Milwaukee County Judge Dugan indicted, grand jury meets Tuesday (2 Viewers)

[TheDoctorWasIn]

What about this specific case was fascist?

I don't believe that you are asking that question in good faith, because you're not that stupid.

 

[Josie]

I don't believe that you are asking that question in good faith, because you're not that stupid.

I would like to hear your answer.

 

[multivita-man]

Why is arresting illegal immigrants "gestapo effort" under Trump, but not under Biden or Obama?

You're missing the point. The mere arresting of illegal immigrants isn't gestapo. Denying them due process, shipping them off to be held in foreign detention centers without hearings based on a mere suspicion that their tattoos mean some sort of gang affiliation, invoking powers under 200+ year-old laws that don't actually exist....that's gestapo.

 

[TheDoctorWasIn]

No, not "everything I don't like."

Just you guys.

I understand it's hard to wrap your head around the fact that you're the bad guys, but it's ok. You'll figure that out soon enough.

I'm sure you have some more memes to comfort you in the meantime.

 

[Felis Leo]

In your opinion. Nobody is above the law, and the system fails when those entrusted with its enforcement and protection are dishonest.

How right that statement is. Which is why no decent person with more than two working brain cells to rub together could or should honestly trust Donald Trump or his coterie him to enforce the law. Wouldn’t you agree, nota been?

 

[j brown's body]

Was it "gestapo efforts" under Obama and Biden?

I don't think they approved of the feds going into courthouses or churches to make arrests of undocumented immigrants.

I think their focus was on arresting people less inclined to visit such places.

 

[TheDoctorWasIn]

I would like to hear your answer.

Well, tough. I don't waste my time engaging with bad faith actors.

I'm not trying to convince you of anything, you're not worth the effort.

 

[Josie]

You're missing the point. The mere arresting of illegal immigrants isn't gestapo.

Agreed. Was the arrest of the immigrant in this specific story a "gestapo" move?

Denying them due process, shipping them off to be held in foreign detention centers without hearings based on a mere suspicion that their tattoos mean some sort of gang affiliation, invoking powers under 200+ year-old laws that don't actually exist....that's gestapo.

Agreed.

 

[Josie]

Well, tough. I don't waste my time engaging with bad faith actors.

I'm not trying to convince you of anything, you're not worth the effort.

You don't want to debate the topic that you're discussing on a debate forum? Mmmmmkay.

 

[TheDoctorWasIn]

Agreed. Was the arrest of the immigrant in this specific story a "gestapo" move?

No, the arrest of the Judge was.

 

[multivita-man]

No “bipartisan horse shit” to it.

Just legal and illegal.

No, you really need to think beyond just that.

The Courts have already rebuked their deportations without due process. Unfortunately, courts haven't figured out what to do when the Executive Branch refuses to cooperate with federal judicial rulings.

We have a White House that is openly discussing suspending habeas corpus for people suspected of being illegal immigrants.

They are weaponizing the law.

People talk about resistance to fascism, which is very much the moment we're living in. People talk of resistance, well she resisted, in a way that is harmless, and, I would submit, legal. Again, had the feds produced criminal/judicial warrants, we're probably not having this discussion.

 

[Josie]

No, the arrest of the Judge was.

Why?

 

[TheDoctorWasIn]

You don't want to debate the topic that you're discussing on a debate forum? Mmmmmkay.

Nope.

I am under no delusions that I can convince MAGAs to stop being fascists.

 

[multivita-man]

Agreed. Was the arrest of the immigrant in this specific story a "gestapo" move?



Agreed.

Here's the thing: we're in agreement that illegal immigration isn't something that's inevitable and that we're powerless to do something about. I've never believed that shit. I've probably gone against the grain with my own type in voicing that. I am against illegal immigration, not only because it flaunts US law but because illegal immigrants themselves get abused, often horrifically.

I've pushed back against the right wing on illegal immigration crackdowns over the years on basically two grounds:

1) They are entitled to due process, which is what this conversation is partially about.

2) I am so sick of basically powerless people being blamed for the problems that are overwhelmingly caused by the heads of corporations and otherwise wealthy people. Illegal immigrants didn't vote for our disastrous wars - they couldn't vote. They didn't cause the Great Recession - that was Wall Street and predatory lending. They didn't cause the polarization in this country. None of that entitles them to overstay their visas, but FFS, let's just stop blaming them for our problems. The problem is us.

 

[j brown's body]

Why?

"Normally, in cases like this that don’t involve violence or risk to the community, or where there’s some indication that a defendant might flee, a case goes to the next grand jury. If an indictment is issued, the defendant receives a notice to appear in court for arraignment. Arrests like this one are unusual. Here, it appears to be an effort to sensationalize the case in a way that is unnecessary and seems designed to intimidate this judge and other judges.

Why arrest her at the courthouse? Again, this is just an effort to sensationalize the case and intimidate other judges. She could have been safely arrested at her home. There is absolutely no doubt that if they had advised her of the situation, she would have turned herself in to be booked. In essence, this is the biggest, most outrageous perp walk of all time, complete with a tweet from the Director of the FBI."

Link

 

[Josie]

Nope.

I am under no delusions that I can convince MAGAs to stop being fascists.

Never voted for Trump, never wanted Trump, personally dislike Trump so … not MAGA.

Why was arresting this judge a “gestapo” move?

 

[Josie]

Here's the thing: we're in agreement that illegal immigration isn't something that's inevitable and that we're powerless to do something about. I've never believed that shit. I've probably gone against the grain with my own type in voicing that. I am against illegal immigration, not only because it flaunts US law but because illegal immigrants themselves get abused, often horrifically.

I've pushed back against the right wing on illegal immigration crackdowns over the years on basically two grounds:

1) They are entitled to due process, which is what this conversation is partially about.

2) I am so sick of basically powerless people being blamed for the problems that are overwhelmingly caused by the heads of corporations and otherwise wealthy people. Illegal immigrants didn't vote for our disastrous wars - they couldn't vote. They didn't cause the Great Recession - that was Wall Street and predatory lending. They didn't cause the polarization in this country. None of that entitles them to overstay their visas, but FFS, let's just stop blaming them for our problems. The problem is us.

So was the arrest of this immigrant a “gestapo” move?

 

[TheDoctorWasIn]

Never voted for Trump, never wanted Trump, personally dislike Trump so … not MAGA.

Why was arresting this judge a “gestapo” move?

Ok, I'll tell you what - if you want me to respond to your question in good faith, then I'll need you to make a showing of good faith as well.

Guess.

Think about it, and tell me your guess as to why I think having federal law enforcement arrest a State Judge for making them look foolish is a fascist move. It shouldn't be that hard to figure out.

 

[Absentglare]

We're not talking about intimidating judges to attack on Jewish people that are Muslims were expecting that they don't help illegal aliens evade immigration enforcement.

No one's being scapegoated we're not talking about an out group.

The group of undocumented immigrants are absolutely being scapegoated. Trump full-throated blames them for all kinds of things. His poor, gullible supporters are too scared chickenshit to see how they’re being completely manipulated.

 

[Absentglare]

I'm not for deporting people without due process so don't lump me into a generalization box.

What about this specific case was fascist?

You answered your own question, review the bold.

 

[multivita-man]

So was the arrest of this immigrant a “gestapo” move?

As @TheDoctorWasIn said, the arrest of the immigrant was not a gestapo move; the arrest of the judge, most certainly was.

 

[Josie]

Ok, I'll tell you what - if you want me to respond to your question in good faith, then I'll need you to make a showing of good faith as well.

Guess.

Think about it, and tell me your guess as to why I think having federal law enforcement arrest a State Judge for making them look foolish is a fascist move. It shouldn't be that hard to figure out.

I'm not interested in playing games. Would you like to debate the topic we're discussing or not?

 

[Josie]

As @TheDoctorWasIn said, the arrest of the immigrant was not a gestapo move; the arrest of the judge, most certainly was.

Why?

 

[j brown's body]

Why?

Post #116

 

[Absentglare]

Why?

In a democratic republic, a spectrum of views are represented in government. They can push against each other in a civil manner, holding one another accountable and advocating for the various views they represent.

In a fascism, they crack down on any pushback, on every and any check on their power. They do things like punish people without due process. They do things like arrest judges and political opponents. They scapegoat target groups to create an unbreakable emotional bond with their supporters.

Just like on January 6th, the views of our people are being violated. Our interests are not being represented, Trump is dictating the law by executive order and our people suffer for it.