"...NO compassion for women with unwanted pregnancies."

[mac]

Women don't want compassion. They want safe procreative options. Want to be compassionate to women? Then get out of the way. The reality is that since the beginning of time, women have been making procreative decisions. The only question is whether those choices will be as safe as we can make them.

Anti-choice Americans in effect hate women and the choices they make. They punish women by making their choices unsafe. And, the only time these anti-choice Americans understand the consequences of their actions is when their daughters are bleeding to death because of a botched abortion.

Has anyone said anything about emotional appeals yet?

 

[digsbe]

Women don't want compassion. They want safe procreative options. Want to be compassionate to women? Then get out of the way. The reality is that since the beginning of time, women have been making procreative decisions. The only question is whether those choices will be as safe as we can make them.

Anti-choice Americans in effect hate women and the choices they make. They punish women by making their choices unsafe. And, the only time these anti-choice Americans understand the consequences of their actions is when their daughters are bleeding to death because of a botched abortion.

Wrong. We see it from the lens of a woman killing her child. We are more pro-choice, in that we believe the unborn child has the right to live and make choices for itself. I absolutely believe that any woman who would harm her unborn child should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. It isn't her body that dies, it's not her heart that stops beating. Yes it's her womb, but it isn't her life that ends when an abortion isn't preformed. We don't hate women, we hate murder. We don't believe anyone should legally have the freedom of "choice" to end another's life and recognize such action as murder. I think it's sick that a woman would put herself in danger to have a dangerous abortion procedure in order to kill another life.

 

[Guy Incognito]

I absolutely believe that any woman who would harm her unborn child should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. It isn't her body that dies, it's not her heart that stops beating.

Your mistake is that there is no such thing as an "unborn child." A child by definition has been born. An "unborn child" is a foetus. You might believe a foetus is the same as a child but the law doesn't recognize a foetus as a person. You're entitled to this belief, which I assume is religiously motivated, but you are not entitled to foist your beliefs on the rest of society.

 

[digsbe]

Your mistake is that there is no such thing as an "unborn child." A child by definition has been born. An "unborn child" is a foetus. You might believe a foetus is the same as a child but the law doesn't recognize a foetus as a person. You're entitled to this belief, which I assume is religiously motivated, but you are not entitled to foist your beliefs on the rest of society.

Yes there is, and the law recognizes it through the Unborn Victims of Violence act. They are referred to as children in utero. A fetus is an unborn child. A fetus is a human being in the earliest developmental stages of life within a woman's womb. The law protects the fetus and in many states it is double homicide to kill a pregnant woman. However, the law wrongfully values the choice of a mother over her pregnancy over the life of a child in utero. Why can't I have my beliefs represented in law? I believe no woman should have the right to force her belief that she can kill her child in utero and terminate it's life. I don't believe anyone should have the right to force their beliefs through action by having abortions. It is the largest human rights violation of are time.

 

[Vader]

Unwanted but caused by their own actions. When do women take responsibility for their actions. Killing their unborn child is not responsible.

Stop with the anti-abortion rhetoric please. I do not care for it either; however, the government has ZERO business governing such issues and you have ZERO business villifying somebody for making a choice you do not like or agree with.

 

[Hoplite]

Personally, I have compassion for women who regret having abortions. I can't imagine what that must feel like. I have zero compassion for anyone who has an abortion with no remorse at all. I would think they would scoff at compassion. What do they need it for?

That is bogus on three levels.

First, you are using your own moral standard to judge other people by, expecting them to follow YOUR moral standards as if your standards were their own.

Second, you are expecting them to agree with you ideologically and casting them as bad people if they do not.

Third, remorse is a natural reaction to almost any hard decision that a person makes, even if that decision was logically sound. You are expecting people to abandon reason in favor of emotion, a common flaw in the pro-life crowd.

 

[Vader]

Yes there is, and the law recognizes it through the Unborn Victims of Violence act. They are referred to as children in utero. A fetus is an unborn child. A fetus is a human being in the earliest developmental stages of life within a woman's womb. The law protects the fetus and in many states it is double homicide to kill a pregnant woman. However, the law wrongfully values the choice of a mother over her pregnancy over the life of a child in utero. Why can't I have my beliefs represented in law? I believe no woman should have the right to force her belief that she can kill her child in utero and terminate it's life. I don't believe anyone should have the right to force their beliefs through action by having abortions. It is the largest human rights violation of are time.

WRONG. It's legal, and until it's 13 weeks old IT IS NOT A HUMAN BEING. I know you have a hard time with this concept but you should accept the reality of the situation.

 

[digsbe]

WRONG. It's legal, and until it's 13 weeks old IT IS NOT A HUMAN BEING. I know you have a hard time with this concept but you should accept the reality of the situation.

So. human sperm and egg fuse to make a non human organism that spontaneously becomes human after 13 weeks of development? Illogical. It's an individual human once sperm and egg meet. And before then it's 2 human gametes.

 

[Guy Incognito]

The law protects the fetus and in many states it is double homicide to kill a pregnant woman. However, the law wrongfully values the choice of a mother over her pregnancy over the life of a child in utero.

You can just as easily say that the Unborn Victims act wrongfully imputes personhood and Roe v. Wade rightfully protects a woman's right to choose. But right or wrong doesn't really enter into it. Law is law. Incidentally, the Unborn Victims act is bad law, and it's only a matter of time before it gets struck down.

Why can't I have my beliefs represented in law?

For one thing, your beliefs conflict with the Constitution.

It is the largest human rights violation of are time.

No it isn't, and frankly that's a very glib attitude to take about real human rights crimes.

 

[OKgrannie]

Wrong. We see it from the lens of a woman killing her child. We are more pro-choice, in that we believe the unborn child has the right to live and make choices for itself. I absolutely believe that any woman who would harm her unborn child should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. It isn't her body that dies, it's not her heart that stops beating. Yes it's her womb, but it isn't her life that ends when an abortion isn't preformed. We don't hate women, we hate murder. We don't believe anyone should legally have the freedom of "choice" to end another's life and recognize such action as murder. I think it's sick that a woman would put herself in danger to have a dangerous abortion procedure in order to kill another life.

Abortion is one of the safest medical procedures performed and considerably safer than childbirth.

Facts on Induced Abortion in the United States

SAFETY OF ABORTION
The risk of abortion complications is minimal: Fewer than 0.3% of abortion patients experience a complication that requires hospitalization.[10]

Abortions performed in the first trimester pose virtually no long-term risk of such problems as infertility, ectopic pregnancy, spontaneous abortion (miscarriage) or birth defect, and little or no risk of preterm or low-birth-weight deliveries.[11]

Exhaustive reviews by panels convened by the U.S. and British governments have concluded that there is no association between abortion and breast cancer. There is also no indication that abortion is a risk factor for other cancers.[11]

In repeated studies since the early 1980s, leading experts have concluded that abortion does not pose a hazard to women’s mental health.[12]

 

[digsbe]

You can just as easily say that the Unborn Victims act wrongfully imputes personhood and Roe v. Wade rightfully protects a woman's right to choose. But right or wrong doesn't really enter into it. Law is law. Incidentally, the Unborn Victims act is bad law, and it's only a matter of time before it gets struck down.

I think it's a good law, and I believe it's a matter of time before Roe v. Wade get's overturned.

For one thing, your beliefs conflict with the Constitution.

I believe abortion is unconstitutional, as it violates the natural rights of the unborn. The Supreme Court may be the final say, but Roe V. Wade can be overturned.

No it isn't, and frankly that's a very glib attitude to take about real human rights crimes.

So a belief is now a human rights violation? I believe abortion is the largest violation of human rights, as it robs a completely innocent life of all choices and experiences. It takes that life away at the whim of a woman.

Abortion is one of the safest medical procedures performed and considerably safer than childbirth.

Facts on Induced Abortion in the United States

SAFETY OF ABORTION
The risk of abortion complications is minimal: Fewer than 0.3% of abortion patients experience a complication that requires hospitalization.[10]

Abortions performed in the first trimester pose virtually no long-term risk of such problems as infertility, ectopic pregnancy, spontaneous abortion (miscarriage) or birth defect, and little or no risk of preterm or low-birth-weight deliveries.[11]

Exhaustive reviews by panels convened by the U.S. and British governments have concluded that there is no association between abortion and breast cancer. There is also no indication that abortion is a risk factor for other cancers.[11]

In repeated studies since the early 1980s, leading experts have concluded that abortion does not pose a hazard to women’s mental health.[12]

That doesn't matter. Murder is pretty safe too if you shoot someone unseen. Abortion is the most unsafe procedure available, as it's goal is to terminate a life. It's not safe at all for the unborn child.

 

[OKgrannie]

. Why can't I have my beliefs represented in law? .

Your beliefs ARE protected by law. It is still your choice whether to have an abortion. Certainly, no one is forced to have one. You have the freedom to live by your beliefs.

 

[digsbe]

Your beliefs ARE protected by law. It is still your choice whether to have an abortion. Certainly, no one is forced to have one. You have the freedom to live by your beliefs.

My beliefs are that no one has the choice to kill the unborn. They are only represented by the act I posted earlier and some state laws that prohibit the murder of the unborn. It's my belief that no woman has the right to an elective abortion.

 

[RosieS]

Some states have laws about killing pregnant women, but Federal law trumps state law. There is no one awaiting the Federal death penalty for killing a pregnant woman. It's not a Federal crime.
So if your state has that law - good, you have that law. If another state doesn't, good. They have the right not to.

But you really oughta mind your own business. I'm sure you can tell your female relatives all day what the should do, but in reality they don't have to abide by what you want for them, only what they want concerning themselves. And that is the best law of all.

I won't ever tell ya what to do with your body; you have no right to tell me what I must do with mine.

Regards from Rosie

 

[OKgrannie]

That doesn't matter. Murder is pretty safe too if you shoot someone unseen. Abortion is the most unsafe procedure available, as it's goal is to terminate a life. It's not safe at all for the unborn child.

That doesn't matter either. It doesn't matter to the so-called "unborn child", since the scuc doesn't have a brain for it to matter to. It doesn't matter to you since it's none of your business, it's a private matter. It doesn't matter to the public since the public doesn't know about it. In fact, it only matters to the pregnant woman, that's why it's her choice.

 

[Travelsonic]

I would allow for rape and incest since these are against the will of the woman

And what about failed birth control, defective condoms, etc?

 

[OKgrannie]

My beliefs are that no one has the choice to kill the unborn. They are only represented by the act I posted earlier and some state laws that prohibit the murder of the unborn. It's my belief that no woman has the right to an elective abortion.

Your beliefs only have authority over your own life. I know you would like to have authority over women's lives and decisions, but you don't. You probably will be quite busy in your lifetime making correct decisions for your own life without worrying about making decisions for others. If you get too involved trying to run others' lives, you will screw up your own.

 

[Guy Incognito]

I think it's a good law, and I believe it's a matter of time before Roe v. Wade get's overturned.

When I say it's "bad" law I don't mean that in the moral sense. It is bad law because it conflicts with superior law, namely Roe. You can believe it's only a matter of time before Roe v. Wade is overturned, but you are wrong, it is highly unrealistic that Roe v. Wade will ever be overturned. Even conservative Justices like Scalia acknowledge that principles of stare decisis would not allow for something so radical as overturning Roe. Roe is good law whether you like it or not. This is objective fact. The Unborn Victims act, however, would not be able to withstand Constitutional scrutiny, thus it is bad law.

 

[molten_dragon]

What should they be called?

You could start by calling them something accurate.

Or how about just not labeling them at all. You could just use her name, or a pronoun, like 'her' or 'she'.

 

[molten_dragon]

What about compassion for the unborn child who is about to be murdered through the most inhumane ways?

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Abortion is not murder. It hasn't been for years (actually, I'm not sure it ever was).

 

[mac]

Your mistake is that there is no such thing as an "unborn child." A child by definition has been born. An "unborn child" is a foetus. You might believe a foetus is the same as a child but the law doesn't recognize a foetus as a person. You're entitled to this belief, which I assume is religiously motivated, but you are not entitled to foist your beliefs on the rest of society.

No one is trying to "foist" their belief on anyone else, but everyone in America is entitled to state their opinions regardless of the source of the opinion. Your belief that a child is only a child after birth is your opinion and no more valid than any other. And, "by definition" you are incorrect in your assumption.

 

[mac]

Your beliefs only have authority over your own life. I know you would like to have authority over women's lives and decisions, but you don't. You probably will be quite busy in your lifetime making correct decisions for your own life without worrying about making decisions for others. If you get too involved trying to run others' lives, you will screw up your own.

What about the belief that we have rights? Is that only for the person alone or does it extend out to society?

 

[mac]

Some states have laws about killing pregnant women, but Federal law trumps state law. There is no one awaiting the Federal death penalty for killing a pregnant woman. It's not a Federal crime.
So if your state has that law - good, you have that law. If another state doesn't, good. They have the right not to.

But you really oughta mind your own business. I'm sure you can tell your female relatives all day what the should do, but in reality they don't have to abide by what you want for them, only what they want concerning themselves. And that is the best law of all.

I won't ever tell ya what to do with your body; you have no right to tell me what I must do with mine.

Regards from Rosie

Well, first, killing a pregnant woman is a federal crime just like killing any other woman is. Second, the unborn victims of violence act is a federal law.

 

[RosieS]

Well, first, killing a pregnant woman is a federal crime just like killing any other woman is. Second, the unborn victims of violence act is a federal law.

Killing a pregnant woman who is a Federal employee, on federal property or who is in the military is a federal crime under that law. It is not for all others. Only 34 states have a similar law, which means in 16 states killing a pregnant woman is just normal, average murder or manslaughter.

It is NOT applicable nationwide as most Federal laws are. To imply it is applicable at all times and everywhere is incorrect, because it is narrowly focused.

Regards from Rosie

 

[Barbbtx]

Now they're "Anti-Choice?" What happened to ProLife? Oh, sorry, it doesn't fit the talking points. Ah, finally, an emotional appeal from a Pro-Choicer. ;-)

That's a pro-abortioner for ya.