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Microsoft to Dump Windows 8

The problem with Ubuntu, as I understand it, is they cannot really decide what they want their purpose to be. On one hand, they want to keep the diehard Linux fans, but also want to make it more accessible to the common person. For me, I'm not a big fan of the Unity desktop. Admittedly I've only spent a little time on Unity (it's actually been too long of a time since I used any Linux on a regular basis), but it just did not really seem to make sense to me. I prefer KDE but I never had any problems with Gnome 2 (haven't used Gnome 3, though I know a lot of people weren't happy with it when it came out).

Ubuntu took a huge dive and is trying to be a cross platform OS. This is what the unity interface is about. It's designed to be clean and kind of small so that it fits on any screen. It's the same interface on their ubuntu phone and their ubuntu tablet software. They want the interface of all ubuntu products to remain similar so that your experience, no matter the hardware, will be the same or very similar. What's neat is that you can take your ubuntu phone, USB it into your desktop or laptop and then reboot your computer off that USB drive and it becomes your computer's hardware. That's kind of cool.



It's a huge gamble by ubuntu to burst into the mobile market. That's all that unity interface is.

Slyfox696 said:
For all of that, I really like Windows 7 still. Windows 8/8.1 is awful, but 7 still works great for me. I have OpenSuSE on my laptop (I think still have 12.2 on there, because there was a driver issue with ATI video cards on 13.1) and I just haven't really had much of a time to work on the laptop in the last few months. But I've used OpenSuSE since version 11 first came out and I've always been happy with it (minus the aforementioned driver issue).

I have to admit I really like my win7 desktop and laptop as well. Works great.
 
Every other OS, seriously. XP rocked, Vista sucked, 7 is great, 8 sucks balls. The next one will be the true improvement.

Damn. I was gonna say the exact same thing. You took the wind out of my sails.
 
The problem with Ubuntu, as I understand it, is they cannot really decide what they want their purpose to be. On one hand, they want to keep the diehard Linux fans, but also want to make it more accessible to the common person. For me, I'm not a big fan of the Unity desktop. Admittedly I've only spent a little time on Unity (it's actually been too long of a time since I used any Linux on a regular basis), but it just did not really seem to make sense to me. I prefer KDE but I never had any problems with Gnome 2 (haven't used Gnome 3, though I know a lot of people weren't happy with it when it came out).

For all of that, I really like Windows 7 still. Windows 8/8.1 is awful, but 7 still works great for me. I have OpenSuSE on my laptop (I think still have 12.2 on there, because there was a driver issue with ATI video cards on 13.1) and I just haven't really had much of a time to work on the laptop in the last few months. But I've used OpenSuSE since version 11 first came out and I've always been happy with it (minus the aforementioned driver issue).
And a lot more expensive, as I already said. Seriously, try reading.

What are you talking about? It's not causing me trouble IT DOES NOT EXIST. You cannot create a repair CD disc with 8.1. You were wrong (as usual) and I was right.

Yes, by either booting into Windows (which is not helpful) or by creating the repair disc, which you can't use a CD for...which is what we are talking about.

Seriously, learn what the hell you're talking about when it comes to computers.

That's probably because you don't have much knowledge about computers. This has been established time and time again.

And sometimes ignorant people talk out of their ass about something they don't know anything about.

And it's why Windows 8 and 8.1 combined STILL doesn't have as big of a marketshare as Windows XP.

Windows 8.x


Like I said, learn a little something about computers.

Makes me wonder how well YOU can read.

The link I provided gave step-by-step instruction to create a system repair disc. The link you provided had this title: "Create Recovery Drive or System Repair Disc in Windows 8 and 8.1".

Yet you insist:

What are you talking about? It's not causing me trouble IT DOES NOT EXIST. You cannot create a repair CD disc with 8.1. You were wrong (as usual) and I was right.

Perhaps you should just forget about being wrong or right. Does someone pay you to know about computers?
 
They want the interface of all ubuntu products to remain similar so that your experience, no matter the hardware, will be the same or very similar. What's neat is that you can take your ubuntu phone, USB it into your desktop or laptop and then reboot your computer off that USB drive and it becomes your computer's hardware. That's kind of cool.
It is, but I don't understand why this technology hasn't been pushed more.

The day will come when your phone is your computer or at least will be one of them. Why a company hasn't begun selling docking stations with their phones and made their phones designed to also be your primary OS doesn't make sense to me. I guess the technology just hasn't advanced enough to be as seemless and flawless as it needs to be. But I truly believe that will be a huge tech benefit to whomever can master the technology first.

I have to admit I really like my win7 desktop and laptop as well. Works great.
It really does. And while the settings in 7 can be a little less intuitive than it is in XP, it's still so much better than Windows 8/8.1.

Windows 10 seems to trying to take the best parts of 7 and 8.1 and putting them together. It has me pretty intrigued because, if they do it right, it could be a very good system. There are a lot of things about 8.1 which are good, they are just overshadowed due to all the problems it has. But if those can be smoothed out and return the familiarity Windows created over several decades of operating system dominance, then Windows 10 could have a long life.
Makes me wonder how well YOU can read.
Much better than you apparently.

The link I provided gave step-by-step instruction to create a system repair disc.
In Windows 8. Good God, are you really going to resort to dishonesty to avoid admitting you were wrong? How sad is that?

The link you provided had this title: "Create Recovery Drive or System Repair Disc in Windows 8 and 8.1".
Yes...a recovery drive in 8.1 and repair disc in Windows 8. Once more, you're pushing dishonesty.

Here's the part of the link I provided which you have dishonestly chosen to ignore:

Windows 8 and 8.1 allow creating a bootable Recovery Drive - USB disk that boots right into Recovery Environment (aka Limited Diagnostic Mode) that allows repairing problems, running System Restore and Refreshing or Resetting your PC. The drive or media cannot be used to install Windows. It is very similar to Windows 7's System Repair Disc.
Recovery Drive (the USB version) or System Repair Disc (the CD/DVD version, only available in Windows 8) is meant for those who do not have a bootable Windows 8/8.1 DVD - this is a common case as there is no DVD bundled with computers that have Windows 8 or 8.1 preinstalled (the OEM versions of Windows).

...

First, make sure you have a blank CD/DVD (only in Windows 8) or a USB drive with at least 256 MB (megabytes) of total disk space.

Are you done? You were wrong. It's obvious you were wrong. At this point, anything you say to push the idea that you can create a repair CD on Windows 8.1 will be an intentional lie, which would make you a liar.

Are you really going to knowingly lie? Is that who you are?

Yet you insist:
Yes, because I insist on the truth, not the lies you're trying to tell, lies which have been PROVEN to be lies.

Perhaps you should just forget about being wrong or right.
Or perhaps you could just learn what the hell you're talking about and quit lying about things you have been proven to be wrong about.

Does someone pay you to know about computers?
Yes, which is why I know I'm right. I've tried to create a repair disc in 8.1 on a couple of occasions, only to remember (right before I began cursing at Windows 8.1) it cannot be done.

You're wrong. Go peddle your lies somewhere else.
 
You're wrong. Go peddle your lies somewhere else.

sigh...

Do you have...or do you know how to create...a Win8.1 installation disk...on a CD or DVD? I hope so, since it appears that someone pays you to know that kind of stuff. Well, guess what...THAT is your recovery disk. When you boot your machine with the disk, you get a cool little option to....Repair!!! Damn!! Who would have guessed??
 
How I feel after numerous posts from someone who clearly doesn't understand computers.

Do you have......a Win8.1 installation disk...on a CD or DVD?
Yes. But we're talking about REPAIR discs, which can run on a CD, not a DVD and don't require a large download to create. Furthermore, repair discs can be legally duplicated.

When you boot your machine with the disk, you get a cool little option to....Repair!!! Damn!! Who would have guessed??
So you've moved on from lying about not being able to create a repair disc in Windows 8.1 (good move, you were getting embarrassed) to trying to claim you can use an installation disc which is never provided anymore by manufacturers to do a repair. And THIS is your idea of a great operating system. :lol:

Why are you so desperate to defend an obviously inferior product? It's asinine posts like you've made lately which makes one think you're employed by Microsoft or you just don't have the first clue as to what you're talking about. Hey, I don't care if you like Windows 8/8.1, you're welcome to enjoy it. But there are many problems with it, problems even Microsoft has seemed to acknowledge. The fact you had to resort to lying to defend the product should be a wakeup call to you.

The fact is I deal with Windows 7, 8 and 8.1 all day long. Your dealings with it seem to be limited to the games you like to play and the Internet you use. I have to work on them, repair them, image them, set them up, etc. It's okay for you to admit it has problems. You can still like it, just admit it has problems.

EDIT: Oh, and let's not forget the whole reason we need a repair disc in the first place, which is to boot into Safe Mode. According to you, instead of just pressing F8 like I did for countless number of years, I instead should buy a $5 USB drive or download several gigabytes worth of data to a DVD and, in either case, spend an hour or more to do so.

Yeah, good logic.
 
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How I feel after numerous posts from someone who clearly doesn't understand computers.

Yes. But we're talking about REPAIR discs, which can run on a CD, not a DVD and don't require a large download to create. Furthermore, repair discs can be legally duplicated.

So you've moved on from lying about not being able to create a repair disc in Windows 8.1 (good move, you were getting embarrassed) to trying to claim you can use an installation disc which is never provided anymore by manufacturers to do a repair. And THIS is your idea of a great operating system. :lol:

Why are you so desperate to defend an obviously inferior product? It's asinine posts like you've made lately which makes one think you're employed by Microsoft or you just don't have the first clue as to what you're talking about. Hey, I don't care if you like Windows 8/8.1, you're welcome to enjoy it. But there are many problems with it, problems even Microsoft has seemed to acknowledge. The fact you had to resort to lying to defend the product should be a wakeup call to you.

The fact is I deal with Windows 7, 8 and 8.1 all day long. Your dealings with it seem to be limited to the games you like to play and the Internet you use. I have to work on them, repair them, image them, set them up, etc. It's okay for you to admit it has problems. You can still like it, just admit it has problems.

EDIT: Oh, and let's not forget the whole reason we need a repair disc in the first place, which is to boot into Safe Mode. According to you, instead of just pressing F8 like I did for countless number of years, I instead should buy a $5 USB drive or download several gigabytes worth of data to a DVD and, in either case, spend an hour or more to do so.

Yeah, good logic.

1. The Win8.1 installation disk/USB drive can be used to do a repair. It's built into it. I'm surprised you don't know that. (maybe I shouldn't be)

2. You DON'T need a repair disk to boot into Safe Mode. (seeing you say that, my sense of surprise that you don't know that basic stuff is fading fast)

3. I really have to wonder...5 bucks...downloading an ISO...these are the things that induce you to write off a superior OS...all because you are mad because you can't just hit F8 anymore. What are you going to do when the keyboard and mouse go the way of the floppy disk?
 
What are you going to do when the keyboard and mouse go the way of the floppy disk?

Actually, I still install floppy drives in every new computer I build. Largely that is because a unit like the Sabrent Card Reader - Floppy is within $1 of a card reader alone.

And until 2006, we still needed them to install the OS because the motherboard firmware did not recognize SATA drives. So you installed XP with the CD, but had the floppy with the SATA drivers to access the hard drive.

And the main reason for the obsolescence of the floppy drive had nothing to do with technology, simply capacity. 1.44 MB and even the LS-120 were still good technologies, but the size of data files rapidly increased in size, until it reached the point they were functionally obsolete because of capacity. The Sony Mavica (0.3 megapixel) was a great camera for it's era, and you could store dozens of pictures on each disk. But the increase in resolution and matching increase in file size made these obsolete in less then a decade.

The same happened with the ZIP and JAZ drives. When blank CD disks were in the $20 range, almost everybody had one of these. But once the cost of disks dropped to $30 cents per disk, what was the point? And we have seen the CD-ROM replaced by the DVD for this reason, and at this time BluRay has dropped to the $0.60 cent per disk level, so expect those to replace DVD in the next year or two. It has nothing to do with the older technologies becoming "obsolete", simply that our thirst for data capacity has increased exponentially in the last 2 decades.

Much like Windows. Originally shipping on 2 360k floppies (my first exposure was in Windows 1.04R) , it would not surprise me if the Windows to follow 10 requires a BluRay to install.

As for keyboard and mouse, I do not see those going away anytime in the next decade or two.
 
Actually, I still install floppy drives in every new computer I build. Largely that is because a unit like the Sabrent Card Reader - Floppy is within $1 of a card reader alone.

You are probably one of a dying breed.

And until 2006, we still needed them to install the OS because the motherboard firmware did not recognize SATA drives. So you installed XP with the CD, but had the floppy with the SATA drivers to access the hard drive.

So...you haven't needed a floppy disk for that purpose for almost nine years.

And the main reason for the obsolescence of the floppy drive had nothing to do with technology, simply capacity. 1.44 MB and even the LS-120 were still good technologies, but the size of data files rapidly increased in size, until it reached the point they were functionally obsolete because of capacity. The Sony Mavica (0.3 megapixel) was a great camera for it's era, and you could store dozens of pictures on each disk. But the increase in resolution and matching increase in file size made these obsolete in less then a decade.

The same happened with the ZIP and JAZ drives. When blank CD disks were in the $20 range, almost everybody had one of these. But once the cost of disks dropped to $30 cents per disk, what was the point? And we have seen the CD-ROM replaced by the DVD for this reason, and at this time BluRay has dropped to the $0.60 cent per disk level, so expect those to replace DVD in the next year or two. It has nothing to do with the older technologies becoming "obsolete", simply that our thirst for data capacity has increased exponentially in the last 2 decades.

Capacity isn't the only reason. Read/write speed matters, as well.

Much like Windows. Originally shipping on 2 360k floppies (my first exposure was in Windows 1.04R) , it would not surprise me if the Windows to follow 10 requires a BluRay to install.

Win8 didn't require any storage media to install...I did it all online. I did create an install USB after the fact for "just in case", though. I expect I'll do the same if I get Win10.

As for keyboard and mouse, I do not see those going away anytime in the next decade or two.

Oh, I really don't think the keyboard and mouse will go away, but I do see people using them less and less. As I said earlier, I use my Android tablet a lot to control my desktop and when Cortana comes out, I'll be using my mic. I also think spacial gestures will make inroads within the next decade or so. All making the keyboard and mouse less necessary than they are now.
 
You are probably one of a dying breed.

Actually, quite a few people I know who build computers instead of buying them "off the shelf" do the exact same thing, for the exact same reason.

When you are Dell or HP and shipping computers by the tens of thousands, that adds up. When you are "Joe's Computer Shop" and build them by the dozens, it is an insignificant cost. And to be honest, I have only bought 1 "pre-built" PC in my life, back in 1988. Every computer I have owned in the last 27 years has been one I built myself.

And even when I worked in a store and custom built them for clients, maybe 1 in 10 would choose to save the $1 by installing just a card reader instead of the floppy-card reader.

And yes, I have built many hundreds of computers.

So...you haven't needed a floppy disk for that purpose for almost nine years.

Not that reason, no. But just a few months ago I had to install a floppy into a guy's computer because his RAID card required special drivers that the firmware of the motherboard did not recognize. And I still occasionally get tapped to install one because somebody bought a new computer without a floppy, then realized they had to pull data off of an old floppy disk.

Capacity isn't the only reason. Read/write speed matters, as well.

That goes with capacity. But there were some high-speed floppy drives available towards the end of their usefulness.

The X10 came out in around 1997, but it required a special controller card (with a built-in 80188 CPU) that could cache an entire 1/44MB floppy in less then 5 seconds. But they were significantly more expensive then a standard floppy drive (around $250 for drive and controller, compared to $50 for a standard floppy). This was also the time that the CDRW cost dropped from $20 to $1 per disk, and the ZIP drive was becoming dominant, so the technology was dead at birth.

The cost for the increased speed and lower capacity was just not justified.

The LS-120 was also significantly faster then the standard 1.44 MB drive. But it also was in the $150 range, so never caught on with the public.

Win8 didn't require any storage media to install...I did it all online. I did create an install USB after the fact for "just in case", though. I expect I'll do the same if I get Win10.

You are aware that you are not the standard computer user, are you not?

When talking about how things like software are installed, you have to deal with one of the lowest common denominators. And that is the people that know "turn on, insert disk, install". Talk to 80% of computer users and describe how to make a bootable CD (let alone a bootable USB drive), and you are going to get nothing but a blank stare.

And as for me, I never buy my software "over the internet". I am one of those old-school individuals (as are most others), who wants to be able to hold the media in my hand. Most people only install their OS once, maybe twice. They like the convenience of owning the OS on a disk, so they can install any time they want.

Oh, I really don't think the keyboard and mouse will go away, but I do see people using them less and less. As I said earlier, I use my Android tablet a lot to control my desktop and when Cortana comes out, I'll be using my mic. I also think spacial gestures will make inroads within the next decade or so. All making the keyboard and mouse less necessary than they are now.

I don't. I am also in no way a technophobe, I tend to be on the forward edge of computers. I have an Android phone, as well as a Nexus 7 tablet (which I occasionally use TeamViewer to access my desktop). My main laptop is a Dual Core AMD, and my server is a dual processor Opteron 1U blade server (Windows Server 2008/2012/Mint Maya). My switch is a Cisco Catalyst, and I am one of the few I know that still uses his RS-232 port.

But I am also aware that I am in the top level of computer users, and most do not even want to be bothered with even adding more RAM - let alone making install USBs. Heck, many of our customers every year would bring us their computers so we could install the newest version of Norton. They did not even want to be bothered with something as simple as that.

You are suffering from something I have actually seen far to often in "power users". That is that you do not recognize that you are a "power user", and find it impossible to lower yourself to the capabilities of most "standard users". You and I could probably be able to go all day talking about "GUI Vs. CLI", where 90% of users would be looking at us with glazed-over eyes, completely lost at what we are talking about.

Where as I have worked for decades in both the corporate world, as well as in small mom and pop computer stores, and also self-employed. I have dealt with everybody from the video production company wanting a quad processor system for video editing, to the old lady who simply wants to "turn it on and e-mail the grandkids". And the majority of computer users are more like the second then the first. I still see people constantly who call the Computer the "CPU" or "Hard Drive", and who call the network port the "modem connection". Ask them their OS, and most still tell me "Windows", and have no idea the difference between "RAM" and "Storage".

Me: How much RAM do you have in your computer?
Them: I think 1 Terabyte.

Me: How big is your hard drive?
Them: 8 Gigabyte.

Me: Who made your computer?
Them: Microsoft.

Them: I have heard a lot about 'Linux', can you put that in my computer?
Me: Sure, what do you use your computer for?
Them: Well, mostly games. Halo, Grand Theft Auto, Call of Duty, WoW, things like that.
Me: How comfortable are you in working with a Virtual Machine?
Them: A what?
Me: Do you know what kernel or build of Linux you want to use?
Them: Yes, Linux.

There, that is your typical computer user. You are so far beyond that, that you seem to have lost contact with the ability of where most users actually are at.
 
1. The Win8.1 installation disk/USB drive can be used to do a repair. It's built into it.
...you cannot be serious.

Read the damn thread and quit saying things I've already addressed. Why in the hell you refuse to read and understand things, I don't understand. Are you really this ignorant when it comes to computers?

2. You DON'T need a repair disk to boot into Safe Mode.
Yes, you do, if the machine doesn't boot (which is one of the major reasons Safe Mode is used). We've already discussed this. Seriously, learn to read the damn thread.

(seeing you say that, my sense of surprise that you don't know that basic stuff is fading fast)
Says the person who has consistently posted lies nonstop in this thread. Your desperation is so obvious right now.

3. I really have to wonder...5 bucks...downloading an ISO...these are the things that induce you to write off a superior OS
No, they are just some of the evidence which shows how asinine some of the decisions which went into Windows 8/8.1 were.

...all because you are mad because you can't just hit F8 anymore.
No, I'm pointing how incredibly stupid it is to require you to boot into Windows just to boot into Safe Mode, when one of the primary reasons to boot into Safe Mode is because you can't boot into Windows. And the way to boot into Safe Mode without booting into Windows (wait, do I need to slow down for you? You seem to have way too much difficulty understanding such simple words thus far, I can break it down further for you if you'd like) is to no longer use a $.20 CD (like you could for years) but rather a much more expensive USB drive or a large download of data.

I don't expect you to discuss this honestly, but at the very least could you be more original with the lies you're posting and not just repeating the same things over and over which have already been discredited?

What are you going to do when the keyboard and mouse go the way of the floppy disk?
I'll just come to you, because you'll have no trouble lying about the fact the keyboard and mouse can still be used in Windows, even after being provided definitive proof they cannot. You already have a track record of lying about anything to protect Microsoft.

Which is why it's so hard to believe you're not getting paid to shill their product.
Actually, quite a few people I know who build computers instead of buying them "off the shelf" do the exact same thing, for the exact same reason.

When you are Dell or HP and shipping computers by the tens of thousands, that adds up. When you are "Joe's Computer Shop" and build them by the dozens, it is an insignificant cost. And to be honest, I have only bought 1 "pre-built" PC in my life, back in 1988. Every computer I have owned in the last 27 years has been one I built myself.

And even when I worked in a store and custom built them for clients, maybe 1 in 10 would choose to save the $1 by installing just a card reader instead of the floppy-card reader.

And yes, I have built many hundreds of computers.

Not that reason, no. But just a few months ago I had to install a floppy into a guy's computer because his RAID card required special drivers that the firmware of the motherboard did not recognize. And I still occasionally get tapped to install one because somebody bought a new computer without a floppy, then realized they had to pull data off of an old floppy disk.
Do you really think he understands what you're talking about? This is a poster who posted comments which were obviously false because he couldn't bear the thought of having to admit Windows did something stupid.

You are suffering from something I have actually seen far to often in "power users". That is that you do not recognize that you are a "power user", and find it impossible to lower yourself to the capabilities of most "standard users". You and I could probably be able to go all day talking about "GUI Vs. CLI", where 90% of users would be looking at us with glazed-over eyes, completely lost at what we are talking about.
It's more than that though. People like this also suffer from the idea that if it's not something which affects THEM then it simply does not exist anywhere and anyone who actually works on computers and encounters these errors must be lying or incompetent.

It's an arrogant attitude which can only be had through ignorance.
 
Actually, I still install floppy drives in every new computer I build. Largely that is because a unit like the Sabrent Card Reader - Floppy is within $1 of a card reader alone.

And until 2006, we still needed them to install the OS because the motherboard firmware did not recognize SATA drives. So you installed XP with the CD, but had the floppy with the SATA drivers to access the hard drive.

And the main reason for the obsolescence of the floppy drive had nothing to do with technology, simply capacity. 1.44 MB and even the LS-120 were still good technologies, but the size of data files rapidly increased in size, until it reached the point they were functionally obsolete because of capacity. The Sony Mavica (0.3 megapixel) was a great camera for it's era, and you could store dozens of pictures on each disk. But the increase in resolution and matching increase in file size made these obsolete in less then a decade.

The same happened with the ZIP and JAZ drives. When blank CD disks were in the $20 range, almost everybody had one of these. But once the cost of disks dropped to $30 cents per disk, what was the point? And we have seen the CD-ROM replaced by the DVD for this reason, and at this time BluRay has dropped to the $0.60 cent per disk level, so expect those to replace DVD in the next year or two. It has nothing to do with the older technologies becoming "obsolete", simply that our thirst for data capacity has increased exponentially in the last 2 decades.

Much like Windows. Originally shipping on 2 360k floppies (my first exposure was in Windows 1.04R) , it would not surprise me if the Windows to follow 10 requires a BluRay to install.

As for keyboard and mouse, I do not see those going away anytime in the next decade or two.

I hope not. As for the floppy drive, I just this afternoon finally threw away a bunch of disks because I don't have that drive. I didn't know that the drive could still be installed, and now I feel a bit sick.

As for Windows 8, I have to use it at a copy place and always have to ask for help. I hate icons. And I hate Microsoft in general for screwing up Word in 2007 with that damned extra space between paragraphs and its determination to have Calibri 11-point as a default. Every time I have to reboot, I have to reset, and even then, Word is just determined to have its way.
 
It's more than that though. People like this also suffer from the idea that if it's not something which affects THEM then it simply does not exist anywhere and anyone who actually works on computers and encounters these errors must be lying or incompetent.

It's an arrogant attitude which can only be had through ignorance.

This is something I run into far to often among the "Uber-geeks".

These are the people who say that "Linux" is the best OS ever, then turn around and say that they run a lot of software in an "Emulator" like WINE (which ironically stands for "WINE Is Not An Emulator", one of the most ironic acronyms to me next to TWAIN).

Of course, I also love the "Libertarian Linux Heads", who say the OS to use is SuSE or SCO, because they are not "giving money to Micro$oft". Not even realizing that both of these are ultimately based upon the Xenix version of Unix, which was once the most common Unix variation in the world. And made by, yes, Microsoft.

I think one of my advantages in this industry is that I have always tried to maintain contact to the "Common User". And my background in computers is quite deep. I first wrote code in COBOL on 80 column keypunch cards. My first sales job in computers was the Apple II. In High School I helped a guy build a Sinclair ZX81 kit, and the first computers I owned were the Pet, Vic-20 and C-64.

Hell, I do not even have to think about the command DEBUG G=C800:5. Good luck explaining that to most computer users.

But I am always amazed that the top 10% of computer users have no idea what it is like for 75% of the common users. These are the people who thought eMule was legal because they paid for it, and that "Macs are immune to virus". Most computer users view their computer like an appliance, and think you are cheating them because you can not take their AT Pentium I motherboard and "upgrade" it to a modern system for $200. I actually had a gal get offended a few years ago when she asked me to upgrade her Packard Bell 80386SX-25, and I told her to throw it in the dumpster in the back of the shop and buy our used Dell OptiPlex. It was a 2.4 GHz P4 for $200, because there was absolutely nothing I could use from her old computer but the monitor (and I suggested she spend $50 for a newer SVGA monitor instead of trying to use her old VGA one). Her old computer actually had an onboard MFM hard drive, and a 14.4 modem-sound card!

She actually walked out the door convinced I was trying to rip her off.

I am one of the minority, an uber-geek who is still rooted deeply in the abilities of the common user. I can talk IRQ and DMA and the differences between Thicknet, Thinnet and 10-Base-whatever with the best of them. I can get into arguments of various RAID arrays, and the advantages and disadvantages of the various Linux systems. But I can also talk to the typical user, who looks at a package of CD-R+, CD-R-, and CDRW and has no idea what it means. I think half of the time I spend at a store like Fry's is spent helping customers because they have no idea what the salesman is trying to tell them (or even correcting them, like one a few weeks ago who tried to tell a guy with a Dual-SLI system that a 500 watt power supply was "more then sufficient").

And yes, most power-users are arrogant. They are aware they are in the upper percentage of users, and do not understand why more people are not like them. To them the computer is the best thing ever made, and everybody should be as enthusiastic about them as they are. They just do not understand how most people are almost completely ignorant about them, and only want to turn them on and have them work. I have had more people then I can recount actually surprised that you can lay one on it's side and have it work just fine! I still remember when the second generation of ATI All-In-Wonder cards came out, and people were shocked you could watch TV on their computer (as well as record it, long before TIVO came out).

They simply can't "dumb themselves down" and talk about computers at the level of the common user, and are shocked that people are not as advanced as they are. They think of me as a heretic because I insist that "Linux will never take over the industry" because it is beyond the scope of most users, let alone most corporate users. Yea, it is free, but it is so far beyond the ability of most users that you might as well be talking Sanskrit to most people when describing the differences between RedHat or Denebian, or Chrome and Chromium.

90% of users do not know or care about this, they just want it to work.
 
...you cannot be serious.

Read the damn thread and quit saying things I've already addressed. Why in the hell you refuse to read and understand things, I don't understand. Are you really this ignorant when it comes to computers?

Oh...I'm serious.

The optical way in Windows 8.1
In Windows 8.1, you can create a Recovery Drive on a USB flash drive using the same procedure as in Windows 8. In Windows 8.1, you get an optical Recovery Drive by using your Windows 8.1 installation DVD. You probably updated to Windows 8.1 via the Windows Store and don't have a Windows 8.1 installation DVD, but you can get one by following the procedure I describe in the article Get the ISO you need to create your own Windows 8.1 DVD.

Win81RecoveryFigB_122613.jpg

Pro tip: Use an optical Recovery Drive in Windows 8.1 - TechRepublic

No sense going on with you. You obviously don't know as much about Win8/8.1 as you think you do.
 
I hope not. As for the floppy drive, I just this afternoon finally threw away a bunch of disks because I don't have that drive. I didn't know that the drive could still be installed, and now I feel a bit sick.

That is a shame, and I am sorry about that. If it is not to late try and get them back out if there is something you may need on them.

Interestingly enough, one of my contracts in 2000 was with Sony Pictures. At that time they were working on a revival for the series "Fame", but they had a problem. They had all of the original scripts for the original series, but they were all on 5.25" 360k floppies. I made a couple of hundred dollars taking all of the data and pulling them off, converting them to RTF from WordStar, and then putting them on a CD-ROM.

Yes, floppy drives are still being made. Hell, it was only 3 years ago that I finally dumped my old TEAC dual 5 1/4 - 3 1/2 inch floppy and chose to only put in a 3 1/2 inch floppy. But I still have the old TEAC dual in storage, in the event that I may need to pull off some old date "someday". I also have a ZIP drive for the same reason. As well as a SCSI-II card in the same box.

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Most motherboards (OEM not store bought) still have a "Floppy Controller", even the new computer I built for my wife last year had a floppy controller on it. The only real issue now is that most of the disks were made with a 10 year shelf life, so that the oxide is starting to separate from the media and are becoming increasingly unreadable.

NM-003-unit.jpg


But the drives are still made to this day. And there are still companies making blank disks. These are still common in other areas of the world, even if they are antiquated in the US and most of Europe.
 
Actually, quite a few people I know who build computers instead of buying them "off the shelf" do the exact same thing, for the exact same reason.

When you are Dell or HP and shipping computers by the tens of thousands, that adds up. When you are "Joe's Computer Shop" and build them by the dozens, it is an insignificant cost. And to be honest, I have only bought 1 "pre-built" PC in my life, back in 1988. Every computer I have owned in the last 27 years has been one I built myself.

And even when I worked in a store and custom built them for clients, maybe 1 in 10 would choose to save the $1 by installing just a card reader instead of the floppy-card reader.

And yes, I have built many hundreds of computers.



Not that reason, no. But just a few months ago I had to install a floppy into a guy's computer because his RAID card required special drivers that the firmware of the motherboard did not recognize. And I still occasionally get tapped to install one because somebody bought a new computer without a floppy, then realized they had to pull data off of an old floppy disk.



That goes with capacity. But there were some high-speed floppy drives available towards the end of their usefulness.

The X10 came out in around 1997, but it required a special controller card (with a built-in 80188 CPU) that could cache an entire 1/44MB floppy in less then 5 seconds. But they were significantly more expensive then a standard floppy drive (around $250 for drive and controller, compared to $50 for a standard floppy). This was also the time that the CDRW cost dropped from $20 to $1 per disk, and the ZIP drive was becoming dominant, so the technology was dead at birth.

The cost for the increased speed and lower capacity was just not justified.

The LS-120 was also significantly faster then the standard 1.44 MB drive. But it also was in the $150 range, so never caught on with the public.



You are aware that you are not the standard computer user, are you not?

When talking about how things like software are installed, you have to deal with one of the lowest common denominators. And that is the people that know "turn on, insert disk, install". Talk to 80% of computer users and describe how to make a bootable CD (let alone a bootable USB drive), and you are going to get nothing but a blank stare.

And as for me, I never buy my software "over the internet". I am one of those old-school individuals (as are most others), who wants to be able to hold the media in my hand. Most people only install their OS once, maybe twice. They like the convenience of owning the OS on a disk, so they can install any time they want.



I don't. I am also in no way a technophobe, I tend to be on the forward edge of computers. I have an Android phone, as well as a Nexus 7 tablet (which I occasionally use TeamViewer to access my desktop). My main laptop is a Dual Core AMD, and my server is a dual processor Opteron 1U blade server (Windows Server 2008/2012/Mint Maya). My switch is a Cisco Catalyst, and I am one of the few I know that still uses his RS-232 port.

But I am also aware that I am in the top level of computer users, and most do not even want to be bothered with even adding more RAM - let alone making install USBs. Heck, many of our customers every year would bring us their computers so we could install the newest version of Norton. They did not even want to be bothered with something as simple as that.

You are suffering from something I have actually seen far to often in "power users". That is that you do not recognize that you are a "power user", and find it impossible to lower yourself to the capabilities of most "standard users". You and I could probably be able to go all day talking about "GUI Vs. CLI", where 90% of users would be looking at us with glazed-over eyes, completely lost at what we are talking about.

Where as I have worked for decades in both the corporate world, as well as in small mom and pop computer stores, and also self-employed. I have dealt with everybody from the video production company wanting a quad processor system for video editing, to the old lady who simply wants to "turn it on and e-mail the grandkids". And the majority of computer users are more like the second then the first. I still see people constantly who call the Computer the "CPU" or "Hard Drive", and who call the network port the "modem connection". Ask them their OS, and most still tell me "Windows", and have no idea the difference between "RAM" and "Storage".

Me: How much RAM do you have in your computer?
Them: I think 1 Terabyte.

Me: How big is your hard drive?
Them: 8 Gigabyte.

Me: Who made your computer?
Them: Microsoft.

Them: I have heard a lot about 'Linux', can you put that in my computer?
Me: Sure, what do you use your computer for?
Them: Well, mostly games. Halo, Grand Theft Auto, Call of Duty, WoW, things like that.
Me: How comfortable are you in working with a Virtual Machine?
Them: A what?
Me: Do you know what kernel or build of Linux you want to use?
Them: Yes, Linux.

There, that is your typical computer user. You are so far beyond that, that you seem to have lost contact with the ability of where most users actually are at.

I won't call myself a power user...that's really an ambiguous and relative term...but I do admit that I know a bit more than the run-of-the-mill computer user.

I bought one Windows computer from a store...back in 1998. Since then I've built my own. And, sure, I agree with and understand what you are saying about the average user.

But that brings up the complaint about Win8 that irritates me the most. One person will complain that Win8 was made for the lowest denominator and is useless for power users. Then another person will say that Win8 is too complicated for the average user and only the power user can make sense of it. Sorry, but they can't have it both ways and, in my opinion, they are both wrong. Win8 is nothing more than a souped up Win7 with app support. And, if you don't like one part of it or the other, you don't have to use it. You are free to use the OS as you please.

The complaint that irritates me next most is from the person that says..."It's different. It's changed. It sucks!!" To that person, I say..."Tough. Either get over yourself or stay in the past. Your choice." Microsoft is NOT going to go back to XP/Win7. (except they caved on the Start Button thing)

Now...for you...the guy who makes money building computers...I don't think things have changed all that much because of Win8. Oh...for sure, you probably have to point out that Windows Key so they know how to get to the desktop, but those questions you asked didn't come about because of Win8. I'm sure they were asked as far back as Win95 or earlier.
 
The complaint that irritates me next most is from the person that says..."It's different. It's changed. It sucks!!" To that person, I say..."Tough. Either get over yourself or stay in the past. Your choice." Microsoft is NOT going to go back to XP/Win7. (except they caved on the Start Button thing)

One thing anybody has to get used to is change.

Back in 1995, I had a project where a law office wanted me to come in and convert all of their "New Windows 95" machines to use the Windows 3.1 interface (yes, Program Manger was included). I tried to talk them out of it, but they insisted that I do it. So I converted them.

Then a few months later I went back and changed them all back to the standard Windows 95 interface (I did not charge them for this, even thought it was at least 4 billable hours).

One thing people have to be used to is change. I always tell them to spend 1 month with a new interface, then decide if they like it, or prefer the old one. Not just a couple of hours.

Now...for you...the guy who makes money building computers...I don't think things have changed all that much because of Win8. Oh...for sure, you probably have to point out that Windows Key so they know how to get to the desktop, but those questions you asked didn't come about because of Win8. I'm sure they were asked as far back as Win95 or earlier.

Actually, I have been out of the "Retail Business" since 2007. Since then I have been in the military (PATRIOT missile), or in military IT or Corporate IT (Ubuntu-Chrome-Chromium-Vista-Server 2008). The only computers I have built since 2007 have been for friends, or family. When I stopped working "Retail Computers", Vista was the newest thing on the block.

But I still keep my hand in the industry, and still hang out at a couple of local stores. Kind of like how us bikers often hang out at bike stores and talk about motorcycles, us computer nerds often hang out at computer stores. I still keep my feet in the pond, even if I am not actively in that segment of the industry anymore.

But every major revision of Windows has had a learning curve. Win 2.0 to 3.0, 3.0 to 3.1 ("Multi-media PC"), Win 95, Win 98, NT 3.51, NT4, Win2K, XP, Vista, Win7, Win8, nothing has changed. Hell, I was a dedicated Win2K user until 2004 when Service Pack 2 came out. The only reason I was an early Vista adopter was because I had this nice and new dual core 64 bit processor, and could not imagine hobbling myself with XP 64 bit.

I have literally used every OS from Dos 2 and Windows 1.04R to Windows 8 (in a virtual machine - I hated the interface). And many others, from GEM and GEOS to Novel (2 and 3) and DR-DOS. And a great many others I have forgotten. I sold computers with 4DOS, Corel Linux, I even experimented with Lindows. But I left the "Retail world" over 7 years ago, and can't imagine returning to it unless I start my own company. The last several hundred computers I built were for my employer (or myself-friends), and the work ones used some rather unique hardware and software that I would never suggest to anybody (ARM processors, Chrome and Chromium OS, turnkey custom built and programmed kiosks).

With what information I had already given, I am surprised that you even have to suggest that. I already stated my familiarity with Chrome and Chromium, how many people who "make money building computers" work with operating systems like that? Hell, if somebody knows enough to use Chrome or Chromium, they can build their own damned computer. Until I was laid off a few months ago, I was doing IT support for a company that provided specialized VOIP services. Our hardware was generally ARM motherboards, with hardware based upon Adtran VOIP switches.

I doubt if even 10% of people have heard of Adtran, let alone know how to interface with a TA924 in CLI mode. Or even know what TFTP is.

However, I have helped quite a few friends in the last few years by "rolling them back" to Windows 7. Generally I buy the smallest hard drive I can get, and a copy of Windows 7 OEM (and yea, I am familiar with the requirements for purchasing OEM operating systems). I then installed Windows 7 on their computer, and added the hard drive as a "data drive" on their system. And yes, I even know how to make an unattended installation, but I am one of those that prefers to do it manually though.

Unless I am using Norton Ghost that is.
 
They simply can't "dumb themselves down" and talk about computers at the level of the common user, and are shocked that people are not as advanced as they are.
I at least understand those people. The people I don't understand are the ones who don't know nearly as much about computers as they think they do, but will still argue about what they don't know, even to the point of having to lie to defend their point. Those are the people I have no use for, as their dishonesty is born purely out of arrogance and ignorance.

There are many things I don't know when it comes to computers. For example, I have extremely limited knowledge when it comes to most programming languages (I can kind of read PHP and Javascript, and can write the simplest of PHP code, but that's it). But I don't go around telling people who DO know those things they are wrong, when they have dealt with those problems on a relatively regular basis.

It's the arrogance of ignorance which just drives me nuts. Unfortunately, it's just something I have to deal with as part of my job and apparently as part of posting on Internet forums.
Oh...I'm serious.
That was an installation disc, the problems with which I've gone over multiple times.. Read your own damn posts, if you can't be bothered to read anything else. God, I've never seen anyone so concerned about an operating system they continually post lies. It's unreal.

No sense going on with you.
Yes, please leave, I've more than had my fill of your lie filled posts.

You obviously don't know as much about Win8/8.1 as you think you do.
Except I obviously do, because I've proven multiple times you cannot create a system repair disc in Windows 8.1 on a CD, which is something that comes in handy when your machine doesn't boot and you need to get into Safe Mode. Which was EXACTLY what I said from the very beginning.

So, yes, peddle your lie filled posts elsewhere. It's obvious you don't know what you're talking about, but still have no problem shilling anyways.
 
So, yes, peddle your lie filled posts elsewhere.

When I present a link that supports what I say and directly refutes your claims, the fact that you need to just call that a lie only illuminates how pathetic you are.

You can't handle the truth...therefore, it's a lie.

You are dismissed.
 
When I present a link that supports what I say and directly refutes your claims, the fact that you need to just call that a lie only illuminates how pathetic you are.
Except you never did anything like that. You presented a link which showed how to do something I already explained the problems with. Once more, you have to resort to a post of lies.

You can't handle the truth...therefore, it's a lie.
No, the fact it is a LIE is what makes it a lie. I'm sorry if you don't understand the difference between a $.20 CD repair disc and a $5 USB storage drive and a large data download, but just because you don't seem to know much about computers, it doesn't change the fact you're completely wrong and continue to insist on posting the lie.

You are dismissed.
I don't blame you for wanting to run away. If I was being exposed as badly as you've been, I'd want to run away too. Luckily for me, facts are on my side, as I've already proven.

Have a good day!
 
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