MH17 pilot audio and flight data recorder, why is this not public? (1 Viewer)

[mike2810]

Is it not true that The Dutch Safety Board has the lead for the international investigation of MH17?

If you were heading up an international investigation would you want any team member to release findings not cleared before the investigation is done?
The Dutch are not the NTSB. Is not the NTSB very particular in what is released and when?

Sometimes people expect to much to soon. Unless they care to solve or have the case solved through the internet.

Netherlands takes lead in MH17 crash investigation as bodies arrive home (PHOTOS) ? RT News

 

[Fledermaus]

You replied to a post by DifferentDrummr, a post which states :"Then again, even the Pentagon discloses considerably more detail than the Russian or Ukrainian defense ministries ever do" with saying:" But, but, but it is ALL GOVERNMENT LIES... Even when corroborated by facts and evidence."

So I'm asking you to share the facts and evidence that were presented by the intelligent, fact based and logical counter theory. regarding the MH17 case? simple.

Fallen.

I have no clue what the "Pentagon evidence" is in regards to MH17...

I don't think I have read anything coming from the Pentagon in this case.

I was channeling my inner Conspiracy Hack. You know... Conspiracy Hack as in claiming EVERYTHING the Pentagon would release is a lie, even when backed by facts and evidence.... You noticed the Conspiracy Hack hyperbole in the "ALL GOVERNMENT LIES" statement? Not EVERY statement made by the Government or the Pentagon are lies.

 

[Fallenangel]

I have no clue what the "Pentagon evidence" is in regards to MH17...

I don't think I have read anything coming from the Pentagon in this case.

I was channeling my inner Conspiracy Hack. You know... Conspiracy Hack as in claiming EVERYTHING the Pentagon would release is a lie, even when backed by facts and evidence.... You noticed the Conspiracy Hack hyperbole in the "ALL GOVERNMENT LIES" statement? Not EVERY statement made by the Government or the Pentagon are lies.

So no "pentagon facts or evidence", I see. Other evidence then?

But before you start, let me guess the list of "your" evidence:
* "Updates from Strelkov" vk page post
* SBU recordings
* Smoke trail photo
* Lugansk BUK video by SBU
* Zuhres video screens
* Shakhtarsk-Torez video & Torez photo
* US state department trajectory image

...did I forget anything?

Next time before you channel your "inner Conspiracy Hack" please keep in mind that besides the obvious CTers, there are people that want to know who shot that plane, and what actually happened on that day.

Fallen.

 

[Fledermaus]

So no "pentagon facts or evidence", I see. Other evidence then?

But before you start, let me guess the list of "your" evidence:
* "Updates from Strelkov" vk page post
* SBU recordings
* Smoke trail photo
* Lugansk BUK video by SBU
* Zuhres video screens
* Shakhtarsk-Torez video & Torez photo
* US state department trajectory image

...did I forget anything?

Next time before you channel your "inner Conspiracy Hack" please keep in mind that besides the obvious CTers, there are people that want to know who shot that plane, and what actually happened on that day.

Fallen.

And lets differentiate the two.

One type of poster posts from known BS sites and rejects everything out of hand that disagrees as "Government propaganda", "Western Mainstream Brainstream Media", vague references to "US Federal Reserve", etc.

One type of poster doesn't.

Who is more likely to find the Truth?

 

[Fallenangel]

And lets differentiate the two.

One type of poster posts from known BS sites and rejects everything out of hand that disagrees as "Government propaganda", "Western Mainstream Brainstream Media", vague references to "US Federal Reserve", etc.

One type of poster doesn't.

Who is more likely to find the Truth?

I don't care what "type of poster" you consider yourself to be or what bs you read or do not read.

If your "evidence" list is the same or similar to the one I presented above you are way off course from the path to the "truth".

Fallen.

 

[Fledermaus]

I don't care what "type of poster" you consider yourself to be or what bs you read or do not read.

If your "evidence" list is the same or similar to the one I presented above you are way off course from the path to the "truth".

Fallen.

Fair enough... I do not care that you do not care.

But hey, an airliner shot down over rebel territory, by weapons known to be in rebel hands, admitted by the rebels, the crash site held by rebels.... Nah, can't be the rebels. Right?

 

[mike2810]

FallenA.

Please share what sources you use to gather information regarding MH17.

 

[Fallenangel]

Fair enough... I do not care that you do not care.

:shrug:

But hey, an airliner shot down over rebel territory

True. I hope that you are familiar with the concept of shooting targets with missiles not directly over your head.

by weapons known to be in rebel hands,

Partially true.

admitted by the rebels,

False.

the crash site held by rebels....

And?

Nah, can't be the rebels. Right?

Of course it can, but lets make another list.

Hey, an airliner was shot down by missiles that have a large range and depending on what were the active components of the BUK system this range can reach several dozen kilometers.
Hey, Ukrainian forces also have BUK systems in the ATO zone.
Hey, Ukrainian SBU and gov. officials were and are caught lying almost on a daily basis.
Hey, Ukrainian forces launched an attack towards the approx. area of the crash despite the promise of a ceasefire zone around the crash site...

I can add so many more "heys" to that list, but your ignorance regarding the situation is simply amazing (as seen by the "they admitted it" statements) yet you somehow try to preach to others (even if they are CTers) on what is true or false.

Fallen.

 

[Fallenangel]

FallenA.

Please share what sources you use to gather information regarding MH17.

The sources for my information are me, and the research I've done myself on the topic - if you have specific questions regarding specific topics I don't mind answering them if I won't know the answer I would simply state that I don't know it.

I follow the events and the figures involved in the Ukrainian crisis very closely since the start of the events on Maidan - you can see threads that I started on that theme in the Europe section of DP.

Because of the above I just can't stand hacks that read somewhere, something in a news paper and now keep regurgitating it indefinitely, such as for instance the "rebels admitted they shot down the plane" claims.


Fallen.

 

[mike2810]

The sources for my information are me, and the research I've done myself on the topic - if you have specific questions regarding specific topics I don't mind answering them if I won't know the answer I would simply state that I don't know it.

I follow the events and the figures involved in the Ukrainian crisis very closely since the start of the events on Maidan - you can see threads that I started on that theme in the Europe section of DP.

Because of the above I just can't stand hacks that read somewhere, something in a news paper and now keep regurgitating it indefinitely, such as for instance the "rebels admitted they shot down the plane" claims.

if the source of the information is you. Then your on scene doing an investigation. Or you are using information from newspapers, magazines, web sites, blogs.


Fallen.

I can't stand when someone makes statements that cannot be backed up. For example I asked HD for the source for the information of his post stating the sat data images by the US was altered. HD most likely will not provide the source. That in itself makes his statement suspect.

That is why I ask you to provide your information source.

 

[Fallenangel]

I can't stand when someone makes statements that cannot be backed up. For example I asked HD for the source for the information of his post stating the sat data images by the US was altered. HD most likely will not provide the source. That in itself makes his statement suspect.

That is why I ask you to provide your information source.

For which specific topic or claim?
There isn't a single book, article or site which covers it all.
Even if there were I would prefer not to trust a single source but to search for multiple sources from all the ranges of the "pro & anti Kiev spectrum" (from SBU released info to to Anna news) verifying the facts based on my own knowledge and experience.

Fallen.

 

[mike2810]

For which specific topic or claim?
There isn't a single book, article or site which covers it all.
Even if there were I would prefer not to trust a single source but to search for multiple sources from all the ranges of the "pro & anti Kiev spectrum" (from SBU released info to to Anna news) verifying the facts based on my own knowledge and experience.

Fallen.

Your dodging. What do you thing the thread is about based on the OP?

Then list a few of your many sources you use regarding the downing of MH17.

 

[Fallenangel]

Your dodging. What do you thing the thread is about based on the OP?

Then list a few of your many sources you use regarding the downing of MH17.

Dodging of what?!?!

Inside the MH17 topic there are various claims and things that are often not directly related, and which originated from various sources and can be verified/dis-proven via various sources.
Such as:
* claims that rebels admitted the downing
* claim that rebels had BUk systems
* claims that Ukrainian forces had BUK systems in the ATO zone
* ...so on and on.


For a very partial list of information sources lets name these:
Official sources:
Ukrainian SBU official statements and released information
Russian ministry of defense officially released statements and information
US state department released statements and information
Ukrainian SNBO
etc...

Journalists:
Hans de Vreij
Anatolii Sharii
Veli-Pekka Kivimäki
etc...

Newspapers and other news outlets:
Kiev Post
BBC
icorpus.ru
inforesist.org
etc...

Blogs and forums:
twower livejournal
ukraine@war blog
militaryphotos.com forum
etc...

You want more sources?

Fallen.

 

[Thoreau72]

would you provide the source of your information that the US provided altered sat images?

Since you didn't in your post. Do you have something to hide?

People are writing about it at sites you hate. Why should I waste the time mentioning names when all you will do is call them liars?

Your MO is well known Mike--you believe anything from the mouth of the Pentagon and the MSM, and you deny anything from other sources.

 

[Thoreau72]

Dodging of what?!?!

Inside the MH17 topic there are various claims and things that are often not directly related, and which originated from various sources and can be verified/dis-proven via various sources.
Such as:
* claims that rebels admitted the downing
* claim that rebels had BUk systems
* claims that Ukrainian forces had BUK systems in the ATO zone
* ...so on and on.


For a very partial list of information sources lets name these:
Official sources:
Ukrainian SBU official statements and released information
Russian ministry of defense officially released statements and information
US state department released statements and information
Ukrainian SNBO
etc...

Journalists:
Hans de Vreij
Anatolii Sharii
Veli-Pekka Kivimäki
etc...

Newspapers and other news outlets:
Kiev Post
BBC
icorpus.ru
inforesist.org
etc...

Blogs and forums:
twower livejournal
ukraine@war blog
militaryphotos.com forum
etc...

You want more sources?

Fallen.

Thank you.

Mike incorporates all the qualities of the 3 monkeys sitting next to each other--eyes covered, ears plugged and lips sealed.

He considers the known liars at the Pentagon and the MSM to be fountains of information and truth.

So it is, US of A, circa 2014. We have the government we deserve.

 

[Thoreau72]

This right here is two funny. To imply that the pentagon controls western media is just ridiculous. I goes a long long way in proving just how much cerdability you have.
Or maybe you are right and the pentagon does control the media and that is why there are never any reporting on things the military would rather not be known. Oh wait that happens all the time.
Yeah like I figured just more of your conspiracy nonsense. So how is your whole mini nuke 911 theory coming.

If mine is two funny, yours is three funny, four funny and five funny, all combined. :lamo

 

[Lord of Planar]

If mine is two funny, yours is three funny, four funny and five funny, all combined. :lamo

I don't think very many people take you serious. There is no way the media is controlled by the pentagon. The media reports as it likes for sensationalism and profit. They don't care about the facts.

 

[Thoreau72]

I don't think very many people take you serious. There is no way the media is controlled by the pentagon. The media reports as it likes for sensationalism and profit. They don't care about the facts.

You are quite naïve LOP, but that's OK. eace

Don't feel like the Lone Ranger

 

[Lord of Planar]

You are quite naïve LOP, but that's OK. eace

Don't feel like the Lone Ranger

Have any examples of proof you wish to offer?

 

[Thoreau72]

Have any examples of proof you wish to offer?

About half your posts here demonstrate your naïvete. eace

 

[Lord of Planar]

About half your posts here demonstrate your naïvete. eace

Believe as you wish.

Since you hold zero importance to me, your opinions about me don't matter. I'm sorry however that you think the way you do. Must be hard to live that way.

 

[mike2810]

People are writing about it at sites you hate. Why should I waste the time mentioning names when all you will do is call them liars?

Your MO is well known Mike--you believe anything from the mouth of the Pentagon and the MSM, and you deny anything from other sources.

Thanks for such a profound response.

We now know that no sources need to be stated in discussing this issue or others with HD.

By the way, your continue jumping to conclusions about posters is noted. Ever think (nope you don't), that by providing your source that one may agree with you.

Have I stated anything about MH17 other than the Dutch have the lead. Unlike you, my views on what happened is still open. So thanks for providing nothing of value HD.

 

[DaveFagan]

Have any examples of proof you wish to offer?

The Church Committee investigated the Media in 1977 and found at least 400 CIA assets in newsrooms. Gosh, I wonder why the CIA would want agents/assets/operatives in newsrooms. The CIA has grown exponentially since then and if you will just write the names down of the reporters whose articles are suspect, you will see the pattern and know which newrooms are untrustworthy. Start with Judith Miller and the New York Times. Try the Associated Press and figure why they called Hugo Chavez a dictator when he had been elected 7 times. Note who always writes bad about Cuba, Venezuela, Nicaragua, Ecuador, Libya, N. Korea and identify the bylines and then see if a pattern develops.

 

[Lord of Planar]

The Church Committee investigated the Media in 1977 and found at least 400 CIA assets in newsrooms. Gosh, I wonder why the CIA would want agents/assets/operatives in newsrooms. The CIA has grown exponentially since then and if you will just write the names down of the reporters whose articles are suspect, you will see the pattern and know which newrooms are untrustworthy. Start with Judith Miller and the New York Times. Try the Associated Press and figure why they called Hugo Chavez a dictator when he had been elected 7 times. Note who always writes bad about Cuba, Venezuela, Nicaragua, Ecuador, Libya, N. Korea and identify the bylines and then see if a pattern develops.

Do you think decades ago the same things are happening?

Do you even know what a CIA "asset" is?

Forget I asked. I should know better than to respond to you CT guys.

 

[Thoreau72]

LOP

Our Central Intelligence Agency has manipulating the media down to an art form, if you know what I mean. Decades of experience.

eace