Noah’s Ark

[Questerr]

See Post #6. Plus, Jesus mentioned Noah and he's got good creds with me.

Jesus also believed a fig tree out of season should have fits and then cursed the tree when it didn’t have them.

 

[Logicman]

I suspect god is just a malevolent douche.

Dawkins thought the same thing. I think I also recall him believing that man was inherently good. And if that's true, then who did all those evil things throughout history? Who killed all those people throughout history – hundreds of millions of them? And who wrote the Old Testament about a so-called evil God? The answer is his own vaunted humanity. And it was thus humanity who manufactured the "evil" God that you and Dawkins deny. ROTFLOL.

 

[Daisy]

Jesus also believed a fig tree out of season should have fits and then cursed the tree when it didn’t have them.

Here...let me explain to you the deeper meaning, which you obviously don't get...

Appearances Can Be Deceptive

“THERE is no trusting appearances,” said Irish dramatist Richard Sheridan. This is true of trees as well as people.

One day in late March in the year 33 C.E., Jesus Christ saw a fig tree as he and his disciples were walking from Bethany to Jerusalem. The tree was in full leaf, but closer inspection revealed that it had no fruit whatsoever. Jesus therefore said to it: “Let no one eat fruit from you anymore forever.”—Mark 11:12-14.

Why did Jesus curse that tree since, as Mark explains, “it was not the season of figs”? (Mark 11:13) Well, when a fig tree bears leaves, normally it also produces early figs. It was unusual for a fig tree to have leaves at that time of year. But since it had leaves, Jesus rightly expected to find figs on it. (See the picture above.) The fact that the tree had borne only leaves meant that it would be unproductive. Its appearance was deceptive. Since fruit trees were taxed, an unfruitful tree was an economic burden and needed to be cut down.

Jesus used that unfruitful fig tree to illustrate a vital lesson regarding faith. The following day, his disciples were surprised to see that the tree had already withered. Jesus explained: “Have faith in God. . . . All the things you pray and ask for have faith that you have practically received, and you will have them.” (Mark 11:22-24) In addition to illustrating the need to pray in faith, the withered fig tree graphically showed what would happen to a nation lacking faith.

Some months earlier Jesus had compared the Jewish nation to a fig tree that had been unfruitful for three years and would be cut down if it remained unproductive. (Luke 13:6-9) By cursing the fig tree just four days before his death, Jesus showed how the Jewish nation had not produced fruits befitting repentance and thus was in line for destruction. Though that nation—like the fig tree—superficially appeared healthy, a closer look revealed a lack of faith that culminated in the rejection of the Messiah.—Luke 3:8, 9.

In his Sermon on the Mount, Jesus warned against “false prophets” and said: “By their fruits you will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? Likewise every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit; a good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, neither can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. Every tree not producing fine fruit gets cut down and thrown into the fire. Really, then, by their fruits you will recognize those men.” (Matthew 7:15-20) These words of Jesus and the account of the cursed fig tree clearly show that we need to be on guard spiritually, for religious appearances can also be deceptive.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1992849?q=jesus+cursed+the+fig+tree&p=sen

 

[Ug make hammer]

Men aren't born or created evil. Duh.

Your description amounts to "it could be worse therefore God is intervening benevolently" and is easily refuted by "it could also be better"

If one murder is all it takes to damn a person (or "man") then why isn't that the limit? God could block further murders, or remove the sinner as soon as it's apparent they are unrepentant? God could at least guide investigators so every time there's a murder, the survivors see justice is done.

 

[Daisy]

Your description amounts to "it could be worse therefore God is intervening benevolently" and is easily refuted by "it could also be better"

If one murder is all it takes to damn a person (or "man") then why isn't that the limit? God could block further murders, or remove the sinner as soon as it's apparent they are unrepentant? God could at least guide investigators so every time there's a murder, the survivors see justice is done.

OR...Jehovah God could leave things alone, allow people to choose and learn for themselves that He definitely knows what is best for them, and then allow those who get it, to live in a new world consisting of love and peace because they WANT to...

 

[Ug make hammer]

Here...let me explain to you the deeper meaning, which you obviously don't get...


https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1992849?q=jesus+cursed+the+fig+tree&p=sen

Why does the theologian feels the need to torture logic so ruthlessly?

The story reflects very badly on Jesus. He was NOT doing the owner of the tree a favor. Both Mathew and Mark note that Jesus was hungry and went to the tree. Interpreting his curse (when he could instead have blessed the tree) as anything but human bad temper, is not justified by the text.

 

[Ug make hammer]

OR...Jehovah God could leave things alone, allow people to choose and learn for themselves that He definitely knows what is best for them, and then allow those who get it, to live in a new world consisting of love and peace because they WANT to...

Logicman didn't say "leave things alone" though. How about you make your own arguments instead of trying to rescue his?

 

[Nickyjo]

I've often wondered the same thing... If people's actions back then pissed god off, god must be steaming right now.

BTW, I've always believed that most stories in the bible are just that... Stories... But the Noah's ark story is one of those that might have at least some truth to it.

.

From what I have heard, many religious tradition speak of some catastrophic flood in ancient times, so presumably something like that occurred. Best account I have heard about how this might have happened:

bill cosby noah full - Google Search

www.google.com

 

[Nickyjo]

Why does the theologian feels the need to torture logic so ruthlessly?

The story reflects very badly on Jesus. He was NOT doing the owner of the tree a favor. Both Mathew and Mark note that Jesus was hungry and went to the tree. Interpreting his curse (when he could instead have blessed the tree) as anything but human bad temper, is not justified by the text.

As a gay guy pointed out some time ago, Jesus, aka God, didn't curse fags, he cursed figs. The misprint in this story as it was passed down has has long term consequences.

 

[Daisy]

Logicman didn't say "leave things alone" though. How about you make your own arguments instead of trying to rescue his?

I was countering yours...

 

[Daisy]

Why does the theologian feels the need to torture logic so ruthlessly?

The story reflects very badly on Jesus. He was NOT doing the owner of the tree a favor. Both Mathew and Mark note that Jesus was hungry and went to the tree. Interpreting his curse (when he could instead have blessed the tree) as anything but human bad temper, is not justified by the text.

You didn't get the deeper meaning ,either...got it...

 

[Ug make hammer]

From what I have heard, many religious tradition speak of some catastrophic flood in ancient times, so presumably something like that occurred.

More likely different floods in different places. At different times.
One global flood would leave an unmistakeable layer of sediment in widely spread fossil records.

The Biblical account seems to come from TWO DIFFERENT Sumerian accounts, because:

Genesis 6:19-20 says one male and one female of each animal:

"And of every living thing, of all flesh, you shall bring two of every kind into the ark, to keep them alive with you; they shall be male and female. Of the birds according to their kinds, and of the animals according to their kinds, of every creeping thing of the ground according to its kind, two of every kind shall come in to you, to keep them alive."

But Genesis 7:2-3 states:

"Take with you seven pairs of all clean animals, the male and its mate; and a pair of the animals that are not clean, the male and its mate; and seven pairs of the birds of the air also, male and female, to keep their kind alive on the face of all the earth."

And, Genesis 7:17 states that the flood lasted 40 days:

"The flood continued forty days on the earth; and the waters increased, and bore up the ark, and it rose high above the earth."

While Genesis 7:24 says:

"And the waters swelled on the earth for one hundred fifty days."

Then Genesis 8:6 says:

"At the end of forty days Noah opened the window of the ark that he had made."

It's unlikely these were copying errors, since they're in the same book. Whoever wrote it down was trying to give credit to previously existing texts.

 

[Ug make hammer]

I was countering yours...

Surely you can see you have zero chance of persuading me.

Why not take issue with the "interventionist god" posited by Logicman, instead:

That's nonsense. God’s Judgments saves lives

Here's how it works: How many people would 100 evil men kill in their lifetimes? Let's say a thousand, and the 100 evil men wind up in hell when they die. Now, let's let those 100 evil men have 100 offspring that over time grow up to kill an additional 1,000 people. Now, you have 200 evil men in hell and 2,000 murdered others.

Now let's take it to the 10th or so generation. By now, you've had 10,000 evil men giving birth to 10,000 offspring and together those 20,000 evil men and/or women murder 200,000 people total. So, you now have 20,000 evil men and women in hell (vs. 100 if you had judged and executed them earlier), plus 200,000 other dead people.

So, God, being smarter than his critics, and able to see consequences further out in time than the mathematically-challenged "God is evil" crowd, saves 19,900 people from going to hell plus he saves 199,000 others from getting murdered. And he does that by stopping the bloodshed before it gets rolling.

Get the picture? God Judgment saves lives, and saves multitudes from winding up in Hell.

 

[Gordy327]

Dawkins thought the same thing. I think I also recall him believing that man was inherently good. And if that's true, then who did all those evil things throughout history? Who killed all those people throughout history – hundreds of millions of them? And who wrote the Old Testament about a so-called evil God? The answer is his own vaunted humanity. And it was thus humanity who manufactured the "evil" God that you and Dawkins deny. ROTFLOL.

An objective analysis of the bible is enough to show the evil god commits. Of course, theistic sycophants always give god a free pass and don't hold him to the same standards he supposedly sets, which only make god look like a hypocrite.

 

[Questerr]

Here...let me explain to you the deeper meaning, which you obviously don't get...


https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1992849?q=jesus+cursed+the+fig+tree&p=sen

The apologetics don’t change is ignorant vindictiveness of the story.

 

[Daisy]

Surely you can see you have zero chance of persuading me.

Why not take issue with the "interventionist god" posited by Logicman, instead:

LM knows I don't believe in a conscious hell so there's no point in tackling his post...what I took issue with is yours...as you can see, neither makes sense...

 

[Ug make hammer]

LM knows I don't believe in a conscious hell so there's no point in tackling his post...what I took issue with is yours...as you can see, neither makes sense...

Well I don't believe in hell either, so don't argue with me. On the theological scale I don't believe in free choice, it's an illusion created by lack of complete information.

 

[Daisy]

Well I don't believe in hell either, so don't argue with me. On the theological scale I don't believe in free choice, it's an illusion created by lack of complete information.

Yet, you have it, don't you?

 

[Logicman]

Your description amounts to "it could be worse therefore God is intervening benevolently" and is easily refuted by "it could also be better":

Sure, it could get better, but it didn't. God gave the Amorites some 400 years to turn themselves around. But they didn't.

If one murder is all it takes to damn a person (or "man") then why isn't that the limit?

What? You want God to cast all those pro-abortion liberals into Hell for supporting and/or killing the innocent unborn the first time out? Wouldn't be many libs left.

 

[Logicman]

An objective analysis of the bible is enough to show the evil god commits.

First, your version of having an objective analysis on that is laughable. You don't even have an objective moral foundation to make that call. Yours is subjective.

Second, you're doing what most liberals do - confusing murder with justice. Sad....

 

[Ug make hammer]

You didn't get the deeper meaning ,either...got it...

I don't buy that Jesus does some miracles from compassion, but then when he does a bad miracle it's meant to have a "deeper meaning".

I require consistency, and if Jesus doesn't have it then I certainly don't expect it of Christians.

Yet, you have it, don't you?

I have the illusion of it. How would I know if my choices are free or not?

 

[Daisy]

I don't buy that Jesus does some miracles from compassion, but then when he does a bad miracle it's meant to have a "deeper meaning".

I require consistency, and if Jesus doesn't have it then I certainly don't expect it of Christians.

His miracle was to make a valid point...Jesus always made a valid point with each and every word...each and every act...he was consistant...as are true Christians...

 

[Ug make hammer]

His miracle was to make a valid point...Jesus always made a valid point with each and every word...each and every act...he was consistant...as are true Christians...

You're not seeing it from the point of view of the owner of the fruit tree.

 

[Daisy]

You're not seeing it from the point of view of the owner of the fruit tree.

lol...I'm sure he survived...

 

[Questerr]

lol...I'm sure he survived...

Based on what? Does the Bible say so or are you basing that on man-made teachings?