North Carolina judges block voter ID law, saying it discriminates against Black people

[HangLow]

The number of migrants apprehended by Border Patrol at the U.S.-Mexico border in 2018—396,579 people—was the fifth lowest total since 1973. The number of adult migrants traveling without families (239,331) was almost certainly the second-lowest total since 1970.
40 percent of apprehended migrants were children and family members. That’s a new record, and was unthinkable as recently as 2012, when this proportion reached 10 percent for the first time.

Mid-2017 testimony from Border Patrol Chief Carla Provost explains that of about 260,000 children who arrived unaccompanied during the previous nearly six years, only 159 were even suspected of gang affiliation. Of this 0.06 percent of unaccompanied kids, about 56 were suspected of MS-13 membership.

The U.S. Government’s 2018 Border Data Clearly Shows Why the Trump Administration is on the Wrong Track - WOLA

The president’s midterm-campaign rhetoric of “invasions” and “national emergencies” is distracting us from a vastly different reality at the border. This reality bears no resemblance to what the president describes in his rallies. But we do face a historic humanitarian crisis, and the U.S...

www.wola.org

Asylum Seekers & Refugees

To uphold the U.S. obligation to provide refuge for families, adults, and children seeking freedom from persecution, NIJC recommends:

immigrantjustice.org

Seeking asylum is legal under both domestic and international law—even during a pandemic. People arriving at the U.S. border have the right to request asylum without being criminalized, turned back to danger or separated from their families.
There is also a large backlog of asylum cases from unaccompanied children: over half of those who have crossed the U.S. border since 2014 (nearly 300,000) still have cases pending.

What is happening at the U.S. southern border?

Violence, climate change, rising poverty and COVID-19 are forcing thousands of people from Haiti, northern Central America and other places to flee their homes.

www.rescue.org

In 2019, a Center for Migration Studies of New York study found that for the seventh consecutive year, the number of visa overstays significantly surpassed the number of unauthorized border crossings; "from 2016-2017, people who overstayed their visas accounted for 62 percent of the newly undocumented, while 38 percent had crossed a border illegally."

Illegal immigration to the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

One of the links above explained that when fleeing Central American countries there is no way and no time for people to stop in the local embassy and pick up a handy little Visa card. and someone seeking asylum doesn't have to enter the US directly from the country.one is fleeing.

 

[weaver2]

We lived in a three story walk up in a lower working class neighborhood in the Boston area while a degree was being earned at a local university. There was a lot of emotional energy wasted on hate in the area: who was hated, what 'they' did that was hateful, what would be done to 'them' if possible, what the police should do about 'them'.

What I came to understand was that hate was an easier emotional state to spend one's time on than thinking something positive. Positive thinking requires mental sorting, focus and organization to keep thoughts on track. Hate structures your time without having to think about it. It doesn't have to be rational. It's effortless and the people that are easiest to hate are those closest to you and those most remote. So in this neighborhood the Irish hated the Italians, the Italians hated the Irish (but unfortunately they married each other and fought) and they both hated, liberals, unions and 'foreigners' defined as anybody that hadn't grown up in the neighborhood.

Hate is an easy distraction. Just give people a few simple minded reasons to hate and hate takes over completely consuming the time needed to think rationally. You are right, illegals are just a distraction from the real problem.

 

[Perotista]

North Carolina judges block voter ID law, saying it discriminates against Black people

A panel of North Carolina judges in a split decision blocked the state's voter ID law, saying it discriminates against Black people.

www.cnbc.com

Whether by discriminatory Jim Crow voting laws or by racial gerrymandering, Republicans are always working to stifle the votes of people of color.

If they put as much energy into formulating policies that appeal to all voters, they wouldn't need to rig the election process.

I don't know about North Carolina, but Georgia has been under court order to create as many majority minority, in Georgia, that majority black districts as possible. Our state legislature had redraw Georgia's maps four times if I remember right. In the end 5 of 14 districts were majority black. Makes sense in a way, Georgia is around 35% black. So by federal mandate, packing 70% or perhaps more, I don't know into 5 districts was federally mandated and federally court ordered.

So the question is, at least my question is, did that dilute black voting strength or enhance it? Was it stifling the black vote or enhancing the black vote? No doubt in my mind that this is federally, court ordered, legal gerrymandering. The results was from 2010-2018 Georgia's congressional delegation consisted of 9 Republicans, all white, 5 Democrats, all black. In 2018 McBath another black won CD-6 making it 8 republicans, 6 Democrats, all black.

As for Voter ID, why not? Or are you or should I say the judge is saying blacks are too dumb to be able to obtain an ID? Here in Georgia which has Voter ID, here's the list.

WHAT IDS ARE ACCEPTABLE?​

• Any valid state or federal government issued photo ID, including a free ID Card issued by your county registrar's office or the Georgia Department of Driver Services (DDS)
• A Georgia Driver's License, even if expired
• Valid employee photo ID from any branch, department, agency, or entity of the U.S. Government, Georgia, or any county, municipality, board, authority or other entity of this state
• Valid U.S. passport ID
• Valid U.S. military photo ID
• Valid tribal photo ID

Bring one of these six forms of identification to vote.

GEORGIA'S VOTER IDENTIFICATION CARD​

If you do not have one of the six acceptable forms of photo ID, the State of Georgia offers a free ID Card. An ID card can be issued at any county registrar's office or Department of Driver Services Office free of charge.

Georgia Voter Identification Requirements2 | Elections

So what's the dang problem?

 

[NWRatCon]

WHAT IDS ARE ACCEPTABLE?

• Any valid state or federal government issued photo ID, including a free ID Card issued by your county registrar's office or the Georgia Department of Driver Services (DDS)
• A Georgia Driver's License, even if expired
• Valid employee photo ID from any branch, department, agency, or entity of the U.S. Government, Georgia, or any county, municipality, board, authority or other entity of this state
• Valid U.S. passport ID
• Valid U.S. military photo ID
• Valid tribal photo ID

Bring one of these six forms of identification to vote.
...
So what's the dang problem?

I see two, immediately. First, how many people are not employees of any government entity, or member of a Tribe? The vast majority of the population. If you don't travel, no passport, and if you don't drive, no driver license.

So, how does one obtain "a free ID Card issued by your county registrar's office or the Georgia Department of Driver Services (DDS)? What do you have to take with you? How long does it take? How far do you have to travel? Are these "burdens"? That's the constitutional (and practical) issue. Simply saying "you can" is not sufficient.
issue

 

[What if...?]

FWIW, here's the NC Voter Registration Form. You have to provide a name, an address and a DOB. If you've never voted before you also need to provide something to verify your name and address. That "something" can be as little as a pay stub. For those that aren't aware, you can use any number of sites to simply make up a pay stub. Once you're registered you can request a mail in ballot and no ID is required for filing that either.

Now, with that information, how secure do you really think the NC voter system is? How difficult, with these meager controls, would it be for someone to just make up a fake name and fake DOB but use a real address and provide a fake pay stub or, better yet (in case someone thinks of that) use the online pay stub site to re-create a pay stub from a real employer but just use the fake name?

You know this from experience?

Sure does seem like a lot of felonious work to cast one vote.

Seems much easier to.pass a.law that makes it easy for a state legislature to simply overturn an election their side loses.

And that is definitely happening.

 

[What if...?]

There are a number of fundamental flaws in the "voter ID" arguments/laws. First, voting, unlike most of these other "voluntary" activities they like to trot out, is central to our governmental structure. Buying a gun, or liquor, or driving a car, or opening a bank account are not central to operating the country. We pick our leaders (at least in theory), so denying the franchise to any legitimate voter is antithetical to that concept, period.

Second, historically (and presently), barriers to voting are not used, or intended to apply, uniformly. Only certain populations are prevented from voting. Originally, non-landed people. But we can make a long list: blacks, women, poor people, illiterates, non-whites - and some of those are the same as current targets of discrimination. Add to previous lists students, renters, and urban-dwellers (who just happen to be more "liberal/democratic" in the main).

Third, ID requirements are not just ineffective, they are deliberately burdensome and expensive. It takes time and money to get a birth certificate - and for some people, it is literally impossible. The average cost of obtaining a birth certificate in the United States is $50.00, and takes 6-8 weeks, and - here's the kicker - often requires proof of identity ID to get it. THEN there is the time required to get the government issued ID itself, which can take hours, may be limited to certain hours and locations, require multiple trips, and need to be updated every time you change address to be "valid".

There's much more, but there are character limitations.

A simple thing puts the lie to voter ID requirements.

Not one is accompanied by free ID "drives" with money to facilitate budgeted in the same bills. On the contrary, they are often accompanied by DMV closures where they might be utilized by undesireable voters.

If those drives were included, no one would have an excuse.

But they aren't, so their true purpose is exposed.

 

[What if...?]

I see two, immediately. First, how many people are not employees of any government entity, or member of a Tribe? The vast majority of the population. If you don't travel, no passport, and if you don't drive, no driver license.

So, how does one obtain "a free ID Card issued by your county registrar's office or the Georgia Department of Driver Services (DDS)? What do you have to take with you? How long does it take? How far do you have to travel? Are these "burdens"? That's the constitutional (and practical) issue. Simply saying "you can" is not sufficient.
issue

Kinda like "Everybody can buy a Ferrari".

 

[gdgyva]

That's not an example. It's an opinion. If it's so "easy," there'd be lots of examples, right?

It is an opinion

But it also it NOT being checked in states that dont require ID's

How would it be?

See...one of the issues you all keep bringing up is there are NO CASES OF FRAUD or very few

That is true....but who is checking for fraud in that type of way? Really....who?

NO ONE

Kinda hard to catch anyone committing voter fraud when no one is checking for ID's isnt it?

You all keep saying we dont need a law to protect against something that doesnt occur....

How do you know if NO ONE is checking?

Trying to come up with an analogy that is even close....

Getting everyone a government issued free ID would eliminate ANY POSSIBILITY of widespread fraud

If we can do this easily....WHY NOT?

 

[reflechissez]

It is an opinion

But it also it NOT being checked in states that dont require ID's

How would it be?

See...one of the issues you all keep bringing up is there are NO CASES OF FRAUD or very few

That is true....but who is checking for fraud in that type of way? Really....who?

NO ONE

Kinda hard to catch anyone committing voter fraud when no one is checking for ID's isnt it?

You all keep saying we dont need a law to protect against something that doesnt occur....

How do you know if NO ONE is checking?

Trying to come up with an analogy that is even close....

Getting everyone a government issued free ID would eliminate ANY POSSIBILITY of widespread fraud

If we can do this easily....WHY NOT?

I just can't.

 

[NWRatCon]

It is simply AMAZING to see the exact same posters agitating for "Voter ID" and universal ID cards, that post exactly the opposite on, for example, 2nd Amendment and anti-vax threads, and I've seen some rail about the threat of national ID cards as being the precursor to a Nazi takeover. They do this without irony, because they have the ethics of a cockroach and think everyone else has the memory of a goldfish.

 

[NWRatCon]

Kinda like "Everybody can buy a Ferrari".

I note, for the record, that none of them have addressed the legal standard.... really, ever. They just spout/shout the same nonsense over and over and think that is the way to discuss a topic. It's just childish.

 

[weaver2]

Georgia Voter Identification Requirements2 | Elections

So what's the dang problem?

Changes to Georgia elections
Absentee ballots will be verified based on driver’s license numbers or other documentation instead of voter signatures.
"Other" is a vaguely defined Id from a State issuing office also not defined or spelled out.

Ballot drop boxes will only be allowed inside early voting locations and available strictly during business hours.
Anything accessible only during business hours makes that activity inaccessible to most low wage workers. What it also doesn't say is that this will happen in city voting districts that already have very few drop boxes.

Weekend voting will be expanded for general elections, with two mandatory Saturdays offered statewide. Counties could also choose to offer early voting on two optional Sundays.
The one positive change. Georgia has used this one change to claim that they have expanded voting rights.

Early voting for runoffs will be reduced to a minimum of one week because runoffs will occur four weeks after general elections.
Reduction in amount of time to prepare for run-offs. Puts pressure on larger population Black districts

The deadline to request an absentee ballot will be set 11 days before election day.
Reduction in number of days to request absentee ballot

Members of the public will be prohibited from distributing food or water to voters waiting in line. Election workers are allowed to set up self-service water stations for voters in line.
Restricts friends, relatives from offering food and drinks to people having to stand in the long lines. In whose district does that happen?

The State Election Board could remove county election boards and replace them with an interim elections manager.
This turns Democratic districts, mostly Black over to Republican managers, mostly white.

A hotline to report illegal election activities will be set up in the attorney general’s office.
Who do you think will be reporting illegal actions and who do you think will be taking care of those illegal actions?

Counties will be required to certify election results within six days, instead of the 10 days currently allowed. Election workers will also be required to count ballots without stopping until they’re finished.
This will hurt heavily populated city distracts, already understaffed: these are mostly Black districts. .
Source: Senate Bill 202

https://www.ajc.com/politics/bill-changing-georgia-voting-rules-passes-state-house/MATS6SRA77HTOBVEMTJLIT4/

The changes have focused on gerrymandering to create districts that are all Black then focused on district rather than individual restriction. No one restriction is glaringly biased but taken all together they amount to a significant restriction of the Black and poor voter. They've made absentee voting almost impossible in these districts. The No Food or Drink restrictions is just plain evil. The number of diabetics that require food at regular intervals is very high among Black populations. Someone has to get food to them if they experience the frequent 3-6 hour waits that happen in those districts.

 

[weaver2]

I see two, immediately. First, how many people are not employees of any government entity, or member of a Tribe? The vast majority of the population. If you don't travel, no passport, and if you don't drive, no driver license.

So, how does one obtain "a free ID Card issued by your county registrar's office or the Georgia Department of Driver Services (DDS)? What do you have to take with you? How long does it take? How far do you have to travel? Are these "burdens"? That's the constitutional (and practical) issue. Simply saying "you can" is not sufficient.
issue

Pennsylvania tried a neat variation on the above theme. They required a state voter ID card if you didn't have a drivers license which you could obtain from a special office of the Pennsylvania DMV. The special offices were located in areas unserved by pubic transportation, were open two days a week and during random business hours. The card cost $25 and you had to wait 2 weeks before it arrived. The law was declared unconstitutional.

 

[NWRatCon]

Pennsylvania tried a neat variation on the above theme. They required a state voter ID card if you didn't have a drivers license which you could obtain from a special office of the Pennsylvania DMV. The special offices were located in areas unserved by pubic transportation, were open two days a week and during random business hours. The card cost $25 and you had to wait 2 weeks before it arrived. The law was declared unconstitutional.

Do you have citations for this? I'd like to research it more.

 

[weaver2]

It is an opinion
But it also it NOT being checked in states that dont require ID's How would it be?
See...one of the issues you all keep bringing up is there are NO CASES OF FRAUD or very few
That is true....but who is checking for fraud in that type of way? Really....who? NO ONE
Kinda hard to catch anyone committing voter fraud when no one is checking for ID's isnt it?
You all keep saying we dont need a law to protect against something that doesnt occur....

Here's the experience with checking on voter fraud in Maine. This happened about 10 years ago. Republicans lost an election and the great "Voter Fraud"cry went up. They claimed Democrats were:
bussing out of state people in to vote.
emptying out the residents of nursing homes, taking them to polling places and making them vote Democratic l state letting college students not illegally in state and then in their home state.

Republicans insisted on an investigation. So the legislature set up a neutral investigation committee. They spent a year investigating the past 10 years of voting. Here's what they found
*Democrats had never rented any buses during any elections. However in the last election (that the committee was investigating) the Republicans in Lewiston (? I think it was Lewiston) had rented all the available buses and hidden them in an unspecified location so Democrats couldn't rent any buses.
*One voter in the Portland area cast two votes. This voter had recently moved and the committee thought this might have been a case of confusion about changing precincts.
*And one college student had voted in Orono (home of the Uni. of Maine) and then gone home to New Hampshire and voted again. The student's father was chairman of the Republican Committee for his district in NH.

To the Democrats credit the committee report was accepted seriously and nobody broke out in raucous laughter. To the Republicans discredit they never said the report was wrong but they kept right on insisting that there was rampant voter fraud in Maine. The next election cycle they elected the man that foreshadowed Trump ......... Paul LePage.

 

[weaver2]

Do you have citations for this? I'd like to research it more.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/decision2012/pennsylvania-voter-id-law-enforcement-halted-by-judge/2012/10/02/bf240ffc-0c9d-11e2-bb5e-492c0d30bff6_story.html

This also has links to the law itself. I didn't review the law before posting and it's been 7 years since the law was enacted so specific details of my rendition may need corrections.

 

[gdgyva]

Here's the experience with checking on voter fraud in Maine. This happened about 10 years ago. Republicans lost an election and the great "Voter Fraud"cry went up. They claimed Democrats were:
bussing out of state people in to vote.
emptying out the residents of nursing homes, taking them to polling places and making them vote Democratic l state letting college students not illegally in state and then in their home state.

Republicans insisted on an investigation. So the legislature set up a neutral investigation committee. They spent a year investigating the past 10 years of voting. Here's what they found
*Democrats had never rented any buses during any elections. However in the last election (that the committee was investigating) the Republicans in Lewiston (? I think it was Lewiston) had rented all the available buses and hidden them in an unspecified location so Democrats couldn't rent any buses.
*One voter in the Portland area cast two votes. This voter had recently moved and the committee thought this might have been a case of confusion about changing precincts.
*And one college student had voted in Orono (home of the Uni. of Maine) and then gone home to New Hampshire and voted again. The student's father was chairman of the Republican Committee for his district in NH.

To the Democrats credit the committee report was accepted seriously and nobody broke out in raucous laughter. To the Republicans discredit they never said the report was wrong but they kept right on insisting that there was rampant voter fraud in Maine. The next election cycle they elected the man that foreshadowed Trump ......... Paul LePage.

I am saying we DONT KNOW if there is voter fraud...because in reality, we dont check for it

there probably is little to none

But why even take a chance on it happening? When with voter ID it can be almost completely done away with with little or no error

We provide the ID's free of charge....and once in the database in a state, if you move, you reapply in your new state

We have what 92-93% of the voting population with ID's already? So let's get the other 7-8% covered and make sure our elections are actually as close to fraud proof protected as possible

 

[What if...?]

I note, for the record, that none of them have addressed the legal standard.... really, ever. They just spout/shout the same nonsense over and over and think that is the way to discuss a topic. It's just childish.

I also find it amusing that the right used to be so proud of our "paperless democracy". "Your papers, please" being a trope to talk shit about totalitarian regimes.

How much you wanna bet that died concurrent with the republicans realizing they were being left behind by the voters of the country?

 

[weaver2]

I am saying we DONT KNOW if there is voter fraud...because in reality, we dont check for it

there probably is little to none

But why even take a chance on it happening? When with voter ID it can be almost completely done away with with little or no error

We provide the ID's free of charge....and once in the database in a state, if you move, you reapply in your new state

We have what 92-93% of the voting population with ID's already? So let's get the other 7-8% covered and make sure our elections are actually as close to fraud proof protected as possible

I'm pretty sure that Maine isn't the only state that investigated voter fraud. You are looking for a problem to fit your solution.

The thing is voter fraud isn't committed by individuals; it's done by legislatures. The voter laws Georgia just enacted are designed to keep Black and poor votes from being cast and counted and give excessive weight to White middle class votes. For massive fraud that actually changes elections you need disenfranchisement and for that you need a political party bent of making laws and revisions. Voter ID cards don't have any effect on that kind of political maneuvering.

However, I expect Republicans will get so tiresome about voter fraud that we will eventually have to have voter ID cards. This ought to be done by the federal government since states can't be trusted. And it better be done with mobile units, open 24/7 that issue instant cards (if Costco can do instant picture membership cards then so can the government)at $0.00 so everybody has a chance to get a picture ID.

Maybe we should charge the Republican Party for the cost of these nationwide IDs since they are the ones that do all the whining about voter fraud.

 

[HangLow]

The number of migrants apprehended by Border Patrol at the U.S.-Mexico border in 2018—396,579 people—was the fifth lowest total since 1973. The number of adult migrants traveling without families (239,331) was almost certainly the second-lowest total since 1970.
40 percent of apprehended migrants were children and family members. That’s a new record, and was unthinkable as recently as 2012, when this proportion reached 10 percent for the first time.

Mid-2017 testimony from Border Patrol Chief Carla Provost explains that of about 260,000 children who arrived unaccompanied during the previous nearly six years, only 159 were even suspected of gang affiliation. Of this 0.06 percent of unaccompanied kids, about 56 were suspected of MS-13 membership.

The U.S. Government’s 2018 Border Data Clearly Shows Why the Trump Administration is on the Wrong Track - WOLA

The president’s midterm-campaign rhetoric of “invasions” and “national emergencies” is distracting us from a vastly different reality at the border. This reality bears no resemblance to what the president describes in his rallies. But we do face a historic humanitarian crisis, and the U.S...

www.wola.org

Asylum Seekers & Refugees

To uphold the U.S. obligation to provide refuge for families, adults, and children seeking freedom from persecution, NIJC recommends:

immigrantjustice.org

Seeking asylum is legal under both domestic and international law—even during a pandemic. People arriving at the U.S. border have the right to request asylum without being criminalized, turned back to danger or separated from their families.
There is also a large backlog of asylum cases from unaccompanied children: over half of those who have crossed the U.S. border since 2014 (nearly 300,000) still have cases pending.

What is happening at the U.S. southern border?

Violence, climate change, rising poverty and COVID-19 are forcing thousands of people from Haiti, northern Central America and other places to flee their homes.

www.rescue.org

In 2019, a Center for Migration Studies of New York study found that for the seventh consecutive year, the number of visa overstays significantly surpassed the number of unauthorized border crossings; "from 2016-2017, people who overstayed their visas accounted for 62 percent of the newly undocumented, while 38 percent had crossed a border illegally."

Illegal immigration to the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

One of the links above explained that when fleeing Central American countries there is no way and no time for people to stop in the local embassy and pick up a handy little Visa card. and someone seeking asylum doesn't have to enter the US directly from the country.one is fleeing.

 

[lurchadams]

From that link:

"The governor of Tennessee, who's a Republican, by the way - he has expressed concern about the average wait times there, which extend well beyond an hour. And if you're talking about thousands of elderly, in particular, they can't wait that long."

ER MER GERD!!! The horrors! I might have to invest an hour of my time getting a free ID from my state so I can vote.

Good grief, there is no legit excuse for not having an ID. Go get one. Stop making weak excuses.

From your post:

ER MER GERD!!! The horrors! I might have to invest an hour of my time getting a free ID from my state so I can vote.

1. It's not free, at least not in my state.
2. If you live in a rural area, or have limited transportation opportunities, it'll take more than an hour - MUCH more.
3. Poor people don't have access to needed documents required to get ID, like birth certificates, etc.

Just like the TX abortion law, these voter ID laws target poor people. The GOP is gambling that these people who don't have the resources to get gov't ID will just give up have their daddy's rape child and not vote.

**** the Republicans.