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Republic_Of_Public

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I tried to write a reply to this whole Mosque-in-Cologne-causing-anger thing but the forum timed me out and bounced me away from where the topic was. Dunno where it was now, so here's the text on its own:



Nothing new here, unfortunately. In London we're supposed to have this mega-mosque dwarfing all around it, the 'community leaders' have been clamouring to have their wailing and screeching bellowing out through speakers across the spires of old Oxford at six in the morning, and in Manchester now new Muslim owners of a church have levelled the graveyard for a car park.

It's happening over and over. This is the cultural clash hitting us square in the face and it just won't stop until we stop it. How? Well, think for yourself as nobody in power will lend an ear to the rest of us.

The 'active' vanguard of supremacist Muslims (and I'm not just talking of Anjem Choudary and the 'lyrical terrorist' who kept dildos under her bed because her insane doctrine forbad normal relations) are on the march and it's damn obvious to everyone that they want to set their flag, entrench their culture and establish their no-go ghettos in the most 'radicalised' areas of our scumbag inner cities.

This isn't just about mosques, it's about massive complexes designed to overpower, which is why they all want the big multi-million-Pound buildings with the minarets. And so soon after bitching all their lives about British colonialism and its tokens! They've had dhimmi politicians and government officials enact barmy legislation exempting Muslim butchers from certain animal rights laws, helped set the Sharia courts which oppress and have not stood up to them when some barmy legal case involving women and plaster pigs goes to court. Recent polls, even by the likes of Channel Four, show up to a quarter of 'British' Muslims sympathise with extremists or that just-about most think British culture is sub-par and ripe for replacement by Sharia.

Ordinary people have to watch what they say, think and do, lest some council official gets upset at the behest of some swivel-headed zealot. You can't eat in front of them during Ramadan else you'll be sacked from your job in the council! We have to show 'awareness', 'tolerance' and show 'outreach' to a group of people who don't often seem to show a bit of care for the rest, particularly Sikhs, Jews and homos.

Islam is the most aggressively imperialist faith so who can be surprised when their followers do what their culture has taught them? Indeed, an EC-sponsored book from 1979 advised Muslims In Non-Muslim Countries not to assimilate and to build up large ethno-religious blocs to storm the political establishments with.

But the people who are really to blame are the politicians who grovel, who betray their people and who cower before 'community leaders' who threaten riots if they're not acquiessed to and paid protection money. We get them anyway, as the burnt ruins of Northern Europe can prove.

We've got a fifth column, an enemy within who must be curbed somehow. But until our governments get fearless and start rejecting the pushy and mass-expelling the dangerous, this menace shall only grow.

I just pity the 'ordinary' Muslims who just want to get on with life, as before long they'll be caught between a frustrated and compromised public and the grown band of extremists who want to induct every last one. It's coming to that.
 
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I tried to write a reply to this whole Mosque-in-Cologne-causing-anger thing but the forum timed me out and bounced me away from where the topic was. Dunno where it was now, so here's the text on its own:



Nothing new here, unfortunately. In London we're supposed to have this mega-mosque dwarfing all around it, the 'community leaders' have been clamouring to have their wailing and screeching bellowing out through speakers across the spires of old Oxford at six in the morning, and in Manchester now new Muslim owners of a church have levelled the graveyard for a car park.

It's happening over and over. This is the cultural clash hitting us square in the face and it just won't stop until we stop it. How? Well, think for yourself as nobody in power will lend an ear to the rest of us.

The 'active' vanguard of supremacist Muslims (and I'm not just talking of Anjem Choudary and the 'lyrical terrorist' who kept dildos under her bed because her insane doctrine forbad normal relations) are on the march and it's damn obvious to everyone that they want to set their flag, entrench their culture and establish their no-go ghettos in the most 'radicalised' areas of our scumbag inner cities.

This isn't just about mosques, it's about massive complexes designed to overpower, which is why they all want the big multi-million-Pound buildings with the minarets. And so soon after bitching all their lives about British colonialism and its tokens! They've had dhimmi politicians and government officials enact barmy legislation exempting Muslim butchers from certain animal rights laws, helped set the Sharia courts which oppress and have not stood up to them when some barmy legal case involving women and plaster pigs goes to court. Recent polls, even by the likes of Channel Four, show up to a quarter of 'British' Muslims sympathise with extremists or that just-about most think British culture is sub-par and ripe for replacement by Sharia.

Ordinary people have to watch what they say, think and do, lest some council official gets upset at the behest of some swivel-headed zealot. You can't eat in front of them during Ramadan else you'll be sacked from your job in the council! We have to show 'awareness', 'tolerance' and show 'outreach' to a group of people who don't often seem to show a bit of care for the rest, particularly Sikhs, Jews and homos.

Islam is the most aggressively imperialist faith so who can be surprised when their followers do what their culture has taught them? Indeed, an EC-sponsored book from 1979 advised Muslims In Non-Muslim Countries not to assimilate and to build up large ethno-religious blocs to storm the political establishments with.

But the people who are really to blame are the politicians who grovel, who betray their people and who cower before 'community leaders' who threaten riots if they're not acquiessed to and paid protection money. We get them anyway, as the burnt ruins of Northern Europe can prove.

We've got a fifth column, an enemy within who must be curbed somehow. But until our governments get fearless and start rejecting the pushy and mass-expelling the dangerous, this menace shall only grow.

I just pity the 'ordinary' Muslims who just want to get on with life, as before long they'll be caught between a frustrated and compromised public and the grown band of extremists who want to induct every last one. It's coming to that.

Why are you not complaining about the "giant" Russian orthodox cathedral in london?
 

Republic_Of_Public

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Because Russian Catholics are hardly a ticking timebomb (to use an unfortunate phrase). They are an assimilatable and benign people with (as far as I'm aware) no hard crust of dogmatic fanatics seeking to leave their deep cultural imprint on the UK.
 

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Because Russian Catholics are hardly a ticking timebomb (to use an unfortunate phrase). They are an assimilatable and benign people with (as far as I'm aware) no hard crust of dogmatic fanatics seeking to leave their deep cultural imprint on the UK.

Sure but i see where mosques come into it.
 

bub

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the question should rather be "should there be a maximum quota of immigrants" IMO

We have to be open to foreign influences, but we also have to protect our cultures. When the proportion of foreigners reaches 60 or 70% in many districts of our capital cities, and that they start transforming the landscape (by building giant mosques for example) I think that there is a problem.

I'm not against their presence here, but at the condition that they adapt to our customs and integrate our culture. And that is not possible when they're too numerous.
 

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...or too dominating.

You don't have to be some kind of hateful racist to think it a great pity for our Western cultures, demographic and (yes, dare I say it) genotype to be changed forever. Gone. They say that in 50-200 years time (depending on which paper you read), the white British (of whatever European origin) shall be an ethnic minority across the UK, with all the cultural and genetic exchanges that implies.

I'm as tolerant and accepting as any other reasonable person in giving shelter to those who need it and experiencing a few new people and lifestyles. But not when too many cooks spoil the broth, as it were.

It's perfectly natural to feel that where you live should be familiar, 'yours' and unemcumbered by volatile outside forces. I may not be putting things as clear as I would like, but I do know this is why so many foreigners across the world resented British colonial rule.
 
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-- Nothing new here, unfortunately. In London we're supposed to have this mega-mosque dwarfing all around it

Didn't that get quashed in 2007? Link: Timesonline

-- entrench their culture and establish their no-go ghettos in the most 'radicalised' areas of our scumbag inner cities.

"Scumbag inner cities" - why isn't our much vaunted ancient British culture saving the "scumbag inner cities?"

Seems to me most Brits want to stay away from sink-estates and even many city centres on a Friday / Saturday night? By our own countries inaction - we create the conditions for such estates to be the only areas poor immigrants can afford to live in.

-- enact barmy legislation exempting Muslim butchers from certain animal rights laws, helped set the Sharia courts

Aren't those the same legislations and courts that Jews have had here and in Europe and the US for centuries? Or have you never heard of "Beth Din?"

the question should rather be "should there be a maximum quota of immigrants" IMO

Absolutely - but that also includes internal migrants across the EU.

-- When the proportion of foreigners reaches 60 or 70% in many districts of our capital cities

Been through this with Wessexman in another thread - migrants settle where the work (demand for them) and prices are right. That's not their fault.

-- and that they start transforming the landscape (by building giant mosques for example)

Agree this, the UK supermosque was stopped when hints that a radical Islamic group backed with Saudi funds was behind the scheme.

The problem is integration and getting groups to adapt - like learning our languages. In some instances it is number but not the numbers that are generally put about by strange US sources about Europe becoming over-run by Muslims with higher birth-rates.

-- They say that in 50-200 years time (depending on which paper you read), the white British (of whatever European origin) shall be an ethnic minority across the UK, with all the cultural and genetic exchanges that implies--

Educate yourself
 

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Been through this with Wessexman in another thread - migrants settle where the work (demand for them) and prices are right. That's not their fault.

Indeed they're looking for work, but unfortunately there isn't any work anymore. In the parts of Brussels where most of the immigrants settle, unemployment reaches 40 or 50%. Unfortunately, most of them don't have any diploma (even the 2nd & 3rd generations rarely have more than a high school degree), they usually can't speak Dutch and English and their French is not always very good...they don't have any chance to get a good job
 

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...they don't have any chance to get a good job
In the past, to immigrate to the United States one had to have a US citizen sponsor and a job already lined up. Don't know if this is still true.
 

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In the past, to immigrate to the United States one had to have a US citizen sponsor and a job already lined up. Don't know if this is still true.

I think that Canada does it.

We should do the same, we don't need more unskilled labor force that is going to end up in ghettos anyway.

I know that they're poor and that they'd like to be as rich as us, but taking 1% of the African/Asian population and letting them reach our standard of living while forgetting 99% of them won't solve anything, immigrants will keep on coming. What we have to do is to stop the "familial reunifications" and spend more money (and more efficiently, so far we just drop some millions of euros that are used by their presidents to buy big black bmws) in these countries, so that their economy improves.

The EU has invested massively in Ireland, Spain and Portugal, and these countries are now as rich as the rest of the Union, Irish people don't have incentives to emigrate anymore. I read that the Polish economy is booming and that Polish immigrants go back to Poland, that's the solution! (I'm not saying that I don't want to see polish guys in the streets, but rather that it's not normal that a million of polish people immigrate to London)
 

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I don't think the mega-mosque has actually been cancelled. And even if it was, that wouldn't stop the people who want it crying out for it. And some of them are charming people I'm sure: Death threats on YouTube for mosque opponent | News

"Scumbag inner cities" - why isn't our much vaunted ancient British culture saving the "scumbag inner cities?"

To be clearer, it's only the scumbags to be scorned, not the cities. Otherwise the architects of the once-pristine tower blocks, community centres and parks would have drawn in the smashed bus shelters, gutted cars, litter tips, drug dens, assaulted men, raped women and vandalised houses.

And as you know, culture's wasted on the vermin of society. And normal people could do with a few shots of culture in our schools again; I certainly remember none from when I was there a few years back.

Aren't those the same legislations and courts that Jews have had here and in Europe and the US for centuries? Or have you never heard of "Beth Din?"

I think everybody should live under the same laws. There are plenty to safeguard everybody, leastways in principle.

And as for the Muslim population explosion, people supporting this thesis have worked on the premise that whilst the 'white indigenous' population remains static, Asian Muslim families tend to have 4 babies on average. And in some places there are Muslim population percentages larger than the others, a fact which for many of us seems a portent of things to come.

There's quite a few odds and ends to look at amongst this pile: [ame=http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=muslim+population+explosion&meta=cr%3DcountryUK%7CcountryGB]muslim population explosion - Google Search[/ame]
 
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And as for the Muslim population explosion, people supporting this thesis have worked on the premise that whilst the 'white indigenous' population remains static, Asian Muslim families tend to have 4 babies on average. And in some places there are Muslim population percentages larger than the others, a fact which for many of us seems a portent of things to come.

There is a strong relationship between women's status in a society and that society's birth rates. As women's status increases, fertility rates drop.

It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the key to Muslim population growth in Europe is also related to the status of Muslim women, and so those measures that encourage assimilation will reduce fertility rates, and those measures that encourage multiculturalism will increase the rates.

Those who champion the wearing of Burkhas (as some sort of women's empowerment, no less :roll:) ,the creation of duel legal systems , and other measures designed to accomidate regressive attitudes towards women will end up creating not only a higher Muslim birth rate, but the very sort of scenario those they view as alarmist now fear.

Assimilation is the ONLY approach that will avoid future strife.
 

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Why are you not complaining about the "giant" Russian orthodox cathedral in london?
Probably it all boils down to the fact that Russian Orthodox Priests don't routinely tell you that boys named Petrov are willing to blow up your grandmother, and they'll get into a brothel-like paradise for doing so.

On the other hand, Mullahs do frequently tell us about the viruses of exploding boys named Mohammad.
 

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Those who champion the wearing of Burkhas (as some sort of women's empowerment, no less :roll:) ,the creation of duel legal systems , and other measures designed to accomidate regressive attitudes towards women will end up creating not only a higher Muslim birth rate, but the very sort of scenario those they view as alarmist now fear.

Who are these individuals or European countries who champion the use of burkas as empowerment of women?

No no.
It is merely us telling the Government to stay out of personal space.

Other than that, i do agree that the key to the birthrate lie in the females. Those newly arrived will bring with them the culture of their home country.
 

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Other than that, i do agree that the key to the birthrate lie in the females. Those newly arrived will bring with them the culture of their home country.
Secularism usually yields less children per female. This is noticeable in Israel also. Orthodox females almost always have more children than secular females.
 

bub

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Secularism usually yields less children per female. This is noticeable in Israel also. Orthodox females almost always have more children than secular females.

isn't it rather about education?
 

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isn't it rather about education?
I suppose it could very well be education in many cases. However, both Orthodox and secular Israeli females are well educated.
 

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Indeed they're looking for work, but unfortunately there isn't any work anymore. In the parts of Brussels where most of the immigrants settle, unemployment reaches 40 or 50%. Unfortunately, most of them don't have any diploma (even the 2nd & 3rd generations rarely have more than a high school degree), they usually can't speak Dutch and English and their French is not always very good...they don't have any chance to get a good job
If after three generations they are not proficient in the language of what is now their native country, it may be safely assumed that they have little interest in being productive members of society.
 

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If after three generations they are not proficient in the language of what is now their native country, it may be safely assumed that they have little interest in being productive members of society.

It's rather the newcomer. 2nd & 3rd generations can speak French but they are usually in the worst schools (the ones that accept the veil and which become ghettos with 80 or 90% of foreigners. There is some violence in these schools so only the worst teachers go there) so they can't speak Dutch or English, which are absolutely necessary if you want to find a job or go to university.
 

bub

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Maybe so but how do you assimilate people?

By making them take local language courses, by making them pass a basic examen about the host country's culture, by making them sign a contract according to which they accept the basic values of the host country (democracy, gender equality...) and by making sure that they don't live in a neighborhoud whose population consists of 50% of newcomers
 

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Maybe so but how do you assimilate people?

By asserting your own cultural values, by creating programs designed to teach immigrants these values, by not capitulating to their demands that you adopt their values, by stressing assimilation instead of multiculturalism, by confronting those within the immigrant community acting as a fifth column, and by not being cowed into trembling submission by their threats.

In short -- to do everything counter to how the U.K. has been doing things.
 

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Who are these individuals or European countries who champion the use of burkas as empowerment of women?

any who stress that it is the woman's CHOICE while completely ignoring the coercive nature involved.

No no.
It is merely us telling the Government to stay out of personal space.


But it's o.k. for Muslim men to do so?

What happens when wearing a Burkha becomes so commonplace in Britain that you run the risk of being attacked for not doing so, yourself? Do you continue to wear western cloths and receive a smiley or worse, do you wear the burkha or what? How much of a choice will it be for you, really?

How much is it for the women currently doing so?
 

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any who stress that it is the woman's CHOICE while completely ignoring the coercive nature involved.

But it's o.k. for Muslim men to do so?

What happens when wearing a Burkha becomes so commonplace in Britain that you run the risk of being attacked for not doing so, yourself? Do you continue to wear western cloths and receive a smiley or worse, do you wear the burkha or what? How much of a choice will it be for you, really?

How much is it for the women currently doing so?

It is a womans choice, yes there will be some women who will be forced to wear it but that does not mean taking it away from the majority.

Muslim men to do what exactly?
Burqa's are not common in Britain. A tiny minority of British Muslims wear it. Hijabs are common not burkas, it exists only within certain cultures and races.
 

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I don't think the mega-mosque has actually been cancelled. And even if it was, that wouldn't stop the people who want it crying out for it.

As far as I know, nothing further has gotten beyond the planning stages after 2007 - unless you can demonstrate otherwise?

"Scumbag inner cities" - why isn't our much vaunted ancient British culture saving the "scumbag inner cities?"

To be clearer, it's only the scumbags to be scorned, not the cities. Otherwise the architects of the once-pristine tower blocks, community centres and parks would have drawn in the smashed bus shelters, gutted cars, litter tips, drug dens, assaulted men, raped women and vandalised houses.

Those places are not sink estates because immigrants live or moved there. Many of these places were hellholes designed by well meaning architects. People got mugged walking down badly lit and robber friendly walkways, high rise council flats left people isolated from each other.
Ever heard the term "brutalist?"

Nothing to do with "Johnny Foreigner" - but our own homegrown architects did that. Now go and look at the Byker Wall in Newcastle for how it should have been done.

culture's wasted on the vermin of society.

Can't work out which parts of society you're being elitist about there, care to elaborate?

-- I think everybody should live under the same laws. There are plenty to safeguard everybody, leastways in principle.

So I ask again, why not complain about Beth Din? We've allowed Jews to have different laws and courts in our land for 100s of years. Why only complain now when Muslims want equal treatment / rights?

the Muslim population explosion

You don't get away with that, proof please? (Or did you not bother with the radio 4 article?)

And in some places there are Muslim population percentages larger than the others, a fact which for many of us seems a portent of things to come.

There's quite a few odds and ends to look at amongst this pile: muslim population explosion - Google Search

Alarmist nonsense. Prove that there is a Muslim explosion and we can go on from there, I'm not opening any links till you provide proper statistics on Muslim population explosions in Western Europe.

-- It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the key to Muslim population growth in Europe --

Can these same rocket scientists prove the same Muslim population growth some talk about?

Maybe so but how do you assimilate people?

I think he's confused them with the Borg, resistance is futile...

Most people would prefer immigrants integrate.
 
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