Min Wage: Where did 15/hr come from?

[Absentglare]

Why are we subsidizing people with zero ambition? There are millions of jobs that don't require a college degree, that make much more. If you're an adult and have spent a lifetime at "minimum wage," you're a loser. Plain and simple.


Bending over backwards to losers is even worse. Businesses employ people. Losers just take take take.


Exactly. There are only three types of people who make minimum wage. 1) Teenagers 2) College students 3) Losers. Teenagers do not need to make an exorbitant amount of money. They live at home and their parents subsidize them. College students either live at home, or in a dorm. See #1. Losers need motivation. Minimum wage should be motivation enough, but if it isn't...enjoy loserdom.

What makes you think they have zero ambition ? Maybe they have zero parents, zero inherited wealth, and cannot afford to go to college or tradeschool. Maybe they need to work more than 40 hours a week just to survive.

Prejudice against people who are in need does no one any good. Many poor people are good people who are simply not as fortunate for whatever reason.

 

[Deuce]

If you want a living wage, then get a living wage job. Not every job in the country has to be or should be a living wage job. That's the fact that those who think that every job should pay a living wage just don't get.

You're right. We don't.

If a job doesn't pay a "living wage," why does it exist in the first place? Why should a person working full time not be able to feed and house themselves? Exactly what sort of life do you envision a person with a non-living wage to live? Because you know what happens to that person?

The rest of us pick up the slack with welfare, food stamps, medicaid, etc.

 

[Velvet Elvis]

Maybe they have zero parents

Boo hoo. So not having parents makes kids throw in the towel? Buck up buttercup, and get an education.

zero inherited wealth

Oh good god...there's that "inherited wealth" crap. Do you know what a miniscule percentage of people inherit anything, much less a large amount of money? ...of course you don't.

cannot afford to go to college or tradeschool.

That's what scholarships, grants and loans are for.

Maybe they need to work more than 40 hours a week just to survive.

Or maybe they need to be more proactive and find more gainful employment. Hell, a call center job at a major corporation pays three times minimum wage, and it's considered an "entry-level" job. Basically, you just need a heartbeat and a way to get to work. A freakin' janitor at a major corporation makes twice minimum wage. Seriously...if you're not in school, and are a grown-up, making minimum wage is shameful.

Prejudice against people who are in need does no one any good.

Blind enabling of unambitious people doesn't do any good either.

 

[What if...?]

If you want a living wage, then get a living wage job. Not every job in the country has to be or should be a living wage job. That's the fact that those who think that every job should pay a living wage just don't get.

So what percentage of jobs are no longer considered worthy of a living wage?

And what was that percentage 40 years ago when the Great Divergence began?

That would be a lot more useful than think-tank generated talking points.

 

[What if...?]

It puts more people on public assistance, not less. Higher MW = fewer jobs. Fewer jobs = more people on public assistance. I know I'm giving you a rational, logical argument that isn't all emotional and stuff, so now you;'re going to accuse me of not caring about all the poor people in the world and only caring about the profits of big corps. C'mon, AG, you can do it, you're so well practiced that it shouldn't even require thought to type it all out again.

I thought that was not true, that higher minimum wage leads to less jobs.

 

[What if...?]

there is this thing called "living wage" what that is no one can say. they just give some absurd number.
however people think that 15 dollar minimum wage will get people out of poverty.

if history has shown it not only has not gotten them out of poverty but has actually hurt them in the long run.
price increases lack of jobs and job opportunities pretty much wiped out the gains.

the only way to make a real wage is to be able to do something that has skill.

That a machine or desperate foreigner can't do.

Y'all keep talking like there are jobs just sitting empty for millions of people if they would just get an advanced degree already.

There aren't. Those days are gone and not coming back.

Stop pretending they are.

 

[KevinKohler]

Fifteen dollars an hour wouldn't be close to a living wage in some areas of the country. When you start adding in a kid or two into the equation the idea fifteen dollars an hour is a living wage is laughable.

15 dollars an hour pretty good pay even here in CT, where everything costs more than anywhere else in the country.

 

[KevinKohler]

Yes, if you read the link, they explain that a single parent with two children could need over $44/hr.

Why would a single parent need to make over 80k per year?

 

[countryboy]

That a machine or desperate foreigner can't do.

Y'all keep talking like there are jobs just sitting empty for millions of people if they would just get an advanced degree already.

There aren't. Those days are gone and not coming back.

Stop pretending they are.

Do you realize how difficult it is to find good help? Despite Unemployment, Many Jobs Hard to Fill | Monster.com

 

[KevinKohler]

Seriously, where are some of these numbers coming from? 44 dollars an hour for a single parent? That would put that person at DOUBLE the median income for the US.


You telling me that e majority of americans live bellow the poverty line, now?

 

[countryboy]

Why would a single parent need to make over 80k per year?

Because, they must have all the amenities that rich folk have, or it's not fair.

 

[Absentglare]

Boo hoo. So not having parents makes kids throw in the towel? Buck up buttercup, and get an education.

Oh good god...there's that "inherited wealth" crap. Do you know what a miniscule percentage of people inherit anything, much less a large amount of money? ...of course you don't.

That's what scholarships, grants and loans are for.

Or maybe they need to be more proactive and find more gainful employment. Hell, a call center job at a major corporation pays three times minimum wage, and it's considered an "entry-level" job. Basically, you just need a heartbeat and a way to get to work. A freakin' janitor at a major corporation makes twice minimum wage. Seriously...if you're not in school, and are a grown-up, making minimum wage is shameful.

Blind enabling of unambitious people doesn't do any good either.

Uhh... Insulting orphans ...?

Wealth is not just inherited directly, money is often spent on behalf of children without necessarily being bequeathed as cash.

Scholarships, grants, and loans to pay for tuition, housing, food, and transportation costs is a recipe for burying the next generation in debt.

If you think it's so easy to find one of these jobs, why don't you go verbally insult the people who work those minimum wage jobs ? I'm sure they'd love to hear your vitriolic diatribe.

 

[Absentglare]

Why would a single parent need to make over 80k per year?

The link made the claim. The link explains its reasoning.

 

[Absentglare]

Seriously, where are some of these numbers coming from? 44 dollars an hour for a single parent? That would put that person at DOUBLE the median income for the US.


You telling me that e majority of americans live bellow the poverty line, now?

For a single parent with TWO children who receives no assistance, yes.

 

[faithful_servant]

You're right. We don't.

If a job doesn't pay a "living wage," why does it exist in the first place? Why should a person working full time not be able to feed and house themselves? Exactly what sort of life do you envision a person with a non-living wage to live? Because you know what happens to that person?

The rest of us pick up the slack with welfare, food stamps, medicaid, etc.

What sort of life?? Living at home with mom and dad, going to high school, learning to work for money... That's the sort of life I envision MW workers to be living.

 

[vash1012]

How about not starting a family until you are mature enough to pay for it? 90% of these idiots supporting $15.00 minimum wage never ran a business and all the BS that comes with it.

Maturity doesn't make money for you, buddy. There's not a lot of jobs in maturity.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

there really isn't one. it is hard to justify paying someone 15 an hour with no education or job skills.



because it is cheaper than them being on full government assistance which is what will happen when they are fired or laid off.

the law requires it is actually a pretty easy justification.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm very in favor of small business. I think we should dramatically slash the nominal corporate income tax rate or abolish it altogether. The complicated structures favor big businesses who can hire skilled accounting teams to exploit every available tax incentive, while a small business is likely to overpay.

I also think we should unburden employers from having to provide healthcare. That makes American labor more expensive.

Fix these things and either (1) restore collective bargaining strength by abolishing exclusive representation rights for unions in right to work states/outlawing right to work laws or (2) raise the minimum wage. I think (2) is the shorter path but both have merits. Fact is, the reason so many people are so underpaid is because they've been competing so fiercely in their race to the bottom, and we need some balance in the labor market.

That's what I fault Barack Obama for, when Ried, Obama and Pelosi had control of the government they should've passed federal preemption of the NRLA thus outlawed "right to work laws"

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Uhh... Insulting orphans ...?

Wealth is not just inherited directly, money is often spent on behalf of children without necessarily being bequeathed as cash.

Scholarships, grants, and loans to pay for tuition, housing, food, and transportation costs is a recipe for burying the next generation in debt.

If you think it's so easy to find one of these jobs, why don't you go verbally insult the people who work those minimum wage jobs ? I'm sure they'd love to hear your vitriolic diatribe.

This is where I'll disagree, the problem is they will not listen to you if you try to suggest ideas to improve their income. I have talked to about a dozen people working for minimum wage over the last year, complaining the system was rigged against them and they'll never make the other they need to make. I make 20 an hour and it took me little actual effort to get here, but it does take some effort.

So i'll suggest to these people "get your CDL, you'll imediately double your income and there's no way you can't get hired with the CDL market the way it is.

none of them have done it. none. I'll get various excuses from "Well I'll have to give up weed" (uhhh yeah, you will) to "well it's too expensive" (cost is 5000 dollars and loans are easily avaiable, you'll pay off the loan in a year) to "well it must be hard to drive trucks (uhhh that's why you get training) "

point is, most of these people do not want to up their incomes, or if they do, they just want it handed to them with as little actual work as possible required on their part.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Answer: $15 was picked because it was slightly less unreasonable than $20.



I heard this on the internet today but I cant remember where.

 

[iguanaman]

If you want a living wage, then get a living wage job. Not every job in the country has to be or should be a living wage job. That's the fact that those who think that every job should pay a living wage just don't get.

But with 40% of the jobs below $15 it is impossible for many to find a "living wage job". It's not just teenagers looking for a few extra bucks. Perhaps too many jobs are undervalued by years of high unemployment and and a job market that favors employers? Some prodding would not hurt one bit.

 

[RetiredUSN]

Maturity doesn't make money for you, buddy. There's not a lot of jobs in maturity.

The right life decisions such as putting aside money, settling into a career, business, and spending wisely, are all part of maturity. Young people today think it's ok to pump out children because they know the state and fed will be there to help raise their offspring for them.

 

[RetiredUSN]

Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm very in favor of small business. I think we should dramatically slash the nominal corporate income tax rate or abolish it altogether. The complicated structures favor big businesses who can hire skilled accounting teams to exploit every available tax incentive, while a small business is likely to overpay.

I also think we should unburden employers from having to provide healthcare. That makes American labor more expensive.

Fix these things and either (1) restore collective bargaining strength by abolishing exclusive representation rights for unions in right to work states/outlawing right to work laws or (2) raise the minimum wage. I think (2) is the shorter path but both have merits. Fact is, the reason so many people are so underpaid is because they've been competing so fiercely in their race to the bottom, and we need some balance in the labor market.

As I have said in a couple other posts, if we could find a way to provide health care without taxing the bejesus out of society, I'm all for it. That would take a large burden off of small businesses and allow them to grow.

 

[Mithrae]

Except all it will do is drive up prices and people making the new minimum wage won't be able to afford things any more than they can now. And the people currently making more than $15 an hour, who won't get raises because the minimum wage goes up, will be even less able to compete. It will be an even bigger drain on welfare. Good plan.

Absentglare has already hinted at this, but it bears repeating: If the expense of wages were 30% of companies' revenue across the board, a 100% wage increase across the board would require only a ~30% increases in prices to cover. (Actually a bit more, because wholesalers' price increases would be further passed on to retailers etc.; but still definitely less than 60% for an end product.) That would mean a lot more disposable income in consumers' pockets, which most likely would mean more spending and in turn more business profits and economic growth.

Real life isn't quite so simple of course, but incremental MW increases (to ensure that at least the floor is actually raised across the board), are not quite the doom and gloom economic scenarios that some folk like to portray. If it could be done internationally (relative to each country's previous standards) that'd be so much the better. This is one of the examples in which dogmatic individualism or anti-statism work against everyone's best interests; a race to the bottom either between workers and employers in a country, or between countries of the world. A falling tide which lowers all boats, as it were.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

Sure there is.

Even in Arkansas, people need to be paid more than $14/hr to make a "living wage." 40% of working Americans are paid less than $15/hr.

"In this report, living wages are calculated on the basis of family budgets for several household types. Family budgets include basic necessities, such as food, housing, utilities, transportation, health care, child care, clothing and other personal items, savings, and state and federal taxes. This assumes full-time work on a year- round basis."

http://allianceforajustsociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Pay-Up-Revised-FINAL.pdf

Ugh that thing is horrifically done.
They don't add in transfer payments from negative taxes and make assumptions about individual family needs.

It also doesn't address employment where one has company sponsored insurance and less than the "living wage."