Nationalism, good or bad ?? (1 Viewer)

[jamesrage]

There's a big variance between loyalty, and blind and absolute loyalty.
You have yet to make the distinction that nationalism is not brain washing.

Kandahar obviously thinks one has to be brainwashed to be loyal to and to love his country.

 

[jamesrage]

English must not be your first language...

Let's try this again, real slow. Why should I care any more about the welfare of some random person in Alaska than I do about the welfare of some random person in France or Argentina or Ghana?

You leftist make it too easy for someone to prove that alot of you all are anti-american.

You simply do not understand context. At all.

You obviously do not give two shits about the definition of words.

If George Washington was anything like the other powerful people of his day, he didn't have any problem with abortion.

I think he would have a problem.The founding forefathers would have made abortion a right if they didn't have problem with it.

I

George Washington certainly supported equality...for white property-owning men. The definition of equality has simply expanded since then, and it's still what I would call an American value.

Equality is is not changing the rules to suit someone else.Equality is where the rules apply to everyone.

George Washington certainly had no problem with flag-burning, as he favored an absolute right to freedom of speech.

Speech is words either written or spoken,not lighting something on fire.I serously doubt he would burn the flag that betsy Ross designed.

Completely irrelevant to anything I just wrote.

I will be digging back to this thread when ever I want to prove that liberals hate America, are disloyal and or mock patritism.

You didn't answer the question. What exactly does that mean, if it isn't a meaningless cliche?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/loyalty

loyalty

n 1: the quality of being loyal [ant: disloyalty] 2: feelings of allegiance 3: the act of binding yourself (intellectually or emotionally) to a course of action; "his long commitment to public service"; "they felt no loyalty to a losing team" [syn: commitment, allegiance, dedication]

That is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've heard since...umm...the last time you topped yourself.

It is not dumb to ask someone to take a stand.

Do you love or hate Bhutan? How about Togo? French Polynesia? C'mon now, no fence-sitting.

Why are you asking me if I am loyal to another country.The last time I checked I am a citizen of the United States of America.What about you?

Loyalty to countries IN GENERAL is stupid, whether it's the United States or North Korea.

It is nice when you liberals are so open about your anti-american sentiment.

Theodore Hall and Benedict Arnol felt the same way you do.I hope you do not work in any government offices,with friends like you who needs enemies.

 

[jfuh]

North Korea is a commuinist dictatorship, Kim Jong-il rules his country with a iron first.Up until a few years The North Koreans used to blast propaganda across the DMZ with huge speakers.


These people are brainwashed
http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stories/northkorea/thestory.html
The soldier points out North Korean "jammers," which block foreign radio and television broadcasts. "So they have no idea of what actually goes on in the outside world," says the soldier. "They think that a BMW is manufactured by North Korea."

Before leaving for North Korea, Anderson meets in Seoul with a group of North Korean refugees who had fled from famine and political repression. "The moment a child utters a word they start him on ideological training," one refugee says. "So they can't think for themselves."

snip..

Anderson's obligatory first stop is an enormous statue of the "Great Leader," where he is told to place flowers and bow.

snip..

In a giant indoor stadium, Anderson views 100,000 performers doing elaborate card stunts and choreographed marching routines in praise of the Great Leader and blaming the United States for preventing the reunification of Korea.

Seems completely consistent with what I've stated already.
Brainwashing with Nationalist propaganda.
The Facist were exactly as such. The Hitler's Germany "For the fatherland". Stalin's Soviet Russia "For the motherland" - all nationalism.

Nationalism brainwashes and is the pinnacle of anti-freedom, the very definition of what is anti-american.
Flag burning may seem in bad taste, but it is an expression held by some, suppression of which would be anti-free speech - which is why the supreme court agreed.
In North Korea, calling the leader something other then great would get a bullet in your head and be called un-patriotic, disloyal to the nation. Here in the US we call disagreements just so, nothing unpatriotic about expression. In fact it is the expression of personal opinion whether it be mainstream or not, that strengthens what this nation stands for - freedom. To put limits on such expression with calls of "un patriotism" "dis-loyalty" "un-nationalist" is then putting limits on freedom. Against exactly what those who founded this nation based it on.
So if someone want to proclaim thier patriotism through singing the national anthem in Spanish, great, if someone chooses not to stand during the national anthem, fine. Because that's what this nation is about, freedom.

 

[Kandahar]

You leftist make it too easy for someone to prove that alot of you all are anti-american.

How about you answer the questions as they are asked, instead of citing this same stupid talking point and ignoring what I wrote.

I think he would have a problem.The founding forefathers would have made abortion a right if they didn't have problem with it.

Not true. They included the 9th amendment for a reason.

And some of the Founding Fathers (including George Washington) didn't even think we needed a Bill of Rights, because it never occurred to them that the government would rape the Elastic Clause so badly that they'd try to pass laws against flag-burning.

Equality is is not changing the rules to suit someone else.Equality is where the rules apply to everyone.

Right. And the same marriage laws don't apply to everyone. Next?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/loyalty

loyalty

n 1: the quality of being loyal [ant: disloyalty] 2: feelings of allegiance 3: the act of binding yourself (intellectually or emotionally) to a course of action; "his long commitment to public service"; "they felt no loyalty to a losing team" [syn: commitment, allegiance, dedication]

Enough with the dictionary definitions. Why don't you just say, in your own words, what you mean when you say you "love your country"? What does it mean to be a patriot that distinguishes them from non-patriots?

It is not dumb to ask someone to take a stand.

Then answer my question: Do you love or hate Bhutan? It's not dumb to ask you to take a stand.

Why are you asking me if I am loyal to another country.The last time I checked I am a citizen of the United States of America.What about you?

Ah, I see. So by an accident of birth, I'm expected to wave the American flag and support the American government no matter what it does, but you don't give a **** whether I do the same about Bhutan. If I was a citizen of Bhutan instead, would you still expect me to wave the American flag and support the American government no matter what it does? If not, you're a racist.

Theodore Hall and Benedict Arnol felt the same way you do.I hope you do not work in any government offices,with friends like you who needs enemies.

And the irony is that even though you wear your patriotism on your sleeve, I'm much more committed to American ideals of liberty and freedom than you'll ever be.

Mark Twain said it best: To love your country is to support your government...when they deserve it.

 

[dragonslayer]

Nationalism is good unless you live in world where your income comes from sources outside of the United States. The British take care of the British, Israel takes care of the Israelis, the French take care of the French, the Chinese take care of the Chinese. That is nationalism. Believe in ones own country and support it instead of other countries.

The current US government does not believe in Nationalism. They believe in Globalism, and Corporatism. They see the people and resources in one region as people waiting to be exploited by another people,----The Corporations. Under Globalism, the Corporations more important than America, Russia, Germany, Britain, Mexico, China, Japan, etc. etc. What is important is profits and power for already very very rich. Because of Globalism, the average daily wage for America is steadily on the decline while, American are losing benefits, and American jobs is going overseas.

Nationalism

Pronunciation: (nash'u-nl-iz"um, nash'nu-liz"-), [key]
—n.
1. national spirit or aspirations.
2. devotion and loyalty to one's own nation; patriotism.
3. excessive patriotism; chauvinism.
4. the desire for national advancement or independence.
5. the policy or doctrine of asserting the interests of one's own nation, viewed as separate from the interests of other nations or the common interests of all nations.
6. an idiom or trait peculiar to a nation.
7. a movement, as in the arts, based upon the folk idioms, history, aspirations, etc., of a nation.
Random House Unabridged Dictionary, Copyright © 1997, by Random House, Inc., on Infoplease.

glob•al•ism

Pronunciation: (glō'bu-liz"um), [key]
—n.
the attitude or policy of placing the interests of the entire world above those of individual nations. Under the WTO, it means interests of very rich individuals over individual nations. Hence Bush's War in Iraq.
Random House Unabridged Dictionary, Copyright © 1997, by Random House, Inc., on Infoplease.

 

[akyron]

The kind of Nationalism is akin to how a two year old feels about his mom.

Sooo are you thinking a nationwide revolt of two year olds would turn out great? There is a reason for the parental bond.

It is more likely the children would suffer "heightened emotional disorders, fear, tension, and behavioral disorders.

....Sounds like a DNC gathering right there....I take it back. Maybe the two year old analogy works after all... nevermind.

 

[dragonslayer]

Sooo are you thinking a nationwide revolt of two year olds would turn out great? There is a reason for the parental bond.

It is more likely the children would suffer "heightened emotional disorders, fear, tension, and behavioral disorders.

....Sounds like a DNC gathering right there....I take it back. Maybe the two year old analogy works after all... nevermind.

what other type of nationalism is there? Are you a patriot, do yu love your country above other countries. Time to get rid of the Neo cons and start taking care of America again.

Yess yess, Nationalists are lovers of the 2 year old model, if that is all that standing between us and end of American Democracy. The neo cons are radical destroyers, and I am liberal Conservative that want to preserve America and its traditions. Bush and his advisor are not conservatiive, they only banter the old name around to fool people like you.

I am curious, Are you getting paid by some Neo Con group to distort the the truth in here?

 

[::Major_Baker::]

Jamesrage and Kandahr.

Your back-and-forth is quite interesting.

I am not sure I agree completely with what Kandahar is saying, as I think if I had to append my 'alligience' to one country or the other, I would choose USA over say, Mali, because I am american. This is not to say however, that the USA is right in every situation.

But Kandahar also makes a point that alligience to one's country should and can be questioned, especially if those leading the country are making blatant errors in policy, as we see recently. Questioning, and even disagreeingwith your country's policies, does not make you anti-american, or even unpatriotic.

Through reading these tirades though, it is quite apparent that Kandahar is more educated than James, and is able to seperate concepts from 'feel good patriotism.', and able to think objectively about what loyalty to one's country really means.

 

[vergiss]

Patriotism = good
Nationalism = stupid

 

[jamesrage]

Seems completely consistent with what I've stated already.
Brainwashing with Nationalist propaganda.
The Facist were exactly as such. The Hitler's Germany "For the fatherland". Stalin's Soviet Russia "For the motherland" - all nationalism..

To certian degree you are right.Nationalism sometimes gets abused

Nationalism brainwashes and is the pinnacle of anti-freedom, the very definition of what is anti-american.

Nationalism is loyalty and love for your country.It is not about beleaving every single piece of information the government puts out.

Flag burning may seem in bad taste, but it is an expression held by some, suppression of which would be anti-free speech - which is why the supreme court agreed.

Supreme court rullings change,supreme court rulings are based on the ideology of the judges which is why alot of times there is no %100 agreement on everything and why liberals do not want Bush's nominations for judiciall benches.

To put limits on such expression with calls of "un patriotism"

There is no such thing as freedom of expression in the constitution.Speech is either vocal or written words.




If you believe limits on what you believe to be a right,what are your views on the second amendmen,do you feel the same way about the right to bear arms?
http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/7362-what-extent-you-support-1st-2nd-amendment.html

 

[jamesrage]

Patriotism = good
Nationalism = stupid

That is an absurd statement considering the two are synonymous.Thats like saying I like omlets but I hate omlets.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nationalism

n 1: love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it [syn: patriotism]

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=patriotism

n : love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it [syn: nationalism]

 

[jamesrage]

Jamesrage and Kandahr.

Your back-and-forth is quite interesting.

I am not sure I agree completely with what Kandahar is saying, as I think if I had to append my 'alligience' to one country or the other, I would choose USA over say, Mali, because I am american. This is not to say however, that the USA is right in every situation.

But Kandahar also makes a point that alligience to one's country should and can be questioned, especially if those leading the country are making blatant errors in policy, as we see recently. Questioning, and even disagreeingwith your country's policies, does not make you anti-american, or even unpatriotic.

Kandahar thinks loyalty to one's country is absurd,should I go and get his statement.His heroes more than likely are Benedict Arnold and Theodore Hall,individuals who obviously thought that loyalty to one's country is absurd..

 

[Kandahar]

Kandahar thinks loyalty to one's country is absurd,should I go and get his statement.His heroes more than likely are Benedict Arnold and Theodore Hall,individuals who obviously thought that loyalty to one's country is absurd..

You keep citing Benedict Arnold, and that is an interesting choice. Setting aside his revolutionary achievements on behalf of the colonies for a moment, let's assume for the sake of argument that his only role in history books had been as a traitor.

Now at what point would he have stopped being a patriot to England, and become a traitor to the United States? On July 4, 1776? If (assuming for the sake of argument) his behavior had been entirely consistent before and after this date, would his beliefs suddenly have gone from laudable patriotism to despicable anti-Americanism?

If YOU had been alive on July 3, 1776, would you be accusing the revolutionaries of being unpatriotic anti-English scum? Why or why not? How about on July 5, 1776?


And if you consider America's founding fathers to be patriots, do you also consider Robert E. Lee and Jefferson Davis to be patriots? How about Aaron Burr?

 

[jamesrage]

You keep citing Benedict Arnold, and that is an interesting choice. Setting aside his revolutionary achievements on behalf of the colonies for a moment, let's assume for the sake of argument that his only role in history books had been as a traitor.

Now at what point would he have stopped being a patriot to England, and become a traitor to the United States? On July 4, 1776? If (assuming for the sake of argument) his behavior had been entirely consistent before and after this date, would his beliefs suddenly have gone from laudable patriotism to despicable anti-Americanism?

If YOU had been alive on July 3, 1776, would you be accusing the revolutionaries of being unpatriotic anti-English scum? Why or why not? How about on July 5, 1776?

Oh good

And if you consider America's founding fathers to be patriots, do you also consider Robert E. Lee and Jefferson Davis to be patriots?

No I do not consider them to be patriots considering the fact they sided with the confederate.

How about Aaron Burr?

Aaron Burr was aquited.

 

[Kandahar]

Oh good

Again, please answer the questions instead of responding with meaningless crap like this. Would you have condemned George Washington on July 3, 1776 for his despicable unpatriotic actions?

No I do not consider them to be patriots considering the fact they sided with the confederate.

What distinguishes Robert E. Lee and Jefferson Davis from, say, George Washington and John Adams...besides the fact that the latter WON their war of independence?

Aaron Burr was aquited.

Do you deny that he orchestrated a conspiracy to claim the Western United States as his own country? If he had been successful, would you applaud his patriotism? Conversely, if George Washington had failed, would he have been unpatriotic anti-English scum?

 

[jamesrage]

Again, please answer the questions instead of responding with meaningless crap like this. Would you have condemned George Washington on July 3, 1776 for his despicable unpatriotic actions?



What distinguishes Robert E. Lee and Jefferson Davis from, say, George Washington and John Adams...besides the fact that the latter WON their war of independence?

Your antiamerican moral releativism only works with liberals and other antiamerican individuals

Do you deny that he orchestrated a conspiracy to claim the Western United States as his own country? If he had been successful, would you applaud his patriotism?

I do not know if he did or not of what he was accused and later aquitted of.

 

[Gibberish]

Your antiamerican moral releativism only works with liberals and other antiamerican individuals

Actually he makes perfect sense you’re just dancing around the question.

If the English had won Benedict Arnold would have been a Hero and George Washington and the rest of the revolutionaries would have been labeled traitors and hung as such.

If today teh US had a revolution to get all corrupt and corporate individuals out of government you would call those people traitors and terrorists. If they win their revolution and bring truth and honest to the government they would be considered heroes and patriots, but only if they win.

History is written in the eyes of the winners.

 

[jfuh]

To certian degree you are right.Nationalism sometimes gets abused

Nearly every single instance of nationalist regimes results in one conclusion. Totalitarian dictatorship. That is what you are advocating for. Blind and unquestioning loyalty.
Welcome to N. Korea.

Nationalism is loyalty and love for your country.It is not about beleaving every single piece of information the government puts out.

Who then is to say what is and what isn't garbage? What is and what isn't propaganda? You? Nationalism goes beyond the love and loyalty you state. It has far more reaching controls then you have been led to believe.
Nationalism
Again I bring to light of "states" that adhered strongly to nationalism - Nazi Germany, Facist Italy, Soviet Russia (though, not quite), N. Korea, Maoist China, Imperialist Japan, the list goes on.

Supreme court rullings change,supreme court rulings are based on the ideology of the judges which is why alot of times there is no %100 agreement on everything and why liberals do not want Bush's nominations for judiciall benches.

Is this patriotic? Damning the courts because you don't agree? Quite anti-american it seems. The courts did put Bush into the white house, indeed they are ideological, they were not following by the constitution.

There is no such thing as freedom of expression in the constitution.Speech is either vocal or written words.

Semantics, nothing else. Next?

If you believe limits on what you believe to be a right,what are your views on the second amendmen,do you feel the same way about the right to bear arms?
http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/7362-what-extent-you-support-1st-2nd-amendment.html

My thought on the 2nd amendment are irrelevent here in this thread. We're not arguing about amendments here.
The presentation I've presented is that nationalism is anti-freedom, the sole principle of US culture.
So again borrowing from your questions:
Why do you hate this country?
How long have you been anti-American?
Are Kim Il-Sun, Mussolinni and Hitler your heroes?
+ 1
Why do you advocate facism (extreeme nationalism)?

 

[Hobbes]

Why do you believe loyalty to your country is a bad thing?And you wonder why alot of conservatives think liberals are anti-american.

Here's where you start trying to turn this into a liberal - conservative argument. Things aren't always black and white.

As for the actual discussion perhaps degrees of nationalism need to be considered. As one poster pointed out would you choose the country you're from over another country in war time? If so , that seems to be at least some degree of nationalism. What other words are there for affliation with a particular country over others?

 

[akyron]

what other type of nationalism is there?

Civic nationalism

Ethnic nationalism

Romantic nationalism

Cultural nationalism

Liberal nationalism

State nationalism

Religious nationalism

Diaspora nationalism


Glad to help you out. Thank you for your service.

 

[jamesrage]

Nearly every single instance of nationalist regimes results in one conclusion. Totalitarian dictatorship. That is what you are advocating for. Blind and unquestioning loyalty.
Welcome to N. Korea.

I do not see nationalism requiring blind and unquestioning loyalty.Blind and unquestioning loyalty could lead to globalism/multinationalism and the destruction of this country which contridicts nationalism.

Who then is to say what is and what isn't garbage? What is and what isn't propaganda? You? Nationalism goes beyond the love and loyalty you state. It has far more reaching controls then you have been led to believe.
Nationalism
Again I bring to light of "states" that adhered strongly to nationalism - Nazi Germany, Facist Italy, Soviet Russia (though, not quite), N. Korea, Maoist China, Imperialist Japan, the list goes on.

THose are cases where nationalism and love for country has been misused and abused.

Is this patriotic? Damning the courts because you don't agree? Quite anti-american it seems. The courts did put Bush into the white house, indeed they are ideological, they were not following by the constitution.

Altering the definitions of the constitution to support such abonimations as abortions,strick gun control laws and so on is unpatriotic.

Semantics, nothing else. Next?

Several more conservative judges could equal freedom of speech consisting of verbal(sign languaged or spoken) or written speech and ban flag burning.

My thought on the 2nd amendment are irrelevent here in this thread. We're not arguing about amendments here.
The presentation I've presented is that nationalism is anti-freedom, the sole principle of US culture.

It is a very relevant question when state that rights should not be restricted in any way and it is very relevent when you want to question patriotism.

So again borrowing from your questions:
Why do you hate this country?

How can I hate this country when I am loyal to it?

How long have you been anti-American?

I am not a anti-american,I actually believe in loyalty to the USA.Unlike you and certian other liberals I believe loyalty is a good thing.I do not mock patritism

Why do you advocate facism (extreeme nationalism)?

Where do you see facism in these definitions?Do you just make up the meaning of word?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/patriotism
Love of and devotion to one's country.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=nationalism

n 1: love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it [syn: patriotism] 2: the doctrine that your national culture and interests are superior to any other [ant: multiculturalism, internationalism] 3: the aspiration for national independence felt by people under foreign domination 4: the doctrine that nations should act independently (rather than collectively) to attain their goals [ant: internationalism]

 

[jfuh]

I do not see nationalism requiring blind and unquestioning loyalty.Blind and unquestioning loyalty could lead to globalism/multinationalism and the destruction of this country which contridicts nationalism.

Really? I gave you examples, Musolini, Franco, Hitler, Stalin - Unquestioning blind loyalty to the nation. I've already provided the source, now go read it.
Funny you'd bring up globalism, because you're boyo Bush loves it.

THose are cases where nationalism and love for country has been misused and abused.

And in this country, the minutemen, KKK, Neo-Nazis all throw over themselves with the cover of nationalism.. Yet clearly they've a seperate agenda. Nationalism is only for those with irrational fears.

Altering the definitions of the constitution to support such abonimations as abortions,strick gun control laws and so on is unpatriotic.

Banning AK-47's is unpatriotic when it keeps such weapons out of the hands of violent criminals? Interesing. And nationalism would do away with all these so called abominations? How do you make such a relation?

Several more conservative judges could equal freedom of speech consisting of verbal(sign languaged or spoken) or written speech and ban flag burning.

So says you. But wasn't it a conservative court that allowed for flag burning?

It is a very relevant question when state that rights should not be restricted in any way and it is very relevent when you want to question patriotism.

I'm not questioning patriotism now am I? I'm questioning how you're defining nationalsim to solve any of these problems as well as pointing out the inherent problems with nationalism itself being used by such figures as Mussolini and Stalin. Same old rhetoric.

How can I hate this country when I am loyal to it?

You want to limit freedom through nationalistic overtures, that's as anti-freedom - anti-american as you can get. So with your rhetoric, why do you hate freedom.

I am not a anti-american,I actually believe in loyalty to the USA.Unlike you and certian other liberals I believe loyalty is a good thing.I do not mock patritism

Your argument is nationalism, not patriotism, the two are completely different. Thus the neccessity for two different vocabulary and no, they are not synonomous with each other either. A patriot of freedom understands that nationalism would destroy the very essence of this country, that being freedom. Doesn't get any more anti-american then that. So indeed, as with your rhetoric, you sir are a traitor.

Where do you see facism in these definitions?Do you just make up the meaning of word?

Ahh looking it up in a dictionary? Then you should understand then the intimate relationship between fascism and nationalism. Nation above all else.
Obviously you're obssessed more with the artificial boarders of this nation then you are the principle with which this nation is based on - that being freedom, not nationalism.
N. Korea, don't get any more nationalistic then than - certainly against the principles of freedom.

 

[jamesrage]

Really? I gave you examples, Musolini, Franco, Hitler, Stalin - Unquestioning blind loyalty to the nation. I've already provided the source, now go read it.
Funny you'd bring up globalism, because you're boyo Bush loves it.

Having Bush in office is proably way much better than having Kerry in office

And in this country, the minutemen, KKK, Neo-Nazis all throw over themselves with the cover of nationalism.. Yet clearly they've a seperate agenda.

The minutement are not racist and they are patriots doing a job the government has refused to do.

Banning AK-47's is unpatriotic when it keeps such weapons out of the hands of violent criminals?

So when it comes to certian rights you think there should be restrictions even though the constitution says
"the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"

Interesing. And nationalism would do away with all these so called abominations? How do you make such a relation?

If it was a strict adherence to the constitution.Nationalism is synonymous with patriotism,therefore not adhering to the constitution would be a constridiction to US nationalism

So says you. But wasn't it a conservative court that allowed for flag burning?

I have no idea on that.

I'm not questioning patriotism now am I? I'm questioning how you're defining nationalsim to solve any of these problems as well as pointing out the inherent problems with nationalism itself being used by such figures as Mussolini and Stalin. Same old rhetoric.

So by your logic communism,socialism all those progovernment things liberals love is also bad since Hitler,Stalin, and other vermon in recent history have been either socialist or communist?

Your argument is nationalism, not patriotism, the two are completely different.
Thus the neccessity for two different vocabulary and no, they are not synonomous with each other either.

No they are not different,do I need to bring out the definitions for the 5th or 6th time on this thread?**** it, I will bring out the definitions again and even make the definition jumbo size so you can read it.


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/patriotism
n : love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it [syn: nationalism]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nationalism
n 1: love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it [syn: patriotism]

A patriot of freedom understands that nationalism would destroy the very essence of this country, that being freedom. Doesn't get any more anti-american then that. So indeed, as with your rhetoric, you sir are a traitor.

First you libs mock patriotism now you pretend that you believe it is seperate from nationalism and now you try to alter the definitions of patriotism and nationalism.Did you ride the short bus to school and went to one of those classes that let make up your own words and meanings for those words?

 

[Kandahar]

Jamesrage, I'm curious about something. Please actually answer the question instead of responding with your same irrelevant talking point. If a Hitler-type figure came to power in the United States, and all of our current allies decided to liberate us by invading the United States (assuming for the sake of argument that they had the military might to do so)...

Would you be a patriot to your country, or a patriot to the cause of freedom? In other words, which side would you be on?

 

[jamesrage]

Jamesrage, I'm curious about something. Please actually answer the question instead of responding with your same irrelevant talking point. If a Hitler-type figure came to power in the United States, and all of our current allies decided to liberate us by invading the United States (assuming for the sake of argument that they had the military might to do so)...

Would you be a patriot to your country, or a patriot to the cause of freedom? In other words, which side would you be on?

Patriotism also means not letting some schmuck not totally contridict the values your country was founded upon.So if a Hitler person took over the US and disreguarded our founding documents I would do everything I can to remove this individual from office.

I hope you are not using this anology for some anti-bush nonsense.