Microsoft to Dump Windows 8

[solletica]

There has been talk all over, in legit publications for the past 2 months, that Windows will dump Window 8 (thank God) in favor for something called Windows Blue. It will drop the new (and hated by most) Metro interface and finally return to a Windows 7 interface! I am thrilled they are finally going to drop the hatchet on this dirty dog because the only other OS I would consider is Linux if Microsoft stayed the course. The Rumor Is That Microsoft Will Bail On Its New Age User-Interface And Go Back To The Old Style - Business Insider

Then MS can delete Ballmer.

 

[solletica]

The whole Windows OS is an archaic joke, and so is Linux and MacOS and even FreeBSD, though the latter is currently the most advanced server OS, w/Linux leading as the desktop/embedded OS.

The way a modern OS is SUPPOSED to work, first of all, is NOT to have all the files and OS libraries sitting on a user's local disk. That's dumb. Common libraries, APIs, and utilities should be stored in the cloud. And when a user logs on to his session, he's just supposed to get runnable processes that he owns, while the file system is physically remote and/or distributed, with the illusion of only one file system being created to the user.

Furthermore, there should be a clear security distinction between admins and normal users. At no time should a normal user ever be able, via installing malware or otherwise, be able to jeopardize the system, intentionally or thru malware.

That's the way UNIX computing environments are setup--processing is localized and files are stored separately on one or more servers. And root and admin users only can have full access to the system.

Windows 7 improved on the aforementioned security aspect somewhat from XP, but still has a ways to go.

Lastlly, modern OS's are supposed to provide shared variable computing or shared object computing, where shared static variables (or objects) can be created by anyone anywhere in the world and then be made immediately accessible to anyone else in the world via permissions.

This type of shared resource computing is what one would expect in an era of cloud-level computing, yet MS has yet to go there (and likely won't in the next 10 years).

If there's one thing that MS doesn't do, it's innovate.

 

[sangha]

The whole Windows OS is an archaic joke, and so is Linux and MacOS and even FreeBSD, though the latter is currently the most advanced server OS, w/Linux leading as the desktop/embedded OS.

The way a modern OS is SUPPOSED to work, first of all, is NOT to have all the files and OS libraries sitting on a user's local disk. That's dumb. Common libraries, APIs, and utilities should be stored in the cloud. And when a user logs on to his session, he's just supposed to get runnable processes that he owns, while the file system is physically remote and/or distributed, with the illusion of only one file system being created to the user.

Furthermore, there should be a clear security distinction between admins and normal users. At no time should a normal user ever be able, via installing malware or otherwise, be able to jeopardize the system, intentionally or thru malware.

That's the way UNIX computing environments are setup--processing is localized and files are stored separately on one or more servers. And root and admin users only can have full access to the system.

Windows 7 improved on the aforementioned security aspect somewhat from XP, but still has a ways to go.

Lastlly, modern OS's are supposed to provide shared variable computing or shared object computing, where shared static variables (or objects) can be created by anyone anywhere in the world and then be made immediately accessible to anyone else in the world via permissions.

This type of shared resource computing is what one would expect in an era of cloud-level computing, yet MS has yet to go there (and likely won't in the next 10 years).

If there's one thing that MS doesn't do, it's innovate.

You sound more familiar with UNIX than MS. Windows offers the most of the functionality that you believe is missing. The functionality it doesn't offer (storing API's etc in the cloud) are ones I wouldn't want.

For example, it is possible to prevent a user from logging on as an admin, and Windows allows distributed resource computing and has for many years. It's known as n-tier design (shared objects in languages such as VB.NET and C# refer to objects whose properties and methods can be referred to without instantiating a specific object)

 

[Mycroft]

The whole Windows OS is an archaic joke, and so is Linux and MacOS and even FreeBSD, though the latter is currently the most advanced server OS, w/Linux leading as the desktop/embedded OS.

The way a modern OS is SUPPOSED to work, first of all, is NOT to have all the files and OS libraries sitting on a user's local disk. That's dumb. Common libraries, APIs, and utilities should be stored in the cloud. And when a user logs on to his session, he's just supposed to get runnable processes that he owns, while the file system is physically remote and/or distributed, with the illusion of only one file system being created to the user.

Furthermore, there should be a clear security distinction between admins and normal users. At no time should a normal user ever be able, via installing malware or otherwise, be able to jeopardize the system, intentionally or thru malware.

That's the way UNIX computing environments are setup--processing is localized and files are stored separately on one or more servers. And root and admin users only can have full access to the system.

Windows 7 improved on the aforementioned security aspect somewhat from XP, but still has a ways to go.

Lastlly, modern OS's are supposed to provide shared variable computing or shared object computing, where shared static variables (or objects) can be created by anyone anywhere in the world and then be made immediately accessible to anyone else in the world via permissions.

This type of shared resource computing is what one would expect in an era of cloud-level computing, yet MS has yet to go there (and likely won't in the next 10 years).

If there's one thing that MS doesn't do, it's innovate.

I suppose, from a consumer point of view, you would recommend Chrome OS, then.

The big problem with that, though, is what happens if you don't have internet access? Your computer is no more useful than a rock.

 

[Oozlefinch]

The whole Windows OS is an archaic joke, and so is Linux and MacOS and even FreeBSD, though the latter is currently the most advanced server OS, w/Linux leading as the desktop/embedded OS.

The way a modern OS is SUPPOSED to work, first of all, is NOT to have all the files and OS libraries sitting on a user's local disk. That's dumb. Common libraries, APIs, and utilities should be stored in the cloud. And when a user logs on to his session, he's just supposed to get runnable processes that he owns, while the file system is physically remote and/or distributed, with the illusion of only one file system being created to the user.

This is nice, however you are missing one major dynamic here.

The user.

Most computer users are stupid. And I mean really stupid. They could not tell the difference between a kernel and a piece of un-popped popcorn.

I would say that 85% of the computers users of the world are pretty much morons when it comes to computers. They just want to turn them on and have them work. And trust me, my wife is one of those. I often find it hard not to laugh when she does not want to accept some basic things (like why there are so many cords in the back of my computer, or why she can't simply put the old XP hard drive from her old HP into the new computer I built for her and have it work).

Fine, you are a power user. You use Linux (or some flavor thereof), and can't understand why most people use it. Well, I used UNIX in the late 1970's-early 1980's, and I use Linux today. And I am also aware that it is far beyond the abilities of the majority of computer users. And they do not want to learn how to use it, they just want their computer to work.

I sold computers in the early 1990's, and saw my sales increase when Win3.1 came out. Not that is was nessicarily the best GUI, but it was everywhere. And it made computers easy to use for the common people.

Here is a great example, my dad. He is close to 70, and has a laptop. He used to take it to his local computer store every year when his Norton expired, and they charged him $100 for the newest Norton and to install it. I was rather disgusted by this, and removed it, installing AVG. And every time a new version comes out, I talk my dad through upgrading it to the newest version (Tell it YES dad, say OK dad, it is fine, let it reboot dad). This is the norm for people who are not comfortable or familiar with computers.

The details you go into there may be nice, but it is so far beyond what the "regular user" is familiar with, you might as well be talking Sanskrit to them. Most computer users can't even explain the difference between Hyperthreading and Multitasking. And you want them to understand details like that? You are outta your freaking mind.

After all, there is a damned good reason that even many flavors of Linux have removed everybody's right to delete ROOT. Imagine a world where everybody has full and complete control of their computers, and deletes ROOT.

And who says innovation is good? Nobody really "innovates", they simply make changes upon what came before. And innovation is a double-edged sword. Some innovations are good, some are really-really stupid.

Because it could be very well argued that "Windows 8" is a real true innovation. Not a good one, but it is an innovation. Not all innovation is good, just as not all change is good.

 

[PeteEU]

After all, there is a damned good reason that even many flavors of Linux have removed everybody's right to delete ROOT. Imagine a world where everybody has full and complete control of their computers, and deletes ROOT.

Hehe reminds me of my aunt. In the late 1980s she had a Windows 3.1 machine.. I think it was an early 286 but cant be sure. But what I do remember, was that she called me one day and said it did not work. So I went to her place and to my shock... it did not work. Now the question was why, so I asked her what she was doing when it crashed and she said that she was in Wordperfect 5.1 saving her work.

Well I got my dos discs out and fiddled with the machine and realized that certain critical dos files were missing on her harddrive. Some how she had managed to delete the hidden file IO.sys and one more that I cant remember... maybe MSDOS.sys.

Point is, they were hidden.. she could not see them, not even in Wordperfect 5.1, but some how she managed to delete them. To this day I am baffled on how she managed to do it.

The biggest problem with computers is not the OS, but the person behind the screen

 

[Mycroft]

I, and others, have said that Win8 was developed to move the user interaction experience further along...to eventually replace the mouse and keyboard as the primary interface device. Some have said this will never happen.

Well, new information has been released that shows that MS is, indeed, going in that direction. The new Xbox One has been released and it includes the Kinect system built into the device. But there's more...the next-gen Kinect system build into the Xbox One is also coming to Windows.

Xbox One won't be the only one getting in on the next generation of motion-tracking – the new version of Kinect will also be coming to Windows PCs.

Kinect Program Manager Scott Evans told Shacknews that Microsoft "will bring [Kinect] to PC", adding that there will be more information "soon".

While a firmer date would be nice (though the omission is unsurprising as the new console hasn't even been given a release date) we now have confirmation from the horse's mouth that the general Xbox-Windows relationship will still be going strong on the One.
Nice little gesture

While still good news, this isn't all that surprising; the current Kinect made its way to PC in early 2012, just over a year after its Xbox 360 release.

The new Kinect, however, has taken a serious step up over its predecessor. Simply saying "Xbox on" will now boot up the console, and if last night's demonstration was anything to go by, Kinect instantly responds to voice controls and motion gestures.

Microsoft says Kinect 2 detects motion in just 12 billionths of a second, while the sensor has a resolution of 1080p.
Xbox One's next-gen Kinect is coming to Windows | News | TechRadar

This means that Win8's tiled Modern UI...as well as the desktop...will soon be controlled by motion and voice. In addition, I predict that facial recognition will be developed for the PC and for other devices. Just think...your desktop, laptop, tablet or phone will be able to recognize you as the user and tailor itself to you...the user...and you will be able to use voice and motion commands to do what normally takes keyboard input and mouse pointing and clicking.

To be sure, this won't happen overnight but it WILL happen and MS will be right in the middle of it. There will be many who will resist...those who don't want to do something new. But the children of today will grow up with this new technology and will demand further refinements and new technology. The rest of us can either embrace this stuff...or fall by the wayside. Myself? I'm excited.

 

[fmw]

Good morning, HAL, how are you today?

 

[clownboy]

Plenty of things look cool in the imagination, the Dick Tracey watch for example, but fail in reality. Such will be the fate of motion and voice replacing manual input. Works great under controlled conditions or in video games, total fail in an office or server room environment.

At the end the most dismal of failures comes from not offerring the user the choice.

 

[Mycroft]

Plenty of things look cool in the imagination, the Dick Tracey watch for example, but fail in reality. Such will be the fate of motion and voice replacing manual input. Works great under controlled conditions or in video games, total fail in an office or server room environment.

At the end the most dismal of failures comes from not offerring the user the choice.

Oh...you'll have a choice...just like you do right now with Win8. Just like you always had a choice to use the old command line interface if you didn't want to use a mouse. But eventually...just as hardly anyone uses command lines anymore...hardly anyone will use a mouse and keyboard.

Go ahead and resist. Keep using the mouse. Eventually, your children...and their children...will look at you and think, "How strange...".

 

[Oozlefinch]

Oh...you'll have a choice...just like you do right now with Win8. Just like you always had a choice to use the old command line interface if you didn't want to use a mouse. But eventually...just as hardly anyone uses command lines anymore...hardly anyone will use a mouse and keyboard.

Go ahead and resist. Keep using the mouse. Eventually, your children...and their children...will look at you and think, "How strange...".

Sorry, call me an uber-geek, but this immediately sprang to mind when I read this.

 

[obvious Child]

hardly anyone will use a mouse and keyboard.

And how exactly do you propose that they will write papers? By voice? Ever try doing that? Heck, you can do that now with Android 4.2. It's also horrible. Slow. Inefficient. Not necessarily because of the software, but because of how people think. Many people, myself included type faster than we can talk or think. Giving up a keyboard would likely lead to mass inefficiencies so much that people grab the keyboard back. As for mouse, I can see that going if either eye or hand recognition gets good enough. But data input on glass is garbage. As well as via audio.

 

[obvious Child]

These are Dell OptiPlex GX series computers. They look similar to the Dimension in a photo, but are much larger and better built. We sold hundreds of these every year, and could barely keep them in stock. They are rugged, well built, and start with an MSRP if around $2,000.

You wouldn't believe how many of these things have PSU issues after warranties. This place I know that refurbs computers for poor folks has stacks of off lease Dells and every single one has the exact same problem of bad PSU.

As for desktops, I'd rather just build it myself. Though it's very hard to match the pricing for a low end system. The Windows license alone makes that near impossible.

But for enthusiast, it's much better (and often cheaper) to simply build your own.

 

[Mycroft]

And how exactly do you propose that they will write papers? By voice? Ever try doing that? Heck, you can do that now with Android 4.2. It's also horrible. Slow. Inefficient. Not necessarily because of the software, but because of how people think. Many people, myself included type faster than we can talk or think. Giving up a keyboard would likely lead to mass inefficiencies so much that people grab the keyboard back. As for mouse, I can see that going if either eye or hand recognition gets good enough. But data input on glass is garbage. As well as via audio.

It's a good thing the innovative thinkers in the world don't think like you do. If they did, we wouldn't even have mice right now.

 

[Oozlefinch]

You wouldn't believe how many of these things have PSU issues after warranties. This place I know that refurbs computers for poor folks has stacks of off lease Dells and every single one has the exact same problem of bad PSU.

As for desktops, I'd rather just build it myself. Though it's very hard to match the pricing for a low end system. The Windows license alone makes that near impossible.

But for enthusiast, it's much better (and often cheaper) to simply build your own.

Yes, I would. We almost always replaced the power supplies when we got them, using a Dremmel to cut the back part so we could install standard 500 watt power supplies instead of their proprietary 350 watt models. I also recommend to people to have computers custom built, no question about that. And I built a fair amount of systems as well.

 

[obvious Child]

It's a good thing the innovative thinkers in the world don't think like you do. If they did, we wouldn't even have mice right now.

I point out how you are wrong and that's the best you got? You do realize in Star Trek, they still use a form of a keyboard no? Go watch any of the series. Someone is using keyboards.

And tactile response on glass seeks to mimic a keyboard. Until there's a direct mind to machine for input, there isn't going to be a faster method of entry. And the mouse was a much better way of doing things. My family had an old Commodore. When we got a Windows 3.1, the mouse was so much better.

 

[obvious Child]

Yes, I would. We almost always replaced the power supplies when we got them, using a Dremmel to cut the back part so we could install standard 500 watt power supplies instead of their proprietary 350 watt models. I also recommend to people to have computers custom built, no question about that. And I built a fair amount of systems as well.

Hard to get the price down on low end models. When you can get systems for $250, self building is essentially impossible to match that price. I was looking at building replacement desktops for my parents (as their systems are old) but they don't need much but I cannot match the pricing on low end models that Dell offers.

 

[Mycroft]

I point out how you are wrong and that's the best you got? You do realize in Star Trek, they still use a form of a keyboard no? Go watch any of the series. Someone is using keyboards.

And tactile response on glass seeks to mimic a keyboard. Until there's a direct mind to machine for input, there isn't going to be a faster method of entry. And the mouse was a much better way of doing things. My family had an old Commodore. When we got a Windows 3.1, the mouse was so much better.

You are kidding me, right? Star Trek? Dude...that was created before there even WAS a personal computer. And your Commodore example only proves my point. The mouse was better than the command line. That's called innovation.

 

[obvious Child]

You are kidding me, right? Star Trek? Dude...that was created before there even WAS a personal computer. And your Commodore example only proves my point. The mouse was better than the command line. That's called innovation.

And how does my disbelief that the keyboard will go away mean I wouldn't have supported the use of the mouse? Command Line is clunky and slow. And clearly you've never heard of the various other series, or ST movies. Most of which were made partially on a computer. Point stills stands, keyboard ain't going anywhere.

 

[Oozlefinch]

Hard to get the price down on low end models. When you can get systems for $250, self building is essentially impossible to match that price. I was looking at building replacement desktops for my parents (as their systems are old) but they don't need much but I cannot match the pricing on low end models that Dell offers.

That is why you can compromise.

Buy a model other then Dell, and swap the case. Then as it ages you replace pieces as needed.

 

[Oozlefinch]

You are kidding me, right? Star Trek? Dude...that was created before there even WAS a personal computer. And your Commodore example only proves my point. The mouse was better than the command line. That's called innovation.

Not really when you think about it.

Even in TOS, they had 100% accurate voice recognition, where you could have a 2-way conversation with the computer. Yet they still used keyboards and hard signatures.

We even see this in the military today. We all have "Smart Cards" as ID for most needs, so e-signatures largely replace pen and paper. But on some forms a real signature is still required, an e-signature is not valid.

 

[obvious Child]

Not really when you think about it.

Even in TOS, they had 100% accurate voice recognition, where you could have a 2-way conversation with the computer. Yet they still used keyboards and hard signatures.

DS9 had everyone from Klingons to Ferengi using some form of keyboard. Quark's bar had data entry. Voyager had command stations with keyboards (hell even the Holographic Doctor uses them!). So did that awful series with the Quantum Leap guy. And the same command stations exist on Next Generation.

And most people can type faster than they talk. Efficiency from 100% accurate voice recognition won't be as efficient as some form of keyboard. Now a direct Mind To Machine is another story. Plus no typos that way!

 

[obvious Child]

That is why you can compromise.

Buy a model other then Dell, and swap the case. Then as it ages you replace pieces as needed.

One problem is that many of the low end have custom motherboard holes or don't quite line up on a standard ATX case. Notice this on a couple of the OEMs.

 

[Oozlefinch]

One problem is that many of the low end have custom motherboard holes or don't quite line up on a standard ATX case. Notice this on a couple of the OEMs.

I have to admit that is not a problem that I have run into since the ATX standard became the norm about 15 years ago. I have never run into this issue, no matter what motherboard I was putting into a case (as long as the case followed the ATX standard). After all, the maker of most motherboards for the name brands are the same ones the rest of us use. HP and Compaq quite often use simply rebranded ASUS boards.

The only issue I have ever had was with Dell, because they do not use the standard front panel connections. I have pinned them out, but it was a major pain in the butt and I would not do it again.

 

[American]

DS9 had everyone from Klingons to Ferengi using some form of keyboard. Quark's bar had data entry. Voyager had command stations with keyboards (hell even the Holographic Doctor uses them!). So did that awful series with the Quantum Leap guy. And the same command stations exist on Next Generation.

And most people can type faster than they talk. Efficiency from 100% accurate voice recognition won't be as efficient as some form of keyboard. Now a direct Mind To Machine is another story. Plus no typos that way!

Typing in an incorrect command at Warp 10.....

:shock: