Mueller Knowingly Lied to Us (2 Viewers)

[Condor060]

How did you miss Thorgasm's post 13. It links to a video where Rod Rosenstein makes that differentiation. Which is: "A judge appointed Ken Star the independent counsel, and as such the independent counsel is NOT accountable to the DOJ. I appointed the special council which made him accountable to DOJ rules and Regulations."

I agree with the differences. I was only concerned with the common denominator which either counsel could make criminal recommendations to the AG office.

EXCEPT the DOJ's position that a sitting President can NOT be indicted.

Agreed. Making a criminal referral to the AG's office for Congress is the job of the special counsel. Convening a grand jury and receiving a criminal indictment is against the OLC opinion to indict a sitting president.

 

[Irwin Corey]

Mueller wasn't charged with indicting or charging a sitting president. Barr confirmed (as most people already knew)i Muellers job was to nvestigate and recommend criminal activities found to the AG.

Why would you spend 30 million and 2 years on a process that can't deliver anything? How could you even consider that?

(©ffice of tqe g}cput J\tiortte}:J ®eneral l!lu.sl1ington, .<!!. 20530
ORDER NO. 3915-2017 APPOINTMENT OF SPECIAL COUNSEL TO INVESTIGATE RUSSIAN INTERFERENCE WITH THE 2016 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION AND RELATED MATTERS

By virtue of the authority vested in me as Acting Attorney General, including 28 U.S.C. §§ 509, 510, and 515, in order to discharge my responsibility to provide supervision and management of the Department of Justice, and to ensure a full and thorough investigation of the Russian government's efforts to interfere in the 2016 presidential election, I hereby order as follows: (a) Robert S. Mueller III is appointed to serve as Special Counsel for the United States Department of Justice. (b) The Special Counsel is authorized to conduct the investigation confirmed by then-FBI Director James B. Corney in testimony before the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence on March 20, 2017, including:

(i) any links and/or coordination bet ween the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump; and

(ii) any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation; and

(iii) any other matters within the scope of 28 C.F.R. § 600.4(a). (c) If the Special Counsel believes it is necessary and appropriate, the Special Counsel is authorized to prosecute federal crimes arising from the investigation of these matters.

(d) Sections 600.4 through 600. l 0 of Title 28 of the Code of Federal Regulations are applicable to the Special Counsel

signed Rod Rosenstein 5/17/19

I don't see anywhere in Rosenstein's directive that: Muellers job was to investigate AND recommend criminal activities found to the AG.


Like it or NOT; Mueller was actually protecting tRump from a violation of his right to due process.<-- period The rule of law and individual Constitutional rights are foremost to Mueller; under NO circumstances was he going to be party to their compromise.

 

[Condor060]

I don't see anywhere in Rosenstein's directive that: Muellers job was to investigate AND recommend criminal activities found to the AG.

It also doesn't say to make a statement to exonerate Trump either yet his report states no American or Trump campaign associate collude or conspired to collude with Russia.

You don't assemble a special counsel at a cost of millions to make no assertions either way. What would be the point.

Barr has already weighed in on this yesterday stating Mueller could have made criminal recommendations meaning Mueller lied when he stated the OLC precluded him from reporting any crimes so that point is now moot.

Barr says Mueller 'could’ve reached a decision' on obstruction - POLITICO

 

[RaleBulgarian]

Its not that I disagree with your statement. The problem exist where no criminal referrals were made by Mueller as no evidence exist to support them. Instead of just stating those facts, Mueller tried to convince everyone he couldn't make a criminal referral because of the OLC. This isn't a true statment and has already been confirmed by Barr. All this did was gin up all these individuals who just live to take down Trump and this will now go on for months.

Forget about Trump or the existence of criminal or non criminal activities for a second. What is the result of Mueller making this BS statement? Millions will be spent, nothing in Nadlers committee is going to addresses our border emergencies, and we will have more separation between the parties. Thats the big problem.

No evidence exists?!? Where the **** did you get that ridiculous idea from?

 

[Irwin Corey]

It also doesn't say to make a statement to exonerate Trump either yet his report states no American or Trump campaign associate collude or conspired to collude with Russia.

You don't assemble a special counsel at a cost of millions to make no assertions either way. What would be the point.

"I", IF it were I assembling a special council "I" would want him to do his best to serve the AmeriCAN people without infringing on anyone's rights and within the Constitution; NO MATTER THE COST. The Point being to find the best possible truth within the rule of law and Constitution of The Untied States. Which Mueller did with integrity and Honor.

Barr has already weighed in on this yesterday

AFTER the Mueller report and statement , a day late and a dollar short. IMHO

Again: Like it or NOT; Mueller was actually protecting tRump from a violation of his right to due process.<-- period

 

[Condor060]

No evidence exists?!? Where the **** did you get that ridiculous idea from?

In the legal world, no evidence exist to support a criminal referral. Taking the words out of the sentence (or out of context) doesn't have the same meaning. You might have evidence I shot your dog because he was shot with a 45 but it doesn't mean I did it. We can parse words all day but staying on topic.
1. Mueller said he couldn't recommend a criminal charge against Trump because of the OLC opinion.
2. We now know Mueller lied and it is his responsibility to report all criminal activities to the AGs office
3. Barr reinforced that statement yesterday concluding Mueller could have recommended criminal charges
4. Mueller didn't recommened any criminal charges to the AGs office
5. Barr reported to Congress that no collusion or obstruction exist.

Pretty much case closed

 

[Condor060]

"I", IF it were I assembling a special council "I" would want him to do his best to serve the AmeriCAN people without infringing on anyone's rights and within the Constitution; NO MATTER THE COST. The Point being to find the best possible truth within the rule of law and Constitution of The Untied States.

How is that different than what the DOJ request is.

AFTER the Mueller report and statement , a day late and a dollar short. IMHO

Again: Like it or NOT; Mueller was actually protecting tRump from a violation of his right to due process.<-- period

Mueller was now protecting Trump? How sweet. After his 14 member Democrat counsel members and the aggressive tactics he chose to attack anyone around Trump as a ploy to get Trump, you are going to have to sell that BS somewhere else.

 

[Irwin Corey]

In the legal world, no evidence exist to support a criminal referral.

1. Mueller said he couldn't recommend a criminal charge against Trump because of the OLC opinion. (Because of due process concerns.)
2. We now know Mueller lied and it is his responsibility to report all criminal activities to the AGs office ("WE" know nothing of the kind and Mueller most certainly did NOT lie at any time EVER.)
3. Barr reinforced that statement yesterday concluding Mueller could have recommended criminal charges (A Day Late, and a Dollar Short)
4. Mueller didn't recommened any criminal charges to the AGs office (He did report much suspicious and criminal activity.)
5. Barr reported to Congress that no collusion or obstruction exist. (Which Mueller takes exception to.)

Pretty much case closed referred to Congress[/QUOTE]

 

[Irwin Corey]

How is that different than what the DOJ request is.

What DOJ request, Barr said (a day late and a dollar short) what Mueller could have done, he didn't request ANYTHING

Mueller was now protecting Trump?

AbsaByGodLutely!

How sweet. After his 14 member Democrat counsel members and the aggressive tactics he chose to attack anyone around Trump as a ploy to get Trump to bring to justice people that broke our laws

you are going to have to sell that BS somewhere else.

I'm not selling anything, certainly not BS. Just lining you out on how the truth compares to your OP nonsense.

 

[Condor060]

1. Mueller said he couldn't recommend a criminal charge against Trump because of the OLC opinion. (Because of due process concerns.)
2. We now know Mueller lied and it is his responsibility to report all criminal activities to the AGs office ("WE" know nothing of the kind and Mueller most certainly did NOT lie at any time EVER.)
3. Barr reinforced that statement yesterday concluding Mueller could have recommended criminal charges (A Day Late, and a Dollar Short)
4. Mueller didn't recommened any criminal charges to the AGs office (He did report much suspicious and criminal activity.)
5. Barr reported to Congress that no collusion or obstruction exist. (Which Mueller takes exception to.)

Pretty much case closed referred to Congress

[/QUOTE]

So you think when Barr corrects Mueller about his false claim of not being able to report crimes, its a day late and a dollar short. What does that mean? You can't enforce the law after the fact? Doesn't make any sense.

If you don't know the difference between convening a grand jury to receive a criminal indictment and a special counsel making a criminal referral I really can't help you any further. Barr already cleared this up so if you think you have more experience than Barr does with the DOJ please enlighten me, otherwise, this part of the conversation has already been determined.

As far as any further criminal charges or indictments from the DOJ, this case is closed. If Congress wants to pick up the ball where 2 years, 500 witnesses, millions of documents, 1000 subpoenas, and thousands of hours of testimony has already been burned through WITH NO CRIMINAL REFERRALS OR CHARGES from the Department of Justice or the Attorney General and as far as they are concerned, this case is closed, then help yourself.

 

[Winston]

Trump did it.

 

[Condor060]

What DOJ request, Barr said (a day late and a dollar short) what Mueller could have done, he didn't request ANYTHING



AbsaByGodLutely!





I'm not selling anything, certainly not BS. Just lining you out on how the truth compares to your OP nonsense.

You obviously don't really care about what the Attorney General or the DOJ has to say. You just want your way. Ok, Only you could possibly know the truth and no one in the AG's office has a clue. Only your opinion could be right.

Hows that. Feel better.

 

[iguanaman]

Mueller wasn't charged with indicting or charging a sitting president. Barr confirmed (as most people already knew) Muellers job was to investigate and recommend criminal activities found to the AG.

Why would you spend 30 million and 2 years on a process that can't deliver anything? How could you even consider that?

The "process" delivered 31 indictments, multiple guilty pleas and a roadmap for Congress to impeach the President for obstruction......and it paid for itself with Manaforts forfeiture of $40 million. And please shut up about Barr, he is a national disgrace. What he says is worthless drivel.

 

[Cougarbear]

How about you enlighten us and how these differences would keep Mueller from making criminal recommendations. Not sure how you will come up with that since Barr just make it pretty clear.
William Barr: Robert Mueller 'could've reached a decision' on obstruction

Oh! Did you just hear his liberal head split open with a massive headache! Do they ever pay attention? No. Here is another thing. You mentioned Mueller's report was full of fuzzy words like "What ifs." There are 2 words he left out completely, "Probable Cause." Nowhere in his report, 440 pages, does he once mention there was Probable Cause to indict Trump. Even if he was correct that a sitting president cannot be indicted for a crime, there first needs to be Probable Cause. There was none! Not only that, there was no Probable Cause for crimes of obstructing Mueller's investigation from any of the 10 Trump associates either. If Trump was guilty of a crime, the 10 in question would also have to be charged with a crime based on Probable Cause.

 

[Irwin Corey]

So you think when Barr corrects Mueller about his false claim of not being able to report crimes, its a day late and a dollar short. What does that mean? You can't enforce the law after the fact? Doesn't make any sense.

Barr said that because it makes a nice sound byte, even though it's meaningless at this point. Mueller did not claim he couldn't report crimes, in fact he reported many crimes. "Mueller said he didn't pursue such a finding because the Justice Department has a regulation barring the indictment of a sitting president and "the Constitution requires a process other than the criminal justice system to formally accuse a sitting president of wrongdoing"

If you don't know the difference between convening a grand jury to receive a criminal indictment and a special counsel making a criminal referral I really can't help you any further.

I'm not asking for, nor do I need your help, and it appears you are so prejudiced that you are beyond it.

Barr already cleared this up

The only thing that can be said to be cleared up by Barr is Barr's head up tRumps ass.

As far as any further criminal charges or indictments from the DOJ, this case is closed.

Bingo.

If Congress wants to pick up the ball where 2 years, 500 witnesses, millions of documents, 1000 subpoenas, and thousands of hours of testimony has already been burned through WITH NO CRIMINAL REFERRALS OR CHARGES from the Department of Justice or the Attorney General and as far as they are concerned, this case is closed

"This case is closed", must make you feel warm and fuzzy to say that; you should start a thread with that as the topic.

 

[iguanaman]

How is that different than what the DOJ request is.




Mueller was now protecting Trump? How sweet. After his 14 member Democrat counsel members and the aggressive tactics he chose to attack anyone around Trump as a ploy to get Trump, you are going to have to sell that BS somewhere else.

Never the less Mueller stated that indicting or even accusing a President of a crime is un-constitutional. Read the report.

 

[Irwin Corey]

You obviously don't really care about what the Attorney General or the DOJ has to say. You just want your way. Ok, Only you could possibly know the truth and no one in the AG's office has a clue. Only your opinion could be right.

Hows that. Feel better.

Well, all I can say to that is when you start making **** up … I think you've lost the argument … palie.

But! Getting back on topic the only lie is your OP, which you haven't been able to argue your way out of.<--period!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bye now!!! :2wave:

 

[Cougarbear]

Mueller lied according to your expert legal opinion? OK

I highlighted in red what is clearly false about your statement. I guess you're the one lying. It is NOT TRUE that Mueller couldn't find any criminal charges to recommend. That is contradicted by your next sentence where you admit Mueller says his hands were tied by OLC opinion. You can't even keep your own story straight.

Then why did Mueller end his investigation? Why not just wait until Trump loses in 2020 and then indict him. See, the one thing he left out of his report was that he found Probable Cause, something he was demanding to find. I think what happened was when Mueller knew he wasn't going to get Trump to sit for an interview so that Mueller could catch him in a lie to him or the grand jury, he decided to write a report implementing Trump in something but nothing with Probable Cause. You note that Probable Cause was nowhere to be found in his report. So, what he has is suspicion written into his report so that the Democrats continue to hound Trump and his family and administration.

 

[Cougarbear]

Well when you start making **** up … I think you've lost the argument … palie.

He's being sarcastic because you simply only want to look at everything through pink goggles.

 

[Irwin Corey]

He's being sarcastic because you simply only want to look at everything through pink goggles.

Nope, my lenses are Clear, his/yours are coated tRump **** brown.

 

[Condor060]

The "process" delivered 31 indictments, multiple guilty pleas and a roadmap for Congress to impeach the President for obstruction......and it paid for itself with Manaforts forfeiture of $40 million. And please shut up about Barr, he is a national disgrace. What he says is worthless drivel.

And not one single count of ANYONE colluding with Russia. Doesn't really matter if you like Barr or not. He's the Attorney General and you're not. I guess you are just going to have to learn to live with the defeat.

 

[ocean515]

Well, all I can say to that is when you start making **** up … I think you've lost the argument … palie.

But! Getting back on topic the only lie is your OP, which you haven't been able to argue your way out of.<--period!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bye now!!! :2wave:

Could an Independent Counsel or Special Prosecutor have been appointed to do this investigation, instead of a Special Counsel?

 

[Irwin Corey]

Could an Independent Counsel or Special Prosecutor have been appointed to do this investigation, instead of a Special Counsel?

Apparently Rosenstein didn't see it that way.

 

[Condor060]

Well, all I can say to that is when you start making **** up … I think you've lost the argument … palie.

But! Getting back on topic the only lie is your OP, which you haven't been able to argue your way out of.<--period!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bye now!!! :2wave:

Yeah, right, For some reason I didn't see any links supporting anything you posted so I when you can find something to refute the documents, I give it a read. Other than that, blind ideas about how much more you know than the Attorney General really don't count for much. I know you are used to having your way but unfortunately, you're gonna need a bit more than orange man bad to get any mileage around here.

 

[Condor060]

Could an Independent Counsel or Special Prosecutor have been appointed to do this investigation, instead of a Special Counsel?

Sure they could but the investigation would be out of the control of the DOJ and they wouldn't be able to assign 14 Democrats to investigate.