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My take on the abortion issue.

Navy Pride

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I personally believe that abortion is the most barbaric act one human being can perpetrate on another unless of the life of the mother is endangered.....
 

zerochik

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maybe you would change your view point give you were in a little different a situation. perhaps if you were the pregnant woman who didnt have the money nor the time to take care of this kid, you would maybe even consider the idea. honestly, i do not think men have the right, pro life or pro choice, to be able to tell a woman to get it or not. i don thtink men have an opinion in this matter at all. they really have the easyest job and thats to provide the sperm. othere then that, their job is done. its not up to them to lug this thing around for 10 months. its not up to them to have to go into labour anywhere from 3 to 23 hours.
 

Navy Pride

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That is a total cop out................There is always the adoption option..........There is a waiting list for new borns for couples wanting to adopt.........There are all kinds of charities that will help a woman with the financial problems including catholic charity services if she wants to carry the pregnancy to term..........I find it puzzling that you have no compassion for the unborn............Who speaks for him or her?
 

Schweddy

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Navy Pride said:
I personally believe that abortion is the most barbaric act one human being can perpetrate on another unless of the life of the mother is endangered.....
I concure, and even then it should be considered carefully.
 

Alex

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I agree that abortion is not a good act, but the fact remains that it is necessary to keep it legal. Women who want an abortion will get one whether it is legal or not. The difference is that they will have to seek substandard abortions if it is illegal. That is putting the life of the women on the line.

Approximately 1,370,000 abortions occur annually in the United States.

Source:
http://womensissues.about.com/cs/abortionstats/a/aaabortionstats.htm

There are not 1.37 million people in the country who want to adopt babies per year. That means more unwanted babies who need to be taken care of by someone. Aren't there enough of those already? This would undoubtably lead to higher taxes so the babies would have what they need to live. I already pay enough taxes. I find it troubling that conservatives are always preaching about the evils of abortions and in the same breath they call for lower taxes. How is it possible to have both?
 

Navy Pride

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alex said:
I agree that abortion is not a good act, but the fact remains that it is necessary to keep it legal. Women who want an abortion will get one whether it is legal or not. The difference is that they will have to seek substandard abortions if it is illegal. That is putting the life of the women on the line.

Approximately 1,370,000 abortions occur annually in the United States.

Source:
http://womensissues.about.com/cs/abortionstats/a/aaabortionstats.htm

There are not 1.37 million people in the country who want to adopt babies per year. That means more unwanted babies who need to be taken care of by someone. Aren't there enough of those already? This would undoubtably lead to higher taxes so the babies would have what they need to live. I already pay enough taxes. I find it troubling that conservatives are always preaching about the evils of abortions and in the same breath they call for lower taxes. How is it possible to have both?
You are wrong.........There are long waiting lists to adopt new borns.....I have friends who waited 3 years and then adopted from South Korea......No new born would go unclaimed........

There have been over 40,000,000 abortions since Roe V Wade was enacted in 1972....................A lot of them strictly for convenience or birth control.......That is totally unacceptable........
 

Arthur Fonzarelli

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zerochik said:
maybe you would change your view point give you were in a little different a situation. perhaps if you were the pregnant woman who didnt have the money nor the time to take care of this kid, you would maybe even consider the idea. honestly, i do not think men have the right, pro life or pro choice, to be able to tell a woman to get it or not. i don thtink men have an opinion in this matter at all. they really have the easyest job and thats to provide the sperm. othere then that, their job is done. its not up to them to lug this thing around for 10 months. its not up to them to have to go into labour anywhere from 3 to 23 hours.
yeah...men have no rights concerning a child they helped create...unless of course the woman has the child then the man has the right to pay child support.

A man is supposed not have any feelings towards a child he participated in conceiving but should suddenly be superdad if the child is born.

you people should have been aborted...
 

cnredd

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zerochik said:
maybe you would change your view point give you were in a little different a situation. perhaps if you were the pregnant woman who didnt have the money nor the time to take care of this kid, you would maybe even consider the idea.
Well here's an idea...CLAP!

Did you hear that? That was the sound of a woman's legs closing because she doesn't have the accountability or the responsibility to deal with the outcome of sexual relations. That's the way it should be. Instead, it seems the public wants to live the lifestyle of "Sarah Jessica Parker and the Ho-bag Trio" without dealing with the consequences.
 
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Gandhi>Bush

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You know what this is? This is the world's smallest violin playing for all the parents that would have to accept responsibility for their actions.
 

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Life is anything that can start to duplicate itself.
 

Navy Pride

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galenrox said:
Fine, why don't they adopt an older child, you know, one that at least has a basic idea of what's going on, and is able to realize that it's rotting in foster care? It's ****ing sick that you're ******* and moaning about there not being enough newborns in foster care, when if these people actually wanted to help out a kid, they should help out an older one, and getting a newborn is just ****ing self serving bullshit because they want something really ****ing cute. **** that argument, that ****'s for the birds.
You know what this is? It's the world's smallest violin playing just for all of the aborted fetuses.
Older children not being adopted has nothing to do with abortion..........That is a sad situation but a red herring used by the pro abortion types to justify muder in the womb..........Every child conceived has a right to life........It is ironic that those of you on the left have compassion for murderers and rapists condemned to death but you have none for the innocent baby in the womb............
 

Navy Pride

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galenrox said:
yeah, once the kid is viable, sure, until then, I disagree, if it can't continue to develop outside of the mother, than I don't view it as a human being and I don't think it is owed anything.
If your going yo error why not error on the side of life?
 

ShamMol

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Navy Pride said:
If your going yo error why not error on the side of life?
Actually, based on a legal principle we can't outlaw abortion. We don't for sure whether or not it is human. It is called reasonable doubt. When you don't know, you can't outlaw. Once you know for sure, fine, but not before.

I would actually like to test this theory out in court, but I doubt it would fly.
 

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Gee Galenrox, I didn't know things not alive could reproduce themselves by dividing cells!

As to freedom, whose freedom, the murder or the unborn life?
 

Navy Pride

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galenrox said:
Alright, so next time you get pregnant, don't get an abortion, if you believe it's a baby, so I don't, nor does my girlfriend, so don't try to push your beliefs on us.

Have you ever considered the possibility that maybe your wrong? If what i believe is wrong its no big deal, if what you believe is wrong then 40,000,000 babies have been murdered in the womb since 1972..........
 

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neo-liberals don't care about the rights of the unborn....yet interestingly enough, they oppose the death penalty for murderers!
 

Hoot

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No one is for abortion.

The problem is the 'right' attacks the problem after the fact...after the girl is pregnant...instead of looking at ways to prevent pregnancy in the first place.

The 'right' is against wide spread availability of contraceptives, and against furthering sex education in schools. Heaven forbid we teach school children the way to put a condom on a cucumber! The 'right' would be aghast at such teaching!

Yet, if teaching kids the correct way to use condoms would help prevent even one abortion, wouldn't you think the 'right' would support this?

It's hypocritical to be pro-life and yet, against everything that would help prevent pregnancy in the first place.
 

Kelzie

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Navy Pride said:
Have you ever considered the possibility that maybe your wrong? If what i believe is wrong its no big deal, if what you believe is wrong then 40,000,000 babies have been murdered in the womb since 1972..........
Just curious, do you seriously believe that 40 million families since 1972 want to adopt? That's like 14% of our population...
 

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Navy Pride said:
Have you ever considered the possibility that maybe your wrong? If what i believe is wrong its no big deal, if what you believe is wrong then 40,000,000 babies have been murdered in the womb since 1972..........
Have you ever considered you are wrong? No? Thought so.
 

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Navy Pride said:
You are wrong.........There are long waiting lists to adopt new borns.....I have friends who waited 3 years and then adopted from South Korea......No new born would go unclaimed........

There have been over 40,000,000 abortions since Roe V Wade was enacted in 1972....................A lot of them strictly for convenience or birth control.......That is totally unacceptable........
Here are the statistics on people seeking adoption:

The 1995 National Survey of Family Growth found that 500,000 women were currently seeking to adopt a child. (Freundlich, 1998)
Of the 500,000 women seeking to adopt, only 100,000 had actually applied to adopt a child. (National Center for Health Statistics, 1997)
Source: http://statistics.adoption.com/information/adoption-statistics-hoping-to-adopt.html

Only 500,000 seeking to adopt a child. Only 100,000 actually applied to adopt.

The numbers did not change much from 1995 to 1997 as can be seen here:

http://statistics.adoption.com/information/adoption-statistics-filing-trends-1988-1997.html

All but seven states are listed, but we can add in the average to account for each of those states. That means that 96,615 people have filed for adoption in 1997. That is a 9.3% increase from 1996 to 1997. If this trend has continued, there are now 168,496 people who have filed for adoption this year (9.3% each year for 8 years). If abortion is made illegal and adoption is the alternative, 1.37 million babies will need to be adopted each year. That means that 1.2 million babies will still need homes.

We can take into account all people seeking adoption and assume they follow through. This yields better results, but still many babies needing homes. Lets assume that the 500,000 people seeking adoptions will get it. A 9.3% increase over 10 years (from 1995 to 2005) will mean 965,000 people will get children. And remember that that is still only if they follow through. With 1.37 million adoption potentials instead of abortions each year, that results in 405,000 babies still needing homes. All this still does not take into account the number of people seeking adoption decreasing each year because the people have found a child to adopt the previous year.
 

Navy Pride

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Hoot said:
No one is for abortion.

The problem is the 'right' attacks the problem after the fact...after the girl is pregnant...instead of looking at ways to prevent pregnancy in the first place.

The 'right' is against wide spread availability of contraceptives, and against furthering sex education in schools. Heaven forbid we teach school children the way to put a condom on a cucumber! The 'right' would be aghast at such teaching!

Yet, if teaching kids the correct way to use condoms would help prevent even one abortion, wouldn't you think the 'right' would support this?

It's hypocritical to be pro-life and yet, against everything that would help prevent pregnancy in the first place.
There is only one sure way to prevent pregnancy and that is abstinence and when you tell a young kid how to use a rubber they take it that you are condoning what they do and its alright.........
 

Navy Pride

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Kelzie said:
Just curious, do you seriously believe that 40 million families since 1972 want to adopt? That's like 14% of our population...
I don't know but the fact remains that 40,000,000 were aborted.....That is a 33 year time period so I think there is a good chance they could have been adopted............
 

Navy Pride

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ShamMol said:
Have you ever considered you are wrong? No? Thought so.
I told you if I am wrong then they are not babies but only a clump of cells......If you are wrong its murder..........
 

Hoot

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Navy Pride said:
There is only one sure way to prevent pregnancy and that is abstinence and when you tell a young kid how to use a rubber they take it that you are condoning what they do and its alright.........
Abstinance programs have been a supreme failure, and studies have shown that teens actually have increased sex after these programs.

Abstinance does not work, and yet Bush wants to blow another 130 million promoting a program that has not shown even one sign of success.

Do your own search if you don't believe me...the evidence is out there everywhere.

Here's just one study...


Texas Teens Increased Sex After Abstinence Program

Mon Jan 31, 4:43 PM ET

HOUSTON (Reuters) - Abstinence-only sex education programs, a major plank in President Bush (news - web sites)'s education plan, have had no impact on teenagers' behavior in his home state of Texas, according to a new study.

Despite taking courses emphasizing abstinence-only themes, teenagers in 29 high schools became increasingly sexually active, mirroring the overall state trends, according to the study conducted by researchers at Texas A&M University.

"We didn't see any strong indications that these programs were having an impact in the direction desired," said Dr. Buzz Pruitt, who directed the study.

The study was delivered to the Texas Department of State Health Services, which commissioned it.

The federal government is expected to spend about $130 million to fund programs advocating abstinence in 2005, despite a lack of evidence that they work, Pruitt said.

"The jury is still out, but most of what we've discovered shows there's no evidence the large amount of money spent is having an effect," he said.

The study showed about 23 percent of ninth-grade girls, typically 13 to 14 years old, had sex before receiving abstinence education. After taking the course, 29 percent of the girls in the same group said they had had sex.

Boys in the tenth grade, about 14 to 15 years old, showed a more marked increase, from 24 percent to 39 percent, after receiving abstinence education.

Abstinence-only programs, which have sprouted up in schools across the nation, cannot offer information about birth control and must promote the social and health benefits of abstaining from sex.

Pruitt said he hoped the study would bring about changes in the content of abstinence-promoting programs.

"These programs seem to be much more concerned about politics than kids, and we need to get over that," he said.

One program technique has been to try to bolster students' self-esteem, based on the theory that self-confident teenagers would not have sex. Those programs, which sometimes do not even mention sex, have shown no effect, Pruitt said.

Other programs that focus on the social norms and expectations appear to be more successful, he said.
 

Gandhi>Bush

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Navy Pride said:
There is only one sure way to prevent pregnancy and that is abstinence and when you tell a young kid how to use a rubber they take it that you are condoning what they do and its alright.........
I think showing an adolescent how to use a condom is not condoning it, though I do think that passing condoms out in school is too far.

Showing them how to be responsible with a choice and empowering them to make that choice in a certain direction is how I see the difference.

I'm pro-life when it comes to abortion, but I think the best way to prevent pregnancy isn't a condom it's proper education. Making them aware of responsiblities and how to be responsible.

Demonizing this problem down to abstinence has been proven to be ineffective. Tell them how to be resonsible so that you can expect them to be responsible.
 
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