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Non-believers: What would make you believe in God?

LuckyDan

LuckyDan

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Be He the God of Judeo-Christianity or of the ancient Greeks. A supreme being.

PS - I'm also interested in hearing from anyone who used to be an atheist or agnostic who later came to faith. What changed your mind?
 
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She'd have to show herself and smite someone before my very eyes, then demand unconditional worship or else. Hopefully it'll be Eris and not that deranged Yahweh character.
 
Arcana XV said:
She'd have to show herself and smite someone before my very eyes, then demand unconditional worship or else. Hopefully it'll be Eris and not that deranged Yahweh character.
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So, seeing would be believing? Okay. Thanks. But what if it were Yaweh?
 
I used to be an atheist. I was not the asshole militant type who liked to destroy the arguments of those who believed in God, but I would definitely love to debate the subject. To say the least, belief in God, of any variety, it is a powerful thread of human and social consciousness in the world. I evolved my statement about God to the point where I would say:
I don't believe in God, but I believe in the concept of God.
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Being an unmedicated Bipolar sufferer, back 4-5 years ago, I cycled into mania. Often this can come with delusions with religious under/over-tones. Such was the case with me. I thought that I was damned and going to hell and that demons were chasing me. I also thought I had special powers. This lasted about 4 months and saw me doing some crazy ass **** like running across a busy highway, cars going around 50+ miles an hour, with my eyes closed, and jumping off bridges and going swimming in Puget Sound in the dead of winter for half an hour. I fled to Vancouver and almost lost my job. I thought that government agents were also chasing me.

I developed to the point where I simultaneously believed in God, even loved God, yet also was in mortal fear for my soul. I grew to be truly terrified. You cannot imagine how fear filled me for days on end. Never have I felt such fear before. It lasted weeks.

Certain things happened to me which forced me to believe even more strongly in God. To love God more and more. It finally reach a point of culmination whereby with all of my love for God, with all of my heart and soul and with no doubts of my belief, I asked for God's help in relieving my fear. My mortal fear of weeks disappeared instantly and a warmth and tingling descended upon me.

I have no doubts in my belief in God nor in my love for God. God answers your prayers.

Good luck.
 
That's a hell of a journey, Reef. Thanks for your candor. Best to you.
 
Arcana XV said:
I'd beg him to smite me.
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O'Hair did something similar, I heard, to prove that there is no God.

But if you remained unsmote, would you then say that He must therefore not be God? Or would you conclude he is merciful?
 
LuckyDan said:
AH. Of course. But why would you want to be smitten?
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Because as Gods go, he's pretty messed up. His son is cool, tho. Maybe Yahweh's retired by now and Jesus took over the Godly family business. But then, of course, he would have figured out a way to make me believe without violence.
 
What would make me believe in God? His/her existence, natch.

The fact that I don't believe in God means that at least one facet, omnipotence, is clearly false. I've heard the omnipotence vs. free will debate but the fact remains, if you voluntarily give up omnipotence in order to bestow the gift of free will, you are no longer omnipotent, not until you decide to take it back. Any theologian out there able to set me straight?
 
Andalublue said:
What would make me believe in God? His/her existence, natch.

The fact that I don't believe in God means that at least one facet, omnipotence, is clearly false. I've heard the omnipotence vs. free will debate but the fact remains, if you voluntarily give up omnipotence in order to bestow the gift of free will, you are no longer omnipotent, not until you decide to take it back. Any theologian out there able to set me straight?
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God is omnipotent. Man has freewill. This seeming paradox is resolved by man's decisions being his own through freewill, but God having foreknowledge about what choices man will make.
 
reefedjib said:
God is omnipotent. Man has freewill. This seeming paradox is resolved by man's decisions being his own through freewill, but God having foreknowledge about what choices man will make.
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If God knows, then we're incapable of not making the choice he knows we're going to make.
 
If God could give me the power to understand women and turn bad feelings into spicy tuna rolls.... then I would believe.
 
spud_meister said:
If God knows, then we're incapable of not making the choice he knows we're going to make.
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We are capable of making any choice we decide. Just because God knows what choice that will be does not mean that God preordained our decision.
 
reefedjib said:
We are capable of making any choice we decide. Just because God knows what choice that will be does not mean that God preordained our decision.
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Of course it does, if God knows what we're going to do, but we make another choice, then he's not omnipotent because he didn't know we were going to make that choice, and if he does know what we're going to do, then we have to do it, and the choice is merely an illusion of us fulfilling what he knew we were going to do.

(****, this making me wanna watch The Matrix again)
 
spud_meister said:
Of course it does, if God knows what we're going to do, but we make another choice, then he's not omnipotent because he didn't know we were going to make that choice, and if he does know what we're going to do, then we have to do it, and the choice is merely an illusion of us fulfilling what he knew we were going to do.

(****, this making me wanna watch The Matrix again)
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We are not forced to make the decision we make. God simply knows what the choice is that we independently decide. He doesn't make us do anything he just knows the outcome.
 
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reefedjib said:
We are not forced to make the decision we make. God simply knows what the choice is that we independently decide. He doesn't make us do anything he just knows the outcome.
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But if He knows the outcome, then we can't change it, and any choices we make are empty gestures.
 
Arcana XV said:
Because as Gods go, he's pretty messed up. His son is cool, tho. Maybe Yahweh's retired by now and Jesus took over the Godly family business. But then, of course, he would have figured out a way to make me believe without violence.
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So is it that you don't believe in him because you don't like him? If he were sweet and gentle and made sure nothing bad ever happened - then you'd believe?
 
LuckyDan said:
Be He the God of Judeo-Christianity or of the ancient Greeks. A supreme being.

PS - I'm also interested in hearing from anyone who used to be an atheist or agnostic who later came to faith. What changed your mind?
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I believe there *might* be a God-like entity but I *don't* believe it's the "God" in the way many religions deify him.

As far as "the Christian God" or whatever - there is no story that anyone could tell me that would make me go back to being a believer. . .they're all stories to me.

While others believing is good *for them* or it *gives their life meaning* - I simply have no need to fill in that way.
 
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