New study reports that at least half the time gay's can change their sexuality

[jambalaya]

What are you talking about?

Why are people trying to "cure" homosexuality in the first place?

I think homophobia, racism, and sexism should be re-classified as mental illnesses. After all, everyone is just a human being, from the same species. Why all the fake divisions? Maybe we should lock up the people who are too mentally disturbed to leave people alone.

See? I can be radical too.

I agree the idea of "curing" homosexuality is a backward idea. But I also think that there are more people than we care to admit that could change their sexual behaviour and be very comfortable with it because they are bisexual or probably more accurately are not purely homo or hetero sexual. This all or nothing argument from both sides is dishonest. And no I don't think anyone should be forced to change.

 

[CriticalThought]

I agree the idea of "curing" homosexuality is a backward idea. But I also think that there are more people than we care to admit that could change their sexual behaviour and be very comfortable with it because they are bisexual or probably more accurately are not purely homo or hetero sexual. This all or nothing argument from both sides is dishonest. And no I don't think anyone should be forced to change.

I disagree. I don't think people who argue that homosexuality is not a choice are taking the position that people can't choose their behavior. They are arguing that sexual attraction is not a choice. It is the people who argue that homosexuality is choice who are arguing that people can change not just their sexual behavior but also their sexual attractions.

 

[lpast]

I am not getting in this debate, I want to make that crystal clear......I am however asking a question, that I would like answered by gay individuals and not heterosexuals..

My very good friends daughter, who I know from the crib, im her godfather....Has been married twice ive met her boyfriends in her younger years...she has 4 children and is a grandmother at 43 yrs of age.
She had been having some slight marital turmoil but nothing monumental...to make it short...suddenly she goes to live with her female boss and then says shes living a gay lifestyle...Ok but the problem is she insists she isnt gay....she says shes never been gay and isnt now..its just easier to be with a woman ...her parents are baffled....

 

[Hicup]

I would love to see some examples of these psychologists, preferably ones who are not driven by a religious agenda. That shouldn't be hard for you to do since practically every decent psychologist agrees with your assumptions about internalized homophobia, right?

Oh wait! No, that was you just proving my point of how inanely you approach this subject. Don't you feel bad at about lying about how many people support your views and then challenging other people's honestly? Is that the kind of values you represent?

"Inane"?? Weird choice of a word, but hey?

I guess it boils down to what comes first; kinda like a chicken or the egg type thingy.. I can't even get you to admit that homosexual internalized homophobia is the fear of one's own homoerotic feelings and thoughts. This mythical internalized homophobia can be expressed in various ways both internally, and outwardly. But heck, if we can't even agree on that, then what hope do we have of getting anywhwre in the conversation, CT?


Tim-

 

[CriticalThought]

I am not getting in this debate, I want to make that crystal clear......I am however asking a question, that I would like answered by gay individuals and not heterosexuals..

My very good friends daughter, who I know from the crib, im her godfather....Has been married twice ive met her boyfriends in her younger years...she has 4 children and is a grandmother at 43 yrs of age.
She had been having some slight marital turmoil but nothing monumental...to make it short...suddenly she goes to live with her female boss and then says shes living a gay lifestyle...Ok but the problem is she insists she isnt gay....she says shes never been gay and isnt now..its just easier to be with a woman ...her parents are baffled....

Um...is there a question in there? Usually questions end in question marks.

Also have you heard of bisexuals? They are these people with both opposite sex and same sex attractions.

 

[Hicup]

I think some people are missing the term "quasi" in the original snippet posted, and if they don't know the meaning, they can always look it up.

What many people fail to understand whenever these sorts of things are discussed is that people have emotional as well as physical attachments, and it is quite possible to seek physical intimacy with a member of the opposite sex because a person has established an emotional bond with them while still preferring the sexual attraction of the same sex. For many men, satisfying their emotional needs through bonds with women outweighs their sexual needs otherwise expressed with men, and it's really not so much a matter of a cure as it is the need for a bond that overrides the need for sex.

Finally some reason..

Actually it was the term "quasi" in the subject field that caught my attention.


Tim-

 

[Hicup]

How about this?

They find an independent university to conduct the study and see if they can replicate the results. That would add efficacy to their findings. So far this is one study conducted by two biased people against dozens of other studies that say something completely different.

of course those other studies were not conducted by anyone that might have a dog in the race??

Did you read the answer to criticisms page? Specifically the part about how the researchers handled the KNOWN problem they saw with Exodus as the funding agency? Did you? Nope, you clearly didn't or you simply don't believe them? I don't know, maybe you should at least read the answer they provide to what they forsaw as legitimate criticism. Notice that they said that the criticism was, and is legitimate.. Unlike pro gay studies that don't even bother to defend their work because they KNOW they have a complicit media that will carry the pale for them.


Tim-

 

[Hicup]

I don't see how it can just be switched off on a chemical and psychological level - but just not being in a gay or straight relationship - sure.

But there's nothing anyone can do which will make me want to physically be with a female - in fact - if I was ever approached by someone to do exactly that I'd probably be more sure of my straightness right then at that moment than at any other time in my life.

This is why I asked the question in the OP. I wonder if it works in reverse? To take this study more seriously, one must accept that for it to be true, it must work in reverse? I have my doubts about that claim.


Tim-

 

[lpast]

Um...is there a question in there? Usually questions end in question marks.

Also have you heard of bisexuals? They are these people with both opposite sex and same sex attractions.

Sorry my mistake...the question is it possible...can she be living and gay life style and honestly say shes not gay....
Her parents are all upset over this...her 3 of her kids are really distraught the two girls wont talk to her dont want to see her
this has caused alot of grief for everyone including her...and her husband of 14 yrs who says there was never an inkling there
was a problem other than disputes over child rearing he said their sex life was great...
Of course ive heard of bisexuals...im not naive Critical...I am very cautious how I word any conversations on this subject so it doesnt escalate into anything not intended..
She tells her husband she wants nothing to do with him or men and shes sorry...and then insists shes not gay...to him and her parents and her kids...everyone is very confused and pissed off..

 

[Hicup]

Sorry my mistake...the question is it possible...can she be living and gay life style and honestly say shes not gay....
Her parents are all upset over this...her 3 of her kids are really distraught the two girls wont talk to her dont want to see her
this has caused alot of grief for everyone including her...and her husband of 14 yrs who says there was never an inkling there
was a problem other than disputes over child rearing he said their sex life was great...
Of course ive heard of bisexuals...im not naive Critical...I am very cautious how I word any conversations on this subject so it doesnt escalate into anything not intended..
She tells her husband she wants nothing to do with him or men and shes sorry...and then insists shes not gay...to him and her parents and her kids...everyone is very confused and pissed off..

Some here will try and convince you that she is not gay, just behaving gay, and you can decide if that holds any weight logically..


Tim-

 

[CriticalThought]

"Inane"?? Weird choice of a word, but hey?

I guess it boils down to what comes first; kinda like a chicken or the egg type thingy.. I can't even get you to admit that homosexual internalized homophobia is the fear of one's own homoerotic feelings and thoughts.

Because it isn't. That is your own personal opinion which is not shared by most reputable psychologists. You are lying when you say that psychologists support that opinion, but if you can prove me wrong, I would love to see you do so.

 

[CriticalThought]

Sorry my mistake...the question is it possible...can she be living and gay life style and honestly say shes not gay....
Her parents are all upset over this...her 3 of her kids are really distraught the two girls wont talk to her dont want to see her
this has caused alot of grief for everyone including her...and her husband of 14 yrs who says there was never an inkling there
was a problem other than disputes over child rearing he said their sex life was great...
Of course ive heard of bisexuals...im not naive Critical...I am very cautious how I word any conversations on this subject so it doesnt escalate into anything not intended..
She tells her husband she wants nothing to do with him or men and shes sorry...and then insists shes not gay...to him and her parents and her kids...everyone is very confused and pissed off..

I would say she isn't gay, she just doesn't like men and sleeps with women. You will have to ask her if she is attracted to women or not and whether or not she has always been attracted to women or if it is a recent development as a result of her new found hatred of men. I would say she is probably bisexual and just focused on her opposite sex attraction until now.

 

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

If the lady is attracted to both men and women, she is bisexual, not gay (attracted only to women). So yes, she can be living the gay lifestyle and not be gay.

 

[liblady]

If you say these studies won't work...... What will work?

why does anything have to work? can't people just be who they are?

 

[Gardener]

why does anything have to work?

Well, at least SOME things have to work if you are doing it properly.

 

[whysoserious]

Would you suggest that all catholic priests are born non sexual? Of course not. yet, regardless of their orientation they (MOST) choose to live a lifestyle, happily and by choice, in opposition to their sexuality, hetero, homo, or otherwise.

Other than the obvious answers (the person driven to prove homosexuality IS a choice, and that persons counterpart, the one driven to insist it is NOT), I just dont know why people have a hard time accepting the basic realities-sexuality, drives, desires, passions:not a choice. Decision to act:definitely a choice. Or for that matter why it even matters to anyone other than the concerned individual.

I think you missed the point? They work in a religious institution and they are studying homosexuals... I do not see how you are missing that obvious bias. Look, just like with global warming, all of the data points to the opposite of what these people are saying. There are thousands of researchers and studies that differ from what this study found. The study has not even been duplicated, so it is kind of hard to call it reliable in any fashion (just like science does not accept CERN's data of the faster than light particle on one finding), these people are going to have to run this study again and be subjected to peer review.

That is how science works. I know when something supports your world view, it is easy to jump on the bandwagon, but unfortunately, the scientific method does not care about your views.

 

[VanceMack]

I think you missed the point? They work in a religious institution and they are studying homosexuals... I do not see how you are missing that obvious bias. Look, just like with global warming, all of the data points to the opposite of what these people are saying. There are thousands of researchers and studies that differ from what this study found. The study has not even been duplicated, so it is kind of hard to call it reliable in any fashion (just like science does not accept CERN's data of the faster than light particle on one finding), these people are going to have to run this study again and be subjected to peer review.

That is how science works. I know when something supports your world view, it is easy to jump on the bandwagon, but unfortunately, the scientific method does not care about your views.

I dont miss the bias, nor do I miss the absolute reality that MOST men who would like help in not acting on their homosexuality are religiously driven. You may note that I have never once suggested an individuals sexuality is pure choice but is in fact natural. I think the only ones here that are blind are the ones that are certain homosexuality is a choice and people can just choose to not feel those attractions, or their counterparts...those that are gay and invested in by damn insisting that everyone embrace their homosesuality like they have. The fact is MANY people DONT embrace their sexuality (of every different variation), and many dont WANT to. Its not a question of 'should' because what they 'should' do is not up to you, me, or anyone else...it is up to the individual. Attempting to dissuade a religious homosexual (or anyone else so motivated) that chooses to not act on those drives is as foolish and wrong as attempting to dissuade a homosexual from embracing their sexuality. Im not arguing the chicken or the egg...Im addressing the reality. The reason studies like these happen or global groups like Exodus International exist is because some people dont want to act on their homosexuality, just as other support groups work with individuals to control their own variant sexual drives.

It has been mentioned by others that some are not gay but choose to live as partners with people of the same sex. I happen to live two houses down from such a couple and my sister in law is one of those as well. What we know is that people want...in some cases desperately need...to feel a sense of love and belonging. Choice absolutely enters into it. In many cases what they would prefer...a powerful and positive relationship with a partner of the opposite sex is something they have simply given up on. But many do NOT give up on feeling loved...giving love...and they CHOOSE...happily even...to embrace a same sex relationship. Many have said...un uh...not me...no way. Fine...thats OK too.

 

[Hicup]

Because it isn't. That is your own personal opinion which is not shared by most reputable psychologists. You are lying when you say that psychologists support that opinion, but if you can prove me wrong, I would love to see you do so.

To prove you wrong, and for you to prove me wrong would require one to accept that psychology is based on the same scientific rigor normally associated with the hard sciences. I don't ascribe to that notion, and if anything, psychology is science-light. That said, what you require for credibility is anyone that is pro-gay, and refuse to even look at the opinions (Because this is what psychology really is when boiled down) of those in opposition to your world view. I know you don't agree with that assessment, but it happens to define you fairly accurately.


Tim-

 

[Hicup]

I think you missed the point? They work in a religious institution and they are studying homosexuals... I do not see how you are missing that obvious bias. Look, just like with global warming, all of the data points to the opposite of what these people are saying. There are thousands of researchers and studies that differ from what this study found. The study has not even been duplicated, so it is kind of hard to call it reliable in any fashion (just like science does not accept CERN's data of the faster than light particle on one finding), these people are going to have to run this study again and be subjected to peer review.

That is how science works. I know when something supports your world view, it is easy to jump on the bandwagon, but unfortunately, the scientific method does not care about your views.

Just a quick note.. The APA is a largely a political organization, and there is no incentive for would-be psychologists to risk ruining their careers by pursuing studies of this nature. One has to recognize this truism if you expect us to accept this argument.


Tim-

 

[Demon of Light]

Would you suggest that all catholic priests are born non sexual? Of course not. yet, regardless of their orientation they (MOST) choose to live a lifestyle, happily and by choice, in opposition to their sexuality, hetero, homo, or otherwise.

Other than the obvious answers (the person driven to prove homosexuality IS a choice, and that persons counterpart, the one driven to insist it is NOT), I just dont know why people have a hard time accepting the basic realities-sexuality, drives, desires, passions:not a choice. Decision to act:definitely a choice. Or for that matter why it even matters to anyone other than the concerned individual.

I think it is certainly possible to "choose" one's attractions, but it it not simple or easy. At the same time, it is probably not possible to completely eliminate it. Once the mind has conceived of something it is very difficult, if not impossible, to completely get rid of it.

I think some people are missing the term "quasi" in the original snippet posted, and if they don't know the meaning, they can always look it up.

What many people fail to understand whenever these sorts of things are discussed is that people have emotional as well as physical attachments, and it is quite possible to seek physical intimacy with a member of the opposite sex because a person has established an emotional bond with them while still preferring the sexual attraction of the same sex. For many men, satisfying their emotional needs through bonds with women outweighs their sexual needs otherwise expressed with men, and it's really not so much a matter of a cure as it is the need for a bond that overrides the need for sex.

I agree with this argument in many respects. However, I think with an emotional bond there comes some physical and sexual attachment. This issue you are mentioning is another area where I find homosexuality to be comparable to a fetish. People who have a certain fetish have a strong physical attachment to their uncommon source of sexual pleasure and feel ashamed, unwilling, or unable to share that with their partner. So, they find other people to satisfy those sexual desires. At the same time a person may set aside those desires and not indulge them out of affection for their partner.

Obviously, it is not generally plausible for a man to share a sexual attraction towards men with his wife. As a result a person is forced to choose between love and desire, some choose love and others desire.

 

[Omgitsme]

Just a quick note.. The APA is a largely a political organization, and there is no incentive for would-be psychologists to risk ruining their careers by pursuing studies of this nature. One has to recognize this truism if you expect us to accept this argument.


Tim-

I fail to see how you came up with that conclusion when the APA allows members of NARTH in their organization and put Kenneth Zucker on the DSM 5 committee when he has controversial views and treatments on transgendered children.

 

[lpast]

I would say she isn't gay, she just doesn't like men and sleeps with women. You will have to ask her if she is attracted to women or not and whether or not she has always been attracted to women or if it is a recent development as a result of her new found hatred of men. I would say she is probably bisexual and just focused on her opposite sex attraction until now.

I talk to her but I dont ask her anything about it...not my place...I let their parents talk about it...they want too....I would think your right..shes bisexual..I cant compute not being gay and sleeping with the same sex...ah well eventually they have to work it out...im only in it because they keep; talking to me about it.

 

[whysoserious]

Just a quick note.. The APA is a largely a political organization, and there is no incentive for would-be psychologists to risk ruining their careers by pursuing studies of this nature. One has to recognize this truism if you expect us to accept this argument.


Tim-

I do not accept that truism. My guess is there are politics involved, as politics gets involved in just about any profession, but only in so much as to be offended by shoddy work. You can read in the article I quoted that no one attacked these men, they simply said this is only one test result and for it to be taken seriously it would need to be duplicated time and time again. That's the scientific method.

 

[VanceMack]

I talk to her but I dont ask her anything about it...not my place...I let their parents talk about it...they want too....I would think your right..shes bisexual..I cant compute not being gay and sleeping with the same sex...ah well eventually they have to work it out...im only in it because they keep; talking to me about it.

For some reason I can totally see being a lesbian. I have strong lesbian tendencies!

 

[liblady]

I am not getting in this debate, I want to make that crystal clear......I am however asking a question, that I would like answered by gay individuals and not heterosexuals..

My very good friends daughter, who I know from the crib, im her godfather....Has been married twice ive met her boyfriends in her younger years...she has 4 children and is a grandmother at 43 yrs of age.
She had been having some slight marital turmoil but nothing monumental...to make it short...suddenly she goes to live with her female boss and then says shes living a gay lifestyle...Ok but the problem is she insists she isnt gay....she says shes never been gay and isnt now..its just easier to be with a woman ...her parents are baffled....

she's dishonest, clearly.