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"...NO compassion for women with unwanted pregnancies."

Josie

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Recently, OKgrannie said this...

Nearly 100% of those who speak of "unborn children" have NO compassion for women with unwanted pregnancies.

My question is to people who agree with this statement....

What could a person "who speaks of unborn children" do that would make you rethink your belief that the above is a true statement? What actions constitute a "compassion for women with unwanted pregnancies"?
 

molten_dragon

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Recently, OKgrannie said this...

Nearly 100% of those who speak of "unborn children" have NO compassion for women with unwanted pregnancies.

My question is to people who agree with this statement....

What could a person "who speaks of unborn children" do that would make you rethink your belief that the above is a true statement? What actions constitute a "compassion for women with unwanted pregnancies"?
Perhaps a person "who speaks of unborn children" could stop calling women with unwanted pregnancies murderers and baby killers. That might be a good place to start.
 

Josie

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Perhaps a person "who speaks of unborn children" could stop calling women with unwanted pregnancies murderers and baby killers. That might be a good place to start.
What should they be called?
 

Josie

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Irresponsable?
Most definitely.

Personally, I have compassion for women who regret having abortions. I can't imagine what that must feel like. I have zero compassion for anyone who has an abortion with no remorse at all. I would think they would scoff at compassion. What do they need it for?
 

ptif219

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Unwanted but caused by their own actions. When do women take responsibility for their actions. Killing their unborn child is not responsible.
 

Travelsonic

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Of course that assumes all pregnancies are caused by negligence.
 

mac

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Recently, OKgrannie said this...

Nearly 100% of those who speak of "unborn children" have NO compassion for women with unwanted pregnancies.

My question is to people who agree with this statement....

What could a person "who speaks of unborn children" do that would make you rethink your belief that the above is a true statement? What actions constitute a "compassion for women with unwanted pregnancies"?
No action would suffice to change this perspective since doing so would eliminate a major pro-choice talking point.
 

RosieS

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What are any of you doing in some other woman's womb? The most compassionate thing I can do is to mind my own business and not cast any aspersions no matter what she and her doctor legally ((!!)) decide to do.

I think it's stupid to put someone to death for causing a prior death thru murder or manslaughter, since it doesn't make anything better (there is no such thing as 'closure') but merely ups the body count...but realistically, I don't get a say.

Realistically, it's between the pregnant woman and her doctor. Perhaps the man who impregnated her, if she wishes. Everyone else? Get yer nose outta it.

Geez Louise!!

Regards from Rosie
 

Chappy

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Women don't want compassion. They want safe procreative options. Want to be compassionate to women? Then get out of the way. The reality is that since the beginning of time, women have been making procreative decisions. The only question is whether those choices will be as safe as we can make them.

Anti-choice Americans in effect hate women and the choices they make. They punish women by making their choices unsafe. And, the only time these anti-choice Americans understand the consequences of their actions is when their daughters are bleeding to death because of a botched abortion.
 

Josie

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What are any of you doing in some other woman's womb? The most compassionate thing I can do is to mind my own business and not cast any aspersions no matter what she and her doctor legally ((!!)) decide to do.

I think it's stupid to put someone to death for causing a prior death thru murder or manslaughter, since it doesn't make anything better (there is no such thing as 'closure') but merely ups the body count...but realistically, I don't get a say.

Realistically, it's between the pregnant woman and her doctor. Perhaps the man who impregnated her, if she wishes. Everyone else? Get yer nose outta it.

Geez Louise!!

Regards from Rosie
The topic isn't abortion, in general, but thanks for your input. Do you have an answer to the question in the OP?
 

OKgrannie

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The topic isn't abortion, in general, but thanks for your input. Do you have an answer to the question in the OP?
What actions constitute a "compassion for women with unwanted pregnancies"?
The most compassionate thing I can do is to mind my own business and not cast any aspersions no matter what she and her doctor legally ((!!)) decide to do.
I believe this answers the question quite well. TY RosieS.
 

digsbe

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What about compassion for the unborn child who is about to be murdered through the most inhumane ways? There is no compassion in burning an unborn child to death with chemicals, or stabbing a child in the birth canal and sucking their brains out.
 

MaggieD

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Women don't want compassion. They want safe procreative options. Want to be compassionate to women? Then get out of the way. The reality is that since the beginning of time, women have been making procreative decisions. The only question is whether those choices will be as safe as we can make them.

Anti-choice Americans in effect hate women and the choices they make. They punish women by making their choices unsafe. And, the only time these anti-choice Americans understand the consequences of their actions is when their daughters are bleeding to death because of a botched abortion.
Now they're "Anti-Choice?" What happened to ProLife? Oh, sorry, it doesn't fit the talking points. Ah, finally, an emotional appeal from a Pro-Choicer. ;-)
 

OKgrannie

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What about compassion for the unborn child who is about to be murdered through the most inhumane ways? There is no compassion in burning an unborn child to death with chemicals, or stabbing a child in the birth canal and sucking their brains out.
Sigh....saline abortions have not been done for YEARS. PBA is also now illegal. Even though it was the most compassionate method of abortion when the "unborn child" was not going to survive anyway. And sometimes it was the safest for the women when the "unborn child" was not going to survive anyway. Why does an entity that knows nothing, feels nothing, desires nothing, and on and on and on, NEED compassion anyway? What purpose does that serve?
 

MaggieD

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Sigh....saline abortions have not been done for YEARS. PBA is also now illegal. Even though it was the most compassionate method of abortion when the "unborn child" was not going to survive anyway. And sometimes it was the safest for the women when the "unborn child" was not going to survive anyway. Why does an entity that knows nothing, feels nothing, desires nothing, and on and on and on, NEED compassion anyway? What purpose does that serve?
I would point you to brain dead patients and ask why we treat them with dignity. And, sometimes, nourish them? Hydrate them? Even breath for them. Also a waste of time? To me, it's a matter of a society being humane.
 

Aunt Spiker

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Recently, OKgrannie said this...

Nearly 100% of those who speak of "unborn children" have NO compassion for women with unwanted pregnancies.

My question is to people who agree with this statement....

What could a person "who speaks of unborn children" do that would make you rethink your belief that the above is a true statement? What actions constitute a "compassion for women with unwanted pregnancies"?
Everything on this subject is a case-by-case basis.
What is true for one isn't true for another.

The internet and debate forums make for a horrible disrupter of personal-shoulder rubbing and body language reading as well as fluid conversation which is important when figuring out the overall attitude that one has on the issue.

It often leaves everyone coming across as harsh - because everyone's said their opinions countless time and honestly just don't want to write the same book in every post. Though we do anyway.
 

OKgrannie

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I would point you to brain dead patients and ask why we treat them with dignity. And, sometimes, nourish them? Hydrate them? Even breath for them. Also a waste of time? To me, it's a matter of a society being humane.
That treatment for brain dead patients is more for the benefit of their families. But yes it is a waste of time to breathe, hydrate, and nourish a brain dead person. It is, however, done voluntarily by society and doing so imposes no sacrifice on any one individual. Those pressing for compassion for a zef do so at NO cost to themselves, and generally with little knowledge or understanding of the cost they are imposing upon a woman, IOW they have no compassion for the woman.
 

MaggieD

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That treatment for brain dead patients is more for the benefit of their families. But yes it is a waste of time to breathe, hydrate, and nourish a brain dead person. It is, however, done voluntarily by society and doing so imposes no sacrifice on any one individual. Those pressing for compassion for a zef do so at NO cost to themselves, and generally with little knowledge or understanding of the cost they are imposing upon a woman, IOW they have no compassion for the woman.
Please post an acceptable source/definition for "zef." I think you're trying to refer to a little baby, but I'm not sure. ;-)
 

OKgrannie

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Please post an acceptable source/definition for "zef." I think you're trying to refer to a little baby, but I'm not sure. ;-)
No, it's not a little baby. It's a Zygote /embryo/fetus.
 

samsmart

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Recently, OKgrannie said this...

Nearly 100% of those who speak of "unborn children" have NO compassion for women with unwanted pregnancies.

My question is to people who agree with this statement....

What could a person "who speaks of unborn children" do that would make you rethink your belief that the above is a true statement? What actions constitute a "compassion for women with unwanted pregnancies"?
Mellie, I'm going to respond to your original post. I want you to know that I do so without trying to be insulting to you or use ad hominem attacks against you. I say this because I know how charged this topic can be and I want to answer your question honestly according to my observations.

No, I don't think that 100% of those who speak of "unborn children" have NO compassion for women with unwanted pregnancies. I think many who are pro-life have compassion for women with unwanted pregnancies, so that statement is categorically false.

However, I think that for many who are pro-life, especially conservatives, their priorities are misplaced when it comes to the issue of abortion. This is because abortion isn't an independent issue. Rather, I see abortion as a sub-issue of Reproductive Rights.

I think men and women both have Natural Rights over control of their body with regards to reproduction. And I don't think the state, one way or the other, should have the ability to interfere with a man's or woman's reproductive rights, except to help a man or a woman exercise more control and choice over their reproductive rights.

When it comes to the exercise of reproductive rights, there are two groups that usually suffer the most: 1) the poor, and 2) teenagers.

The poor suffer because they may not be able to pay for proper birth control methods. Medicaid does, in some cases, cover birth control, but that's only if the woman meets the criteria for it. If a woman doesn't, then she still may not be able to afford birth control in order to prevent pregnancies.

Teenagers suffer because there's a HUGE stigma against teen pregnancy (and teen sex in general) despite the biological fact that is during the teenage years that humans not only start to because sexually active, but also that it is an age when they are able to reproduce, and for some people the most virile time for them to do so.

Now, pro-lifers tend to be conservatives, and conservatives tend to not support the reproductive rights of the poor and teenagers, and it is those groups whose reproductive rights require the most support.

Conservatives tend not to support the reproductive rights of the poor by trying to limit and/or prohibit government health insurance that provides birth control to the poor. For many conservatives, this is goes against their fiscal beliefs that government health insurance in general is bad thing. However, government insurance may be the only way that the poor can get coverage for themselves. Religious conservatives, especially Catholics, are against birth control in general because of their religious beliefs.

Conservatives tend not to support the reproductive rights of teenagers because, well, they are teenagers and the United States tends to have pretty Puritan opinions when it comes to sex and sexuality. Social conservatives tend to believe that sex education may promote sexual activity among teenagers, and so may resist sex education and birth control education among teenagers. There's also the awkwardness of teenage girls approaching their parents about getting birth control, and leaves the possibility that 1) the teenage girl won't approach them because they're uncomfortable talking about sex or birth control with their parents or 2) the parents will refuse to put their teenage girl on birth control because they think it may promote her promiscuity. Because teenagers are group in with the poor since they tend not to have high paying jobs, they can't afford to pay for birth control themselves. And then there are the religious conservatives who not only believe that birth control is wrong, they believe that teen sex outside of wedlock is wrong as well, and so try to prohibit them exercising their reproductive rights.

So one of the issues that I, personally, have with pro-lifers, especially conservative ones, is that in addition to being against abortion many are also against reproductive rights and the promotion and exercising of those rights.

I hope that this shows how conservatives, in general (but not specifically you - I don't know what your personal stances on these issues are) tend not to support women with unwanted pregnancies. It's because conservatives, in general, don't seem to support the prevention of unwanted pregnancies, especially with regards to the groups mostly to get unwanted pregnancies, the poor and teenagers, and are also the groups most likely to be adversely affected by unwanted pregnancies. The poor simply cannot afford to give birth and raise a child, and that goes the same for teenagers but they also have the added burden of not being fully educated, experienced, or emotionally developed to give birth and raise a child. Despite this, conservatives tend to not want to take the steps to promote prevention of unwanted pregnancies, especially among these groups.

There are also other reasons, for example conservatives not wanting to pay taxes that would pay for the public education and the government health insurance and the food stamp programs for all the children who would have to rely on those programs born among the poor and teenagers; however my major criticism against pro-life conservatives are those who have an unwillingness to promote birth control programs that would prevent unwanted pregnancies in the first place.
 
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No, it's not a little baby. It's a Zygote /embryo/fetus.
It's a "little baby" like a corpse is a "really still and cold living person". :roll:
 
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