Microsoft to Dump Windows 8

[sangha]

I got a new desktop for my parents (in their 80's) which came with Windows 8. Their old desktop had XP. Needless to say it was a huge change, and I have Win 7 on mine. So I wasn't up to speed either. I don't care for the apps page versus the way it has been since the beginning. But it is what it is. Had to buy a new printer because their old one wasn't compatible.

The UI in Win8 is based on a completely different paradigm than previous versions of Windows. Instead of keyboard-and-mouse-based interaction, it is based on touch, which is what many mobile devices are based on. Again, this is part of their move to a single OS for all platforms. I think their mistake was in assuming that the mobile interface would be welcomed on desktops.

As I mentioned, touchscreens are best suited to emulating hardware interfaces, and that's not particularly compelling for office workers. Also, while there are many who welcome innovation and learning new technology, most people are resistant to it, and for good reason. In the workplace, people aren't eager to take on the burden of learning a new technology. They just want to get through the day and do their job.

My guess is that MS will come out with a new OS that allows users to continue using the old paradigm (for users who need to upgrade from XP but don't need to (or can't) integrate mobile devices into their systems, and the new touchscreen-based paradigm (for users who can and want to integrate mobile devices into their apps)

 

[Mycroft]

The UI in Win8 is based on a completely different paradigm than previous versions of Windows. Instead of keyboard-and-mouse-based interaction, it is based on touch, which is what many mobile devices are based on. Again, this is part of their move to a single OS for all platforms. I think their mistake was in assuming that the mobile interface would be welcomed on desktops.

As I mentioned, touchscreens are best suited to emulating hardware interfaces, and that's not particularly compelling for office workers. Also, while there are many who welcome innovation and learning new technology, most people are resistant to it, and for good reason. In the workplace, people aren't eager to take on the burden of learning a new technology. They just want to get through the day and do their job.

My guess is that MS will come out with a new OS that allows users to continue using the old paradigm (for users who need to upgrade from XP but don't need to (or can't) integrate mobile devices into their systems, and the new touchscreen-based paradigm (for users who can and want to integrate mobile devices into their apps)

I agree with most everything you say...except for your guess.

You see, Win8 ALREADY allows users to continue using the old paradigm. Right now, without any modifications, it just takes one keypress to get there. Now...it seems pretty certain that MS will soon modify Win8 to allow the user to eliminate that one keypress, but I don't really see them coming out with a new OS.

 

[sangha]

I agree with most everything you say...except for your guess.

You see, Win8 ALREADY allows users to continue using the old paradigm. Right now, without any modifications, it just takes one keypress to get there. Now...it seems pretty certain that MS will soon modify Win8 to allow the user to eliminate that one keypress, but I don't really see them coming out with a new OS.

Yes, you're right about that. However, given the reaction I think it's safe to say they could have done a better job of allowing users to get to the old desktop

And MS will never "go back". The user interface may change and adapt, but the basics of Win8 (the underlying DLL's, etc) will be used as the base for the next version of Windows.

 

[clownboy]

Yes, you're right about that. However, given the reaction I think it's safe to say they could have done a better job of allowing users to get to the old desktop

And MS will never "go back". The user interface may change and adapt, but the basics of Win8 (the underlying DLL's, etc) will be used as the base for the next version of Windows.

Agreed on that last, but it is indeed the UI changes that will hold the enterprise back from adoption. Thank goodness we have server 2012 out (win7 like UI), that'll give us several years before we even think of "upgrading". Perhaps enough time for MS to realize their total failure with this UI move.

And no one with a secure enterprise setup is going to allow tablet use anywhere near administration. Suckers are so easy to hack might as well just advertise on your site - come and get our data.

 

[Mycroft]

Yes, you're right about that. However, given the reaction I think it's safe to say they could have done a better job of allowing users to get to the old desktop

And MS will never "go back". The user interface may change and adapt, but the basics of Win8 (the underlying DLL's, etc) will be used as the base for the next version of Windows.

Ummm....how could they have done a "better job" than by requiring one keypress? I mean, seriously, even an 80 year old can do that, don't you think? No, MS's mistake was thinking people were smart enough to hit that one key. Now they have to modify things so people have the option of not having to press that one key. Of course, I expect there will be those who can't even figure out how to set the option...but, oh well.

I agree that MS will never go back. The modern UI is here to stay. People better just get with it....or find another OS.

 

[Amadeus]

All you have to do is install Classic Shell and you pretty much have Windows 7 back.

 

[Bonzai]

This is good news if true.

 

[Master PO]

their are small easy to install programs which turn windows 8 back to the old format like windows 7.

 

[Slyfox696]

I thought that was a pretty good article, but I don't think it leads to the conclusions that Win8 is dead in the water. What it shows is the general conservatism of the business community, which is reluctant to make major change without a valid justification for it.

It's also about not wanting to take the time to re-train their users how to use Windows 8. It's about not wanting to break software which is crucial to the business (which is why so many businesses still run Internet Explorer 6, God help them).

However, these apps will be developed and in order to have them run on the variety of platforms, enterprises will have to move to Win8 (or whatever Win8-based OS succeeds it).

Windows 8 is dead in the water for businesses. Far too many companies were still running XP, and have gradually been phasing in Windows 7. Much like Vista, Windows 8 will be skipped and it will still be a few years before companies get away from XP/7.

The UI in Win8 is based on a completely different paradigm than previous versions of Windows. Instead of keyboard-and-mouse-based interaction, it is based on touch, which is what many mobile devices are based on. Again, this is part of their move to a single OS for all platforms. I think their mistake was in assuming that the mobile interface would be welcomed on desktops.

I disagree, I think their mistake was not listening to all the tech people who told them the mobile interface would not be welcome on desktops. There's nothing wrong with company loyalty, but you have to be able to see big picture, and that simply did not happen in this case.

Thank goodness we have server 2012 out (win7 like UI)

I've not used Windows server since 2003 (I think?) and it was terrible in comparison to our Netware 6.5 server (which was a f*cking beast of a champ of a server for many years). What is Windows server like these days?

Ummm....how could they have done a "better job" than by requiring one keypress? I mean, seriously, even an 80 year old can do that, don't you think? No, MS's mistake was thinking people were smart enough to hit that one key. Now they have to modify things so people have the option of not having to press that one key. Of course, I expect there will be those who can't even figure out how to set the option...but, oh well.

I agree that MS will never go back. The modern UI is here to stay. People better just get with it....or find another OS.

Even MS shills on sites like Slashdot don't defend Windows as vigorously as you are.

All you have to do is install Classic Shell and you pretty much have Windows 7 back.

Or I could just install Windows 7 and have Windows 7.

their are small easy to install programs which turn windows 8 back to the old format like windows 7.

I've yet to hear one good explanation on why I should have to install programs to get my computer back to what I had.

 

[sangha]

Ummm....how could they have done a "better job" than by requiring one keypress? I mean, seriously, even an 80 year old can do that, don't you think? No, MS's mistake was thinking people were smart enough to hit that one key. Now they have to modify things so people have the option of not having to press that one key. Of course, I expect there will be those who can't even figure out how to set the option...but, oh well.

I agree that MS will never go back. The modern UI is here to stay. People better just get with it....or find another OS.

I hear ya! With many years experience writing programs, I can't count how many times I've heard people whine about some little detail, as if it screwed their entire lives up. I don't quite get it either. However, one thing I've learned is that you can't tell people that it's no big deal. Well, you *can* say that, but they won't listen. After all, we're talking about people who got upset over hitting one key. Do you think reasoning with them is going to do any good?

In the end, a business is about satisfying their customers. It doesn't matter how "stupid" their complaints are.

 

[Slyfox696]

I hear ya! With many years experience writing programs, I can't count how many times I've heard people whine about some little detail, as if it screwed their entire lives up. I don't quite get it either. However, one thing I've learned is that you can't tell people that it's no big deal. Well, you *can* say that, but they won't listen. After all, we're talking about people who got upset over hitting one key. Do you think reasoning with them is going to do any good?

In the end, a business is about satisfying their customers. It doesn't matter how "stupid" their complaints are.

What's stupider, a person complaining about having to hit a key on their keyboard every time they reboot or not including a simple check box a user can hit one time to get the desktop they want every time they boot, which would likely have sold many more copies of Windows?

 

[AlabamaPaul]

What's stupider, a person complaining about having to hit a key on their keyboard every time they reboot or not including a simple check box a user can hit one time to get the desktop they want every time they boot, which would likely have sold many more copies of Windows?

I do get my desktop every time I reboot...

 

[Slyfox696]

I do get my desktop every time I reboot...

How so?

 

[Master PO]

I've yet to hear one good explanation on why I should have to install programs to get my computer back to what I had.

well i not giving you anything, just stating ,that you dont have to uninstall 8 to get a windows 7 ...screen.menus ..etc.

 

[Slyfox696]

well i not giving you anything, just stating ,that you dont have to uninstall 8 to get a windows 7 ...screen.menus ..etc.

I get you, I'm just saying I think it's silly the answer to get what I've always had (and what a very sizable group of people want) is to install 3rd party programs.

 

[sangha]

It's also about not wanting to take the time to re-train their users how to use Windows 8. It's about not wanting to break software which is crucial to the business (which is why so many businesses still run Internet Explorer 6, God help them).

Yes, this is what I was referring to as "general conservatism"

Windows 8 is dead in the water for businesses. Far too many companies were still running XP, and have gradually been phasing in Windows 7. Much like Vista, Windows 8 will be skipped and it will still be a few years before companies get away from XP/7.

Not exactly. In the end, businesses may end up skipping Win8 and go right to whatever OS succeeds it (Win9?), but whatever that OS is, it's going to be built on top of Win8.

I think the mistake that some people are making is thinking that Win8 is all about the new UI. MS could completely replace the UI, and it would still be Win8 "under the hood".

I disagree, I think their mistake was not listening to all the tech people who told them the mobile interface would not be welcome on desktops. There's nothing wrong with company loyalty, but you have to be able to see big picture, and that simply did not happen in this case.

Yes, using the touchscreen interface for a desktop was not a good decision. That's what I was saying.

**snip**

I've yet to hear one good explanation on why I should have to install programs to get my computer back to what I had.

Two part answer:

1) You shouldn't

2) You don't

People (and businesses) should only upgrade to Win8 if, and only if, Win8 provides them with something an earlier version does not. If Win8 does not do this, then they should stick with Win7 (or whatever they already have)

 

[sangha]

What's stupider, a person complaining about having to hit a key on their keyboard every time they reboot or not including a simple check box a user can hit one time to get the desktop they want every time they boot, which would likely have sold many more copies of Windows?

I'd say that neither are on the higher end of the IQ curve.

And I don't think this one thing is driving or hindering the sales of Win8

 

[sangha]

I get you, I'm just saying I think it's silly the answer to get what I've always had (and what a very sizable group of people want) is to install 3rd party programs.

If there is a market demand for it, vendors will offer packages with such software already installed and configured to the customers preference.

 

[Slyfox696]

I'd say that neither are on the higher end of the IQ curve.

And I don't think this one thing is driving or hindering the sales of Win8

I think the negative reception, almost from the beginning, hindered sales in some way. The simple check box would have prevented quite a bit of negative feedback in the press.

 

[sangha]

I think the negative reception, almost from the beginning, hindered sales in some way. The simple check box would have prevented quite a bit of negative feedback in the press.

Possible, but few people spend money upgrading unless they have a good reason to do so. If someone had a reason to upgrade, then why would this issue stop them? Who exactly are these people who would have bought Win8 but didn't because of this issue?

 

[Mycroft]

Even MS shills on sites like Slashdot don't defend Windows as vigorously as you are.


I've yet to hear one good explanation on why I should have to install programs to get my computer back to what I had.

That's it? You respond to my statement by making a comment on my actions...but not my words? Okay, dude.

And here is where you betray your ignorance. Nobody says you have to install programs to get your computer back to the way it was. Win8 IS the way it was...unless, of course, you just can't bear to live without a start BUTTON.

 

[Slyfox696]

Possible, but few people spend money upgrading unless they have a good reason to do so. If someone had a reason to upgrade, then why would this issue stop them? Who exactly are these people who would have bought Win8 but didn't because of this issue?

I disagree with your premise. How many people upgrade their iPhone every year? How many people went out and bought Vista and Windows 7 as soon as they could once it was released? Many people upgrade when they need to, but many other people (and I include myself in this category for many things) upgrade when the newer toy comes out.

Had Windows 8 come out with vast improvements but kept what I wanted (and preserved my files) and still cost me $50 for the upgrade, I would have done so.

That's it? You respond to my statement by making a comment on my actions

It wasn't a comment on your statement, but rather your intense defense of Windows 8, which I simply find puzzling.

It wasn't about criticizing whichever quote of yours I responded to. I don't even remember what you said that I quoted.

And here is where you betray your ignorance. Nobody says you have to install programs to get your computer back to the way it was. Win8 IS the way it was...unless, of course, you just can't bear to live without a start BUTTON.

:lol:

My computer right now has a Start button. How do I get my computer to the way it was without installing a program? Also, how do I get my computer to boot straight to the traditional desktop, which is what I use?

Here is where you confirmed what I said about your intensely passionate defense of Windows 8.

 

[jonny5]

I like how every time MS makes a mistake, its THE END. ME didnt sink them, Vista didnt sink them. Win 8 wont sink them. They will learn and improve like they always do.

 

[Slyfox696]

I like how every time MS makes a mistake, its THE END. ME didnt sink them, Vista didnt sink them. Win 8 wont sink them. They will learn and improve like they always do.

I don't think anyone is predicting their demise, but I think they need to make changes to address the customers' desires. If they do that, trumpet the changes, then the people will come flocking to the next version.

 

[jonny5]

I don't think anyone is predicting their demise, but I think they need to make changes to address the customers' desires. If they do that, trumpet the changes, then the people will come flocking to the next version.

They will. They always do.