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Michigan shooting suspect's parents willfully disregarded signs that their son was a threat

Since the Second Amendment protects all bearable arms in common use for lawful purposes, how can you support the Second Amendment and support bans on classes of bearable arms in common use for lawful purposes?
because to gun banners-reasonable gun controls mean banning just about everything but if you can own a single shot bolt action 22 rimfire, your second amendment rights are intact and those limitations are "reasonable". TO gun banners-reasonable means something that harasses gun owners as much as possible but is not so extreme, that the courts will immediately strike it down
 
I'd say, just as a neutral observer, it looks to me as though Nolan is more persuasive than you are Turtle.
I feel Nolan comes across as more knowledgable and believable on this issue.
We could really use some meaningful and comprehensive gun control imo.
right there you lost the argument. you're one of the most extreme anti gun posters on this board
 
I'd say, just as a neutral observer, it looks to me as though Nolan is more persuasive than you are Turtle.
I feel Nolan comes across as more knowledgable and believable on this issue.
As long as "why was this law determined to be Constitutional" isn't a requirement for you.
We could really use some meaningful and comprehensive gun control imo.
I noticed that you failed to add "Constitutional, effective and enforceable" as requirements for these new laws.

What laws do you suggest?
 
As long as "why was this law determined to be Constitutional" isn't a requirement for you.

I noticed that you failed to add "Constitutional, effective and enforceable" as requirements for these new laws.

What laws do you suggest?
Glad you asked Rucker.
I feel we aren't filtering out and vetting our fabulous gun nuts nearly enough.
There should probably be some psychological testing involved before a person can be deemed fit to own a firearm.
And thats just for starters.
Civilians shouldn't have these Mass Murder Machines like these AR15s and such with the 30 round magazines in residential neighborhoods.
I dont think reasonable people want that around their families.
 
Glad you asked Rucker.
I feel we aren't filtering out and vetting our fabulous gun nuts nearly enough.
There should probably be some psychological testing involved before a person can be deemed fit to own a firearm.
And thats just for starters.
Civilians shouldn't have these Mass Murder Machines like these AR15s and such with the 30 round magazines in residential neighborhoods.
I dont think reasonable people want that around their families.
1) unconstitutional and would be subject to massive abuse. There are many left-wingers who claim anyone who wants to own a gun for self defense is "mentally ill"
2) calling AR 15s mass murder machines-given there was no "mass murders" with any for the first 50 years they were sold to the public, proves your perspective is so extreme, it cannot be taken seriously
3) your definition of reasonable flies in the face that those are the most popular centerfire rifles in the USA.
 
Since the Second Amendment protects all bearable arms in common use for lawful purposes, how can you support the Second Amendment and support bans on classes of bearable arms in common use for lawful purposes?
Nonsense.

What "bearable arms"? Machine guns?

What lawful purposes? Who decides what purposes are lawful and what are not?

The Supreme court record is mixed, some gun control measures upheld, others overturned.

What is undeniable is that the rights protected under the 2nd, like all rights, are not absolute.
 
Glad you asked Rucker.
I feel we aren't filtering out and vetting our fabulous gun nuts nearly enough.
There should probably be some psychological testing involved before a person can be deemed fit to own a firearm.
We have 30,000 board certified psychiatrists and about 100,000 licensed psychologists, not all of whom have the training to determine if someone is sane enough (however that is defined), not all of whom would want to grant a certification that would allow anyone regardless of mental health to buy a gun, and virtually none of whom have much available time in their practice to take on new patients. 100 million of them. You do the math.
And thats just for starters.
The word you're looking for is "non-starter".


Civilians shouldn't have these Mass Murder Machines like these AR15s and such with the 30 round magazines in residential neighborhoods.
Civilians have owned magazine fed semiautomatic rifles since 1905. Civilians owned AR-15s for 48 years before a civilian ever used one in a mass shooting.

We've had mass shootings with "assault weapons", semiautomatic rifles not classfied as "assault weapons", bolt action rifles, lever action rifles, semiautomatic shotguns, pump action shotguns, double barrel shotguns, pistols, revolvers, .22 rifles and .22 pistols. Evidently these are all Mass Murder Machines.

AR-15s and 30 round magazines are bearable arms in common use for lawful purposes and thus protected by the Second Amendment (see DC v Heller and Caetano v Massachusetts). How do you expect any ban to be Constitutional?
I dont think reasonable people want that around their families.
They should be more concerned with the cars in their driveways, the knives in their kitchen and the hammers in their garages. To be frank, they should be more concerned with the stairs, chairs and bathtubs in the homes, all of which cause more deaths every single year than have ever been caused by someone using an AR-15 in a mass shooting since 1964, according to CDC and Mother Jones data.
 
I am going to explain this to you one more time then you are on your own
I’ve already corrected you on all of that. This is extremely basic constitutional law.
 
I’ve already corrected you on all of that. This is extremely basic constitutional law.
And what I said is a fact.

You can't refute it. You are just playing games.
 
You’ve been shown that it’s not.

I have refuted it lol.
when someone claims he supports the second amendment and the RKBA but supports governments banning semi auto rifles and normal capacity magazines and preventing citizens from buying ammo on line, you should realize you aren't going to get much in the way of a truthful response
 
when someone claims he supports the second amendment and the RKBA but supports governments banning semi auto rifles and normal capacity magazines and preventing citizens from buying ammo on line, you should realize you aren't going to get much in the way of a truthful response
There you go again. Most gun owners support the 2nd and reasonable gun control.
 
There you go again. Most gun owners support the 2nd and reasonable gun control.
your definition of reasonable gun control is extreme anti gun nonsense that most gun owners oppose. you think the government has the proper power to ban all sorts of guns-whether they are often used in crime or not, and irrespective of whether they are commonly kept for lawful purposes. You also think government can limit how many rounds you have in your gun and you refuse to tell us when that limit becomes unconstitutional. Probably because you want to be able to constantly reduce the number
 
your definition of reasonable gun control is extreme anti gun nonsense that most gun owners oppose. you think the government has the proper power to ban all sorts of guns-whether they are often used in crime or not, and irrespective of whether they are commonly kept for lawful purposes. You also think government can limit how many rounds you have in your gun and you refuse to tell us when that limit becomes unconstitutional. Probably because you want to be able to constantly reduce the number
Nope.

My view of reasonable gun control is mainstream. I am in the majority. Even among gun owners.
 
Nope.

My view of reasonable gun control is mainstream. I am in the majority. Even among gun owners.
most gun owners do not support banning semi auto rifles or giving the government the power to limit guns to one or two shots. and both of your schemes violate the holdings in several supreme court cases.

nothing you support is reasonable,
 
most gun owners do not support banning semi auto rifles or giving the government the power to limit guns to one or two shots. and both of your schemes violate the holdings in several supreme court cases.

nothing you support is reasonable,
There you go again.

Who said anything about limiting it to one or two shots?

You are lying again.

Last time you made that absurd claim you made a fool of yourself and here you are making the exact same absurd claim all over again.

Round and round you go.
 
There you go again.

Who said anything about limiting it to one or two shots?

You are lying again.

Last time you made that absurd claim you made a fool of yourself and here you are making the exact same absurd claim all over again.

Round and round you go.
1) you think the government should have the power to limit magazine size
2) you never will tell us when the limit becomes "Unreasonable"
3) you don't understand the concept of what powers the government properly has
4) you are on record wanting to ban semi auto rifles

you also spew complete bovine excrement such as claiming you know I am not an attorney based on your completely infantile understanding of the law
 
1) you think the government should have the power to limit magazine size
2) you never will tell us when the limit becomes "Unreasonable"
3) you don't understand the concept of what powers the government properly has
4) you are on record wanting to ban semi auto rifles

you also spew complete bovine excrement such as claiming you know I am not an attorney based on your completely infantile understanding of the law
Do you seriously not remember that we covered all that already? Several times.

And your whole argument is just more proof that you are not an attorney.

If you misrepresented your opponents position so blatantly, and employed such faulty logic, in a court filing or courtroom the judge would scold you, and possibly sanction you, or question your competence to practice law.
 
Do you seriously not remember that we covered all that already? Several times.

And your whole argument is just more proof that you are not an attorney.

If you misrepresented your opponents position so blatantly, and employed such faulty logic, in a court filing or courtroom the judge would scold you, and possibly sanction you, or question your competence to practice law.
Keep digging your hole deeper. you want to keep trying to pretend that someone who thinks all semi auto rifles should be banned (less than 2% of all murders) and that the government has the proper power to limit magazine capacity to whatever it wants, is a "second amendment supporter" is so stupid I am laughing.
 
Keep digging your hole deeper. you want to keep trying to pretend that someone who thinks all semi auto rifles should be banned (less than 2% of all murders) and that the government has the proper power to limit magazine capacity to whatever it wants, is a "second amendment supporter" is so stupid I am laughing.
Wow.

Round and round you go.

No way you were an attorney.
 
Wow.

Round and round you go.

No way you were an attorney.
you keep spewing bullshit you cannot possibly prove. what will you give to the site if I prove I am. is 1000 dollars donation too much money for you? You spew this nonsense because you have no valid argument
 
you keep spewing bullshit you cannot possibly prove. what will you give to the site if I prove I am. is 1000 dollars donation too much money for you? You spew this nonsense because you have no valid argument

See Turtle, this is a case where the parents bought a "legal gun", and then their kid was a "good guy with a gun"...and then he wasnt a "good guy with a gun" anymore.

Do you see how that happens? If the "legal gun" would have never been there, then the "illegal gun" would have never been there either. See? Thats how thee things OFTEN go down. Very very often.
I am here to help you, to inform you.
 
See Turtle, this is a case where the parents bought a "legal gun", and then their kid was a "good guy with a gun"...and then he wasnt a "good guy with a gun" anymore.

Do you see how that happens? If the "legal gun" would have never been there, then the "illegal gun" would have never been there either. See? Thats how thee things OFTEN go down. Very very often.
I am here to help you, to inform you.
which is your argument for banning all guns, even though few of the 400 million guns are ever used in crime. There is nothing you can post on this subject that I am not aware of. You gun banners pretend you actually understand this issue better than those of us who have been long time shooters, and students of everything that has to do with firearms: your position is based purely on politics-you start off hating gun ownership because gun owners tend to oppose your leftist agenda, and then you try to bone up on information that you can use to defend the facade you raise as a pretext for the real reasons behind your anti gun agenda
 
you keep spewing bullshit you cannot possibly prove. what will you give to the site if I prove I am. is 1000 dollars donation too much money for you? You spew this nonsense because you have no valid argument
The way you argue is proof positive that you were never an attorney.
 
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