort which left the Chinaman standing there mute. They just blink. Then they fad away each one of 'em because they don't have the slightest notion of an argument, a colloquy or discourse or discussion. Rinse and Repeat is what I did. It comes in handy here too sometimes.
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Sounds like the right winger Trumpies regurgitating what they have heard on FOX or the lies from the mouth of their Dear Great Leader.
 
ElChupacabra said:
As I mentioned in my response to @Tangmo, the challenge for the US is how to respond effectively given China's narrative throughout the developing world is one that features them as investors and developers compared to the US being an exploiter and extractor.
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The USD accounts for the predominant currency of nations' forex reserves and remains decidedly dominant as the currency of trade. US T-bills dominate the global bond markets.

Banks in the USA dominate global finance. US economic and financial sanctions are what causes investors to flee the targeted governments.

In China the NBA is more popular than dumplings and it's bigger than Confucius and Sun Tzu combined -- and then some. China is a threat to the Panama Canal which directly affects the US, the hemisphere, the West and the global economy, international trade and finance; it affects war and peace.

So and as I said, get back to me when you can tell me something I don't know already because I've already figured out your grandiose posts. Indeed, after my 10 years in China I know the smell of a CCP from a mile away.
 
At one time *Rump offered to buy Newfoundland, then he suggested Canada should become part of the US, and now he wants to take the Panama Canal. We can add land grabber to the list of his deficiencies.
 
Argent said:
At one time *Rump offered to buy Newfoundland, then he suggested Canada should become part of the US, and now he wants to take the Panama Canal. We can add land grabber to the list of his deficiencies.
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It's Greenland that has the strong strategic appeal to the USA given especially the high level of activity occurring in the Arctic militarily and for drilling. Greenland also is important due to the opening of the Northwest Passage as the ice melts due to MAGA Neo-Luddites.

I posted the serious discussions about the USA acquiring Greenland at the thread about it which I guess was earlier this year. Greenland is right next to North America that is owned by the Danes who don't deny they are wholly unable to defend it against Russian encroachment or possession.

The problem with Trump about it is that he is an intellectual and geostrategic flit who gulps down any fascinating shinny new item then moves on to the next shinny thingy. Denmark besides says no sale. Trouble is Russia is not in the market to make a purchase as much as it's maneuvering to pick pockets.

The Panama Canal is another vital geostrategic asset that may be available to the US due to its new president being very pro American. After all, Trump at a keyboard sooner or later will type out a word.
 
dseag2 said:
The US signed that treaty under Carter because the work at the time had been done and the US didn't feel the need to continue to govern the area. It was under the Panamanian president that the canal was widened in 2016 to allow for wider, longer ships to pass through. The project wasn't without its challenges, but why would the US again need to take something like this under our wing? Bloviating idiot!
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I don't think Trump has any prayer of abrogating the treaty Carter brokered, but if you can't see the strategic and economic benefits of controlling the only Pacific-Atlantic waterway over the >9500-mile length of North and South America, perhaps you shouldn't be in the business of calling someone else a bloviating idiot.
 
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Argent said:
At one time *Rump offered to buy Newfoundland, then he suggested Canada should become part of the US, and now he wants to take the Panama Canal. We can add land grabber to the list of his deficiencies.
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Don't forget his first term calling Canada's supply of aluminum product to the U.S. a "security risk" and warranting a tariff -why? Because the U.S. was buying too much of it. 🤔
Also, given mention of the Northwest Passage; some may find this interesting reading:
SS Manhattan.
 
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Doofus Donald remains his own worst enemy.
 
Carjosse said:
Alienating allies, especially those in the path of Chinese imperialistic ambitions is certainly not the way to oppose China.
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But from the perspective of some in the US, being diplomatic hasn't been particularly effective, either. It resulted in less control over the Canal and the rise of the fiercest global competitor since the USSR
 


Dumb MAGAs probably think the Panama Canal is some waterway in Panama City FL.
 
Well this is escalating quickly.

 
“Magnanimous gesture?” WTF is he talking about?
 
Looks like we'll be invading Mexico and Panama under Trump...
 
multivita-man said:
But from the perspective of some in the US, being diplomatic hasn't been particularly effective, either. It resulted in less control over the Canal and the rise of the fiercest global competitor since the USSR
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And it would be the same dumb people who think trade is a zero sum game. A completely fundamental misunderstanding and rejection of reality.
 
multivita-man said:
But from the perspective of some in the US, being diplomatic hasn't been particularly effective, either. It resulted in less control over the Canal and the rise of the fiercest global competitor since the USSR
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Do you imagine, even for a moment, that if we wanted to move assets through the canal that we'd take no for an answer?
 
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