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"No Hell" Pastor

roguenuke

roguenuke

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I saw this issue of Time at the NEX and wondered if I just might have missed a discussion about this guy because he seems to be bringing up a very debatable subject to me.

TIME Cover: No Hell? Pastor Rob Bell Angers Evangelicals - TIME

How controversial is this? Do you agree or disagree with him? Do you think he is just trying to sell his book or his message or that he really believes it? Will it catch on?

I have similar questions that he brings up because I wonder a lot if people adopt at the very least certain religious views from fear, which doesn't seem to me like a very good thing to base belief off of. That threat of going to hell for not believing in the Bible (especially some religious group's or person's personal view on messages of the Bible) is actually one of the biggest reasons that I am no longer Christian.
 
It's always been a mystery to me how people can believe in an all powerful, merciful, loving god that would be willing to send his own creations to burn in a firey hell full of torture and anguish where you will suffer, scream and cry for all eternity...

Yep, makes complete sense.
 
Yeah, he was on the cover of last week's TIME. Interesting take on "hell," although personally I don't think how one can believe that Heaven exists without also believing that Hell does as well. Can't have all the good without the evil right?
 
StillBallin75 said:
Yeah, he was on the cover of last week's TIME. Interesting take on "hell," although personally I don't think how one can believe that Heaven exists without also believing that Hell does as well. Can't have all the good without the evil right?
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I personally do believe there is a hell, but that it is reserved for only truly evil people, not just those who don't happen to believe nit-picky points of a book or from religious leaders.
 
roguenuke said:
I personally do believe there is a hell, but that it is reserved for only truly evil people, not just those who don't happen to believe nit-picky points of a book or from religious leaders.
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Agreed. IIRC our religious/spiritual beliefs are rather similar. I do think there is a place for truly evil people, and that they deserve no mercy, even from an all-merciful God.
 
God will send you to the fiery pits of doom and watch and let your burn for eternity. But just remember he still loves you :kissy:
 
I'm a Christian and I believe Rob Bell is deceived if he believes there is no hell. We send ourselves to hell with our own sin that demands judgement. God died for us and paid our penalty so that we can go to heaven if only we repent and ask for it. Hell does not negate God's love and it's never His desire to see people go there.
 
" .... he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time! But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good .... story."
-George Carlin

Pretty much sums up what the notion of hell is about. It's to scare you into piety.

Christianity is the first major religion to endorse permanent hell. All others that came before said that hell is temporary, just as this place is, and most of us have probably spent some time there. You go there to expend all your negative karma, and once it's used up you're born into a higher birth, like a human one.

The idea that there is a God up there with a check list of who has done wrong is absurd. The Ten Commandments are about your own self-governance and how you are influencing the direction of your own soul. There is no supreme being watching you to make sure you get your just deserts. That is a complete fabrication.
 
roguenuke said:
I saw this issue of Time at the NEX and wondered if I just might have missed a discussion about this guy because he seems to be bringing up a very debatable subject to me.

TIME Cover: No Hell? Pastor Rob Bell Angers Evangelicals - TIME

How controversial is this? Do you agree or disagree with him? Do you think he is just trying to sell his book or his message or that he really believes it? Will it catch on?

I have similar questions that he brings up because I wonder a lot if people adopt at the very least certain religious views from fear, which doesn't seem to me like a very good thing to base belief off of. That threat of going to hell for not believing in the Bible (especially some religious group's or person's personal view on messages of the Bible) is actually one of the biggest reasons that I am no longer Christian.
Click to expand...

Do I think a person trying to sell a book about the afterlife - as if they have any idea what happens after someone dies - is a "just trying to sell a book"? Yes, yes I do, because any reasonable person knows they have literally zero idea what happens after we die. You might as well ask your dog.
 
God has his domain, called Heaven, and he chooses who gets to live with him and who does not. People unwelcome in Heaven have to find somewhere else to spend eternity; Christians call this existence Hell.
 
A perfect shepherd loses no sheep.
 
roguenuke said:
I saw this issue of Time at the NEX and wondered if I just might have missed a discussion about this guy because he seems to be bringing up a very debatable subject to me.

TIME Cover: No Hell? Pastor Rob Bell Angers Evangelicals - TIME

How controversial is this? Do you agree or disagree with him? Do you think he is just trying to sell his book or his message or that he really believes it? Will it catch on?

I have similar questions that he brings up because I wonder a lot if people adopt at the very least certain religious views from fear, which doesn't seem to me like a very good thing to base belief off of. That threat of going to hell for not believing in the Bible (especially some religious group's or person's personal view on messages of the Bible) is actually one of the biggest reasons that I am no longer Christian.
Click to expand...

I've never understood how anyone can go to hell since our actions are pretty much determined by our genetics and experience. An "evil" person is usually just a psychopath and psychopathy is a psychological disorder so why would they go to hell? Hell just doesn't make much sense considering the contingency of will on factors outside of our control. Letting people go to hell is kind of like saying "yeah, I know I created you with this lack of empathy or put you in this life where your experiences determine your actions", but screw you."
 
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theplaydrive said:
I've never understood how anyone can go to hell since our actions are pretty much determined by our genetics and experience. An "evil" person is usually just a psychopath and psychopathy is a psychological disorder so why would they go to hell? Hell just doesn't make much sense considering the contingency of will on factors outside of our control. Letting people go to hell is kind of like saying "yeah, I know I created you with this lack of empathy or put you in this life where your experiences determine your actions", but screw you."
Click to expand...

God doesn't make bad people. People make bad people.

Hell is where we could have gone; heaven is where our spirit will go. I'm sure.
 
I'm not a religious person myself but seem to remember a description (possibly Catholic) which described Hell as being in a permanent state of seperation from God and unable to feel his presence, ever.

Don't know what thoughts this might engender among you all but I'm interested to hear.
 
Jetboogieman said:
It's always been a mystery to me how people can believe in an all powerful, merciful, loving god that would be willing to send his own creations to burn in a firey hell full of torture and anguish where you will suffer, scream and cry for all eternity...
Click to expand...
But he loves you!!! And he needs money!

RIP George Carlin
 
Baltim said:
I'm not a religious person myself but seem to remember a description (possibly Catholic) which described Hell as being in a permanent state of seperation from God and unable to feel his presence, ever.

Don't know what thoughts this might engender among you all but I'm interested to hear.
Click to expand...

As I've said elsewhere on DP, what you are referring to is my understanding of "hell'. We are always connected to God, and this world we live in is also part of God. This computer is God, etc. God is infinite so it permeates everything. It is your own ego which creates the illusion of separation, and distinctiveness. There are those who choose a self-imposed hell based on their attachment to the idea of their separateness. For this reason, there is no such thing as good or evil, but only attachment and ego, that one must reconcile in order to connect to Oneness.

Hell must also therefore be part of God, which means even if in a literal hell place with fire and brimstone, God would still permeate that existence. You could therefore connect to God there, too. So, my understanding is that hell must be a self-imposed thing, not a literal place. It's a state of being as opposed to a place.

Every other thing I've read about hell as being a physical place refers to an existence that is also temporary. It is life in a place/dimension that is filled with terrible suffering, but you don't stay there forever. Eternity means you were always there, are there now, and will always be there - in effect, time has no relevance; but that just seems absurd to me. There is an infinite dynamism to... whatever 'this'... is. I can't see a state of being lasting an eternity.
 
Of course it is temporal. Hell is the past and heaven the future. When someone goes to hell, it is that they are truly forgotten and have no more spirit with the living (although this is never 100% true). Hell refers to an almost complete loss of influence in the 'living' world - and that's being without god.

I think when the bible refers to the 'land of the dead' and 'lacking conciousness' (OT), it is not referring to the individual, but that individual's spirit (or influence) on the living. I don't think the bible talks about dying in the physical sense, that would be boring.



.02
 
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