• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Multiple Texas Farms Shut Down After ‘Almost 100%’ Of Workforce Vanishes Overnight

LostInSeattle said:
Instead we have pain and no gain.

I like this idea.

If I am out walking and ICE demands to see my ID, and I don't have it (I often don't), then what?

What is the big deal about leaving and re-entering? Why is that necessary? No one can explain this to me.

That's fine.
Click to expand...
That would be the pain part resulting from illegally entering the country.
The gain part would be what you said "I like this idea." to, which would be acquired upon legal entry.

I live abroad where all persons age 7 or more are legally required to carry an ID card or valid passport containing a valid visa and show it when asked by police, immigration officers, or military roadblocks. A photocopy or image on my phone usually suffices, though the immigration office requires original documents.
 
LostInSeattle said:
Or, maybe Trump could have been proactive about the labor impacts of his policies, thought through his approach, worked with businesses to develop timelines and pathways so they could adapt with the least economic disruption. But instead he is doing the same thing he did with tariffs, swinging a sledgehammer in a china shop. Because doing the actual hard work of governing cuts into his golf and tweeting time.
Click to expand...


@Mycroft already let me know that Trump's hand was forced on the timing of the tariffs.
iirc, Trump had zero choice but to do tariffs the way he did them because of the Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy™ et al controlled Trump's actions.


Trump was probably under the influence of the VLWC™ for the immigration stuff too.
Trump cannot help it.
 
Individual said:
That would be the pain part resulting from illegally entering the country.
Click to expand...
What exactly is the pain associated with someone overstaying their visa?
Individual said:
The gain part would be what you said "I like this idea." to, which would be acquired upon legal entry.
Click to expand...
But how is this superior to just issuing the documents now to eligible people already here?
Individual said:
I live abroad where all persons age 7 or more are legally required to carry an ID card or valid passport containing a valid visa and show it when asked by police, immigration officers, or military roadblocks. A photocopy or image on my phone usually suffices, though the immigration office requires original documents.
Click to expand...
You're missing the point. How does an ICE officer differentiate between a citizen and an immigrant based on looks alone? Then when the citizen doesn't have an ID on them, what happens? Arrest and detention at some undisclosed ICE facility, without due process, for day or weeks or months? You're going to have MASSIVE lawsuits.
 
Xilnik said:
What a load of malarkey. There's no invasion occurring. Our country is designed around illegal immigrants bolstering our economy. If you want that to change, we need real reform instead of EOs that look tough on the surface.
Click to expand...
^^^^^THIS^^^^^

Problem is that this would require actual work by the GOP, in Congress and the White House, who are uninterested in well-crafted, substantive solutions but instead prefer performative measures to gin up their base. Just ask @VySky and @Mycroft.
 
Individual said:
I live abroad where all persons age 7 or more are legally required to carry an ID card or valid passport containing a valid visa and show it when asked by police, immigration officers, or military roadblocks. A photocopy or image on my phone usually suffices, though the immigration office requires original documents.
Click to expand...
How awful.
 
Brack said:
A lot of folks who voted for Trump last fall didn't know that tariffs and mass deportations would lead to higher prices.
Click to expand...
They didn't know a lot more than that.
 
Mycroft said:
shrug...up to them, but they could have started a long time ago with following the law.
Click to expand...

American consumers want cheap prices because American corporations want to pay cheap wages so that your rich folks can earn unsustainable wealth, but your goverment will not create a reasonable and easy way for these people to work legally.

I don't blame you for shrugging, as it's an impossible scenario for the farmers, which is probably why previous goverments have never done more than offer lip service to the problem. Seems like shrugging is all anyone wants to do down there. Well, other than Trump, who is just going full scorched earth in every direction he can - except in a direction that would actually solve anything for the average American.

But at least he has rich and racist Americans covered. Those folks are happy, it would seem. Shrug.
 
VySky said:
I not that concerned about the economy. We need to take our medicine and it might not be palatable. Consider it 'transitory"
Click to expand...
What shit you post. You've already said that you're fine, so you don't care about the economy for other people. By "we", you mean, "not I, just the rest of you."
 
OlNate said:
American consumers want cheap prices because American corporations want to pay cheap wages so that your rich folks can earn unsustainable wealth, but your goverment will not create a reasonable and easy way for these people to work legally.
Click to expand...
None of that is a justification for breaking the law.
 
Mycroft said:
None of that is a justification for breaking the law.
Click to expand...

No, but it kinda demonstrates that the law should be examined. A law should never create a catch 22 scenario, which is exactly what you have in America around undocumented immigrants.
 
LostInSeattle said:
Let's examine that. We have had extremely low unemployment for years. In order to hire people into jobs that are difficult and physicaly demanding, wages would have to go waylay up. Not a lot of people are going to pick strawberries, bent over in a hot and humid field for hours, for the same wages they could work in a nice, air-conditioned 7-11. Produce prices would skyrocket, and domestic farmers would either go out of business to foreign competition, or their crops would have to be further subsidized by the federal government to avoid food riots. As a society, we would be paying much, much more for the same work. And wages in the rest of the economy would be further driven up by the labor shortage.

OR, we can pay less to migrant workers from Mexico and keep our domestic agriculture in business.
Click to expand...


Note the last paragraph can be done with guest worker programs which would make the people legal to work in the US or by increasing legal immigration levels
 
OlNate said:
No, but it kinda demonstrates that the law should be examined. A law should never create a catch 22 scenario, which is exactly what you have in America around undocumented immigrants.
Click to expand...
shrug...

If it's a catch 22, it's because the producers have made it so.

Instead of deciding to break the law in order to gain profit, they could very well put their efforts into changing the law.
 
LostInSeattle said:
What exactly is the pain associated with someone overstaying their visa?

But how is this superior to just issuing the documents now to eligible people already here?

You're missing the point. How does an ICE officer differentiate between a citizen and an immigrant based on looks alone? Then when the citizen doesn't have an ID on them, what happens? Arrest and detention at some undisclosed ICE facility, without due process, for day or weeks or months? You're going to have MASSIVE lawsuits.
Click to expand...
Overstays would suffer a fine and possibly be required to leave for a defined period or permanently.

It sets a precedent to be followed for those who enter illegally in the future, who will have evidence that they will not be allowed to remain when they enter illegally, and should they ignore the law they will be documented thoroughly with a lengthy time before they would be allowed to attempt legal entry.

That's and issue which could easily be solved by a national ID smart card being required to be possessed by all for quick ID.
 
Mycroft said:
None of that is a justification for breaking the law.
Click to expand...

justification is sorta beside the point that the system is set up in such a way to reward law breakers

imho, that's a symptom of bad design

laws should be responsive to the needs of the electorate instead of encouraging criminal behavior
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Note the last paragraph can be done with guest worker programs which would make the people legal to work in the US or by increasing legal immigration levels
Click to expand...
Absolutely. So why aren't we focused on that instead suspending due process, creating a climate of fear and repression, and threatening state and local governments?
 
W_Heisenberg said:

n a stunningly swift overnight change, some Texas farm operations had to shut down after losing virtually all of their workforce, an exodus triggered by the increase in immigration raids and increased enforcement. The ripple effects of these raids are the gift that keeps on giving and will be felt nationwide: unpicked crops are now left unharvested, livestock were left untended, and rural economies are on edge.

This story isn’t just a tale of woe for Texan farms; it's a warning for American agribusiness, food prices, and the communities that keep food on our plates. So, let's examine what effect these raids have on agriculture, livestock, workers, and the American public.

--

Expect higher prices in grocery stores all over the country...
Click to expand...


Aha!


Is this what economists mean by "cause and effect"?
 
Simon W. Moon said:
justification is sorta beside the point that the system is set up in such a way to reward law breakers

imho, that's a symptom of bad design

laws should be responsive to the needs of the electorate instead of encouraging criminal behavior
Click to expand...
shrug...

As I keep saying...the farmers should have seen this coming...and done something about it...instead of pissing and moaning now.
 
NolanVoyd said:
So you live among sheep.

Sucks!

THat kind of thing goes against everything America stands for.
Click to expand...
I've never been more free.

Yes, why resolve issues when you can perpetually complain about them?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom