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Mussolini and fascism are both left wing

Mussolini was the father of fascism. Lets look at some facts about Mussolini:

Mussolini was an Atheist:
He believed that science had proven there was no god, and that the historical Jesus was ignorant and mad. He considered religion a disease of the psyche, and accused Christianity of promoting resignation and cowardice.


Mussolini was a student of Marx:
Mussolini was so familiar with Marxist literature that in his own writings he would not only quote from well-known Marxist works but also from the relatively obscure works.[26] During this period Mussolini considered himself an "authoritarian communist"[27] and a Marxist and he described Karl Marx as "the greatest of all theorists of socialism."

He was a member of the Italian Socialist Party and the editor of its newspaper, Avanti! Mussolini was expelled from the party only because of him supporting military intervention into the war (the party wanted neutrality), not because he rejected socialism.


Let's now look at what he accomplished during his reign.

He imposed unionization:

Under this labour policy, Fascist Italy enacted laws to make union membership compulsory for all workers.


Massive amount of government spending on infrastructure, schools, etc.:

Mussolini’s spending on the public sector, schools and infrastructure was considered extravagant. Mussolini "instituted a programme of public works hitherto unrivaled in modern Europe. Bridges, canals and roads were built, hospitals and schools, railway stations and orphanages; swamps were drained and land reclaimed, forests were planted and universities were endowed". As for the scope and spending on social welfare programs, Italian fascism "compared favorably with the more advanced European nations and in some respect was more progressive".


Mussolini imposed a large and expansive welfare state:

By 1925, the Fascist government had "embarked upon an elaborate program" that included food supplementary assistance, infant care, maternity assistance, general healthcare, wage supplements, paid vacations, unemployment benefits, illness insurance, occupational disease insurance, general family assistance, public housing and old age and disability insurance.


He made a direct comparison between his government policies, and FDR's government policies:

When New York city politician Grover Aloysius Whalen asked Mussolini about the meaning behind Italian fascism in 1939, the reply was: "It is like your New Deal!".


Mussolini referred to himself as the "Lenin of Italy":

During the 1919 elections, the Fascists had attempted to court the socialist-left while publicly dubbing himself the “Lenin of Italy”,[13] attempting to “out-socialist the socialists”


He was a collectivist, and hated individualism:

Anti-individualistic, the Fascist conception of life stresses the importance of the State and accepts the individual only in so far as his interests coincide with those of the State, which stands for the conscience and the universal, will of man as a historic entity.


Last but not least, fascist Italy had a very high degree of public ownership of the means of production:

By 1939, Fascist Italy attained the highest rate of state ownership of any economy in the world other than the Soviet Union.

As anyone can see, Mussolini was clearly left wing. Socialism is a spectrum, with dozens of different variations. Lenin had his own version (Leninism), Stalin had his own version (Stalinism), Mao had his own version (Maoism) and Mussolini had his own version, which he named fascism.
 
Okay, what sources, other than your imagination, do you have?

“I have learned a great deal from Marxism” … “as I do not hesitate to admit” Hitler​


[My task is to] “convert the German volk (people) to socialism without simply killing off the old individualists” Hitler​


“If we are socialists, then we must definitely be anti-semites – and the opposite, in that case, is Materialism and Mammonism, which we seek to oppose.” “How, as a socialist, can you not be an anti-semite?” Hitler​

 

“I have learned a great deal from Marxism” … “as I do not hesitate to admit” Hitler​


[My task is to] “convert the German volk (people) to socialism without simply killing off the old individualists” Hitler​


“If we are socialists, then we must definitely be anti-semites – and the opposite, in that case, is Materialism and Mammonism, which we seek to oppose.” “How, as a socialist, can you not be an anti-semite?” Hitler​


Random cherry-picked quotes out of context...are not evidence. Sorry.
 

“I have learned a great deal from Marxism” … “as I do not hesitate to admit” Hitler​


[My task is to] “convert the German volk (people) to socialism without simply killing off the old individualists” Hitler​


“If we are socialists, then we must definitely be anti-semites – and the opposite, in that case, is Materialism and Mammonism, which we seek to oppose.” “How, as a socialist, can you not be an anti-semite?” Hitler​

The problem here is that you literally cannot take anything a fascists says directly as evidence of anything. Lying and propaganda are in their nature and there is no real way to separate fact from that. This is why you need to look at third party analysis.

The facts bear that Nazis killed a whole lot of socialists.
 
Hitler did. Mussolini did. Honest? That’s what you need to look up in Wiki.

Oh, you want to look up something in Wiki?

Tell me what political parties the Nazis formed a coalition with.
 
lol wiki - epic fail. It’s yours why don’t you want to admit it?

The point is.... you wouldn't accept any credible information source.

It's a hallmark of a cult.
 
Random cherry-picked quotes out of context...are not evidence. Sorry.
Yes when they actually are spoken about his own ideology they do. Your dismissal is irrelevant.
 
The problem here is that you literally cannot take anything a fascists says directly as evidence of anything. Lying and propaganda are in their nature and there is no real way to separate fact from that. This is why you need to look at third party analysis.

The facts bear that Nazis killed a whole lot of socialists.
They killed a whole of people. Including Germans for various reasons , Hitler specifically went after Bolsheviks.
 
The point is.... you wouldn't accept any credible information source.

It's a hallmark of a cult.
Seems to me that it’s usually your side doing the dismissing, I just threw a little back at you from a publicly administered site which has definitely gone left wing.
 
Seems to me that it’s usually your side doing the dismissing, I just threw a little back at you from a publicly administered site which has definitely gone left wing.

So what did wikipedia say about the political parties the Nazis formed a coalition with?
 
Seems to me that it’s usually your side doing the dismissing, I just threw a little back at you from a publicly administered site which has definitely gone left wing.

I someone won't accept reality, and I provided a definitive reality regarding Fascism, then they belong to Trump's cult.

You'll have to make your own choices. But those choices do not go unnoticed on this board.
 
I someone won't accept reality, and I provided a definitive reality regarding Fascism, then they belong to Trump's cult.

You'll have to make your own choices. But those choices do not go unnoticed on this board.
The ideology is inconsistent with small government individual Liberty right wing politics. No amount saying “it’s right wing” will ever change the fact that Top down central control is incompatible with Right wing anything. It’s the left wing that wants central authority, central banks, and a large enough government to enforce it.
 
The ideology is inconsistent with small government individual Liberty right wing politics. No amount saying “it’s right wing” will ever change the fact that Top down central control is incompatible with Right wing anything. It’s the left wing that wants central authority, central banks, and a large enough government to enforce it.
You are confusing right wing ideology with libertarian ideology. While right wingers do contain a libertarian faction, that libertarian faction does not describe all of the people on the right wing, many of whom are quite authoritarian and desire central control through government.
 
You are confusing right wing ideology with libertarian ideology. While right wingers do contain a libertarian faction, that libertarian faction does not describe all of the people on the right wing, many of whom are quite authoritarian and desire central control through government.
You can admittedly point to individuals who resemble that description in the Republican ranks, but unlike the left where it’s doctrine, no where can you point to top down authoritarian right wing platform.
 
You can admittedly point individuals who resemble that description in the Republican ranks, but unlike the left where it’s doctrine, no where can point to top down authoritarian right wing platform.
It depends on the particular liberal, some are more authoritarian and some are less authoritarian.

In short the whole trope you are coming from does not represent reality.
 
In 1912, he became a member of the National Directorate of the Italian Socialist Party (PSI).[24] He was rewarded with the editorship of the Socialist Party newspaper Avanti! Under his leadership, its circulation soon rose from 20,000 to 100,000.[25] John Gunther in 1940 called him "one of the best journalists alive"; Mussolini was a working reporter while preparing for the March on Rome, and wrote for the Hearst News Service until 1935.[12] Mussolini was so familiar with Marxist literature that in his own writings he would not only quote from well-known Marxist works but also from the relatively obscure works.[26] During this period Mussolini considered himself an "authoritarian communist"[27] and a Marxist and he described Karl Marx as "the greatest of all theorists of socialism."[28]

In 1913, he published Giovanni Hus, il veridico (Jan Hus, true prophet), an historical and political biography about the life and mission of the Czech ecclesiastic reformer Jan Hus and his militant followers, the Hussites. During this socialist period of his life, Mussolini sometimes used the pen name "Vero Eretico" ("sincere heretic").[29]

Mussolini rejected egalitarianism,[30] a core doctrine of socialism.[30] He was influenced by Nietzsche's anti-Christian ideas and negation of God's existence.[31] Mussolini felt that socialism had faltered, in view of the failures of Marxist determinism and social democratic reformism, and believed that Nietzsche's ideas would strengthen socialism. While associated with socialism, Mussolini's writings eventually indicated that he had abandoned Marxism and egalitarianism in favour of Nietzsche's übermensch concept and anti-egalitarianism.
[31]

There isn't a whole lot separating an authoritarian communist and a fascist (see horseshoe theory). But to call fascism 'left-wing' is downright dishonest. Why people like @aociswundumho insist on it is mind-boggling. Why is it so hard for certain conservatives and right-libertarians to accept there are terrible authoritarian people on both the political right AND the left? What a stupid hill to die on.
 
No, I'm not interested in other threads. If any of the claims I made are false, then go ahead quote the specific text.

But if those claims are true, then Mussolini was obviously and glaringly left wing.

I was a conservative when I was in high school. So by your logic that makes me a conservative now. :rolleyes:
 
My impression is that there are more leftists who become rightists than there are rightists who become leftists. If Jesus has gotten older in heaven, he may be looking back at his younger, social justice self and saying, "Jeez, what was I thinking?"
 
Mussolini was the father of fascism. Lets look at some facts about Mussolini:

Mussolini was an Atheist:



Mussolini was a student of Marx:


He was a member of the Italian Socialist Party and the editor of its newspaper, Avanti! Mussolini was expelled from the party only because of him supporting military intervention into the war (the party wanted neutrality), not because he rejected socialism.


Let's now look at what he accomplished during his reign.

He imposed unionization:




Massive amount of government spending on infrastructure, schools, etc.:




Mussolini imposed a large and expansive welfare state:




He made a direct comparison between his government policies, and FDR's government policies:




Mussolini referred to himself as the "Lenin of Italy":




He was a collectivist, and hated individualism:




Last but not least, fascist Italy had a very high degree of public ownership of the means of production:



As anyone can see, Mussolini was clearly left wing. Socialism is a spectrum, with dozens of different variations. Lenin had his own version (Leninism), Stalin had his own version (Stalinism), Mao had his own version (Maoism) and Mussolini had his own version, which he named fascism.
he was socially right wing.
Mussolini was the father of fascism. Lets look at some facts about Mussolini:

Mussolini was an Atheist:



Mussolini was a student of Marx:


He was a member of the Italian Socialist Party and the editor of its newspaper, Avanti! Mussolini was expelled from the party only because of him supporting military intervention into the war (the party wanted neutrality), not because he rejected socialism.


Let's now look at what he accomplished during his reign.

He imposed unionization:




Massive amount of government spending on infrastructure, schools, etc.:




Mussolini imposed a large and expansive welfare state:




He made a direct comparison between his government policies, and FDR's government policies:




Mussolini referred to himself as the "Lenin of Italy":




He was a collectivist, and hated individualism:




Last but not least, fascist Italy had a very high degree of public ownership of the means of production:



As anyone can see, Mussolini was clearly left wing. Socialism is a spectrum, with dozens of different variations. Lenin had his own version (Leninism), Stalin had his own version (Stalinism), Mao had his own version (Maoism) and Mussolini had his own version, which he named fascism.
he was on the social right. It was the liberal US and communist Russia that were allied you know.
 
There isn't a whole lot separating an authoritarian communist and a fascist (see horseshoe theory).

Horseshoe theory is bullshit and you know it.

But to call fascism 'left-wing' is downright dishonest.

It is not dishonest. Fascism is clearly left-wing based on the duck test.

No doubt you agree Ayn Rand was far-right, so what does she have in common with Mussolini? Nothing.
 
Why people like @aociswundumho insist on it is mind-boggling.

Because his beliefs only work if he sticks to the narrow interpretation of politics and reality.

It is not dishonest.

Yes it is.

Fascism is clearly left-wing based on the duck test.

No it isn't.

No doubt you agree Ayn Rand was far-right, so what does she have in common with Mussolini? Nothing.

Ayn Rand would bitch at you for calling her "far right".
 
... and its methods, concentrating political authority, are closer to the methods of big government liberals than they are to small government conservatives, which is all I've really said here. See post 140.
Your posts mix apples and fish.

In Europe fascism was not and is not about "small government."

In the US small government conservatives are the core Never Trumpers.

Trump does not care about the size of government because he considers himself only and alone as the government itself. And we know Trump is both big and fat, same as any Republican Party government to include Reagan who was the red ink president, same as the Bush family. Same as Trump. Same as DeFasc DeSantis in FL and for president.

Fascists in Europe and in the USA are impervious to the size of government. If anything, the bigger the better for 'em. Which means your posts are in the wrong forest concerning the size of government as a, or the determining ideological and philosophical factor.
 
Your posts mix apples and fish.

In Europe fascism was not and is not about "small government."

In the US small government conservatives are the core Never Trumpers.

Trump does not care about the size of government because he considers himself only and alone as the government itself. And we know Trump is both big and fat, same as any Republican Party government to include Reagan who was the red ink president, same as the Bush family. Same as Trump. Same as DeFasc DeSantis in FL and for president.

Fascists in Europe and in the USA are impervious to the size of government. If anything, the bigger the better for 'em. Which means your posts are in the wrong forest concerning the size of government as a, or the determining ideological and philosophical factor.
Trump has nothing to do with what I’ve said here. You’re the one who’s off topic.
 
Trump has nothing to do with what I’ve said here. You’re the one who’s off topic.
Trumpolini.

My post was about small government and that either way the size of government is not a factor in identifying fascism.

To the contrary, your posts that would have the size of government as your central factor fails. Your posts misidentify fascism completely. My thrust is that both left and right live by big government. Which leaves the question for whom, of whom, by whom.
 
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