MH17 pilot audio and flight data recorder, why is this not public? (2 Viewers)

[DaveFagan]

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article39343.htm

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article39341.htm

The MH17 flight data recorder and cockpit audio tapes have been in UK hands since July 26th and still no info released. When the other Malaysian plane went down, within two days we had tower communications audio with the pilot. In this case that would be in the hands of Ukraine in Kiev. The USA has the satellite tracks over Ukraine for sure because they reported 3 ballistic massile launches by Ukraine. Photos have turned up all over the Internet showing the fuselage in the cockpit riddled with what appear to be approximately 30mm entry and exit holes of shrapnel. Witnesses on the ground said there was no missile just two planes in the air and then two explosions and down comes the 777. The audio promulgated by Ukraine seems suspicious and there are many web sites that show why it appears faked. Questions are requiring answers and should be readily available.

Why hasn't Ukraine released the tower audio with MH17?

Why hasn't the USA released sarellite imagery showing a launch or launcher?

Officials have had the MH17 black boxes for 11 days and we have heard no flight data or pilot audio. Why not?

Is it possible that this is a well planned false flag operation by covert agencies?

Why did Ukraine decide they needed to control the crash area when investigarors were being allowed in by separatists/rebels?

Perhaps the black boxes data do not support the Ukraine/USA/EU narrative?

The black boxes data should be the smoking gun of evidence and may need destroyed?

Who do you trust in this scenario?

Ukraine lied about not having any planes in the area, why?

Is the delay intentional hoping Ukraine can rout the rebels and make this a moot point?

 

[jamesrage]

Was Malaysia Flight 17 Shot Down?

Evidence Is Now Conclusive: Two Ukrainian Government Fighter-Jets Shot Down Malaysian Airlines MH17.

The MH17 flight data recorder and cockpit audio tapes have been in UK hands since July 26th and still no info released. When the other Malaysian plane went down, within two days we had tower communications audio with the pilot. In this case that would be in the hands of Ukraine in Kiev. The USA has the satellite tracks over Ukraine for sure because they reported 3 ballistic massile launches by Ukraine. Photos have turned up all over the Internet showing the fuselage in the cockpit riddled with what appear to be approximately 30mm entry and exit holes of shrapnel. Witnesses on the ground said there was no missile just two planes in the air and then two explosions and down comes the 777. The audio promulgated by Ukraine seems suspicious and there are many web sites that show why it appears faked. Questions are requiring answers and should be readily available.

Why hasn't Ukraine released the tower audio with MH17?

Why hasn't the USA released sarellite imagery showing a launch or launcher?

Officials have had the MH17 black boxes for 11 days and we have heard no flight data or pilot audio. Why not?

Is it possible that this is a well planned false flag operation by covert agencies?

Why did Ukraine decide they needed to control the crash area when investigarors were being allowed in by separatists/rebels?

Perhaps the black boxes data do not support the Ukraine/USA/EU narrative?

The black boxes data should be the smoking gun of evidence and may need destroyed?

Who do you trust in this scenario?

Ukraine lied about not having any planes in the area, why?

Is the delay intentional hoping Ukraine can rout the rebels and make this a moot point?

I could care less if the plane was shot down with a missile or with bullets. The people mostly responsible for the plane being shot down are the pilot and the idiots who said it was okay to fly a civilian plane over a war-zone.Troops have no way of distinguishing the difference between a civilian aircraft or a legitimate military target like a bomber,military transport, gun-ship, spy plane or some other legitimate military target. What ****ing idiot and airline flies a civilian plane over a war zone and expects that plane to somehow not be a target.Is there some uncrackable beacon that only civilians planes have that I do not know about so that people engaged in conflicts do not strike it down and if this sort of beacon does exist how is it kept out of the hands wishing to use it for military/spying purposes?

This whining over a aircraft that was shot down in a war zone and trying to demonize Russia is a ****ing idiotic ploy by **** sucking piece of **** neocons and other war mongering scum trying to start some ****.There are also those with their lips firmly wrapped around MIC's **** making a big fuss out of this so they can claim we gotta send military aid to Ukraine and other European countries.

 

[Lord of Planar]

It's not a false flag operation, at least not by western nations. I will contend that the truth is in opposition the the agenda driven by the west.

 

[mbig]

The OP is using Conspiracy/Alternative site 'Informationclearinghouse' and an article by Conspiracyst Mike Whitney.
This is generally Garbage.

IMO, Rebels did it. More info to confirm will be coming.

From Kalashnikovs to Surface-to-Air Missiles in Eastern Ukraine
July 18, 2014, 5:04 pm ET
by Priyanka Boghani
From Kalashnikovs to Surface-to-Air Missiles in Eastern Ukraine | The Battle for Ukraine | FRONTLINE | PBS

[.......]

Can you talk a bit about the rebels who are suspected of being behind this? Igor Strelkov, for example, reportedly posted on social media Claiming Credit for shooting down a plane before it became clear that the plane was a civilian aircraft.​

He posted on his VKontakte site — that’s the Russian version of Facebook — around the time that the plane came down a slightly boastful post that “We’ve a Ukrainian transport plane.”

It’s also worth pointing out that this isn’t the first time they’ve shot a plane out of the sky. In the past few weeks, they’ve shot down a Ukrainian transport plane, a fighter jet and a helicopter. So we know that they have this kind of surface-to-air missiles. So, he posted it, tweeted about it, and people picked up on it. Later in the evening, they deleted the post, and gave all kinds of contradictory explanations. They said, “We don’t even have that kind of weaponry that can hit something at that altitude.”

Today, Strelkov came out and said that looking at the wreckage some of these bodies were badly decomposed, and had been dead for a long time — implying that this is some weird false-flag maneuver to try and draw in international forces. …
The interesting thing is they apparently thought it was a Ukrainian transport plane. The intercepts of phone conversations that the Ukrainian government released are Chilling. Intercepted Audio of Ukraine Separatists - Video - NYTimes.com

You hear how it went from initially one of the rebels calling the Russian supervisor and feeling sort of happy that they’ve achieved this military coup of getting another Ukrainian plane. Next call, you hear a little bit more doubt about what’s happened. By the third phone call, there’s no doubt in his mind that the passenger plane has nothing to do with the war. You get the sense it’s starting to dawn on them how big a deal this is, that the repercussions are going to be pretty huge.

Having met some of the separatists when you were in Ukraine this spring, are you surprised by their military capabilities? How would they have gotten the weapons to shoot down the Malaysian Air flight, as well as the cargo plane that was shot down earlier this week?​

When I was there, it was fairly early on in the uprising. The guys who were fighting in the east — it was a mixture. There were some Russians, but there were some locals. For the most part, the weapons they had were rusty, old Kalashnikovs. They had a few rocket launchers, a few heavier bits of kit, but Not anything cutting edge that could shoot a plane out of the sky.

It’s a sign that since I left in May, more well-qualified, well-trained soldiers — or “volunteers” as they’ve been called — have come across the border with serious heavy weaponry: tanks, surface-to-air missiles, kit that’s meant to fight a proper war, not just a few ground skirmishes.
[.... Much More ....]

 

[Threegoofs]

Somehow, some way, this will be linked to....BENGHAZI!!

 

[DaveFagan]

I could care less if the plane was shot down with a missile or with bullets. The people mostly responsible for the plane being shot down are the pilot and the idiots who said it was okay to fly a civilian plane over a war-zone.Troops have no way of distinguishing the difference between a civilian aircraft or a legitimate military target like a bomber,military transport, gun-ship, spy plane or some other legitimate military target. What ****ing idiot and airline flies a civilian plane over a war zone and expects that plane to somehow not be a target.Is there some uncrackable beacon that only civilians planes have that I do not know about so that people engaged in conflicts do not strike it down and if this sort of beacon does exist how is it kept out of the hands wishing to use it for military/spying purposes?

This whining over a aircraft that was shot down in a war zone and trying to demonize Russia is a ****ing idiotic ploy by **** sucking piece of **** neocons and other war mongering scum trying to start some ****.There are also those with their lips firmly wrapped around MIC's **** making a big fuss out of this so they can claim we gotta send military aid to Ukraine and other European countries.

That's why the release of the control tower audio between Kiev and the 777 is important. The planes fly the heading requested by the control tower. At least one Ukrainian aircraft was within 1.8 miles of the 777, but Ukraine denies that. I still find it odd that there are no eyewitnesses identifying a missile exhaust trail leading to the 777. It was a bright, sunny day and would be a hard thing to miss. The delay with the black boxes info seems really strange to me. I don't understand why Netherlands allowed the UK to get control of the boxes. Malaysian Airwys has been especially quiet about this incident compared to the previous one. Take a close look at the photos of the cockpit area of the 777. There really is a large number of shrapnel entry holes roughly 30mm in diameter. Do the SAM type missiles use 30mm round balls for shrapnel? Missile damage that I have seen usually has diamond shaped holes and smaller holes made by sideways entry of diamond shaped shrapnel. Does anyone actually know what the explosive containment warhead for a SAM actually looks like? That would give a hint as to the shape of the shrapnel because it is designed to braek apart into many pieces of shrapnel and it will produce repeatable patterns.

 

[Mark F]

Ummmmmmm,... Ongoing investigation still in progress.

/thread

 

[DaveFagan]

Ummmmmmm,... Ongoing investigation still in progress.

/thread

Do you mean like the investigation of the 100+ dead Maidan protestors. Give me a play by play on the results of that investigation. I see that Parubiy, the chief suspect in that massacre, has just resigned as National Security Chief for Ukraine. If MH17 is a false flag black op, he is the head of the maggot in Kiev. We'll know more soon, or huge confusion will be generated to obfuscate the results.

 

[Thoreau72]

US/UK/NATO/Ukraine have something to hide, that's all.

They told a bull**** story, and now are realizing the facts and evidence contradict their bull**** story. Oops!

They have something to hide, and they are hiding it. A False Flag operation that seems to be blowing up in their face. :lol:

 

[Lord of Planar]

US/UK/NATO/Ukraine have something to hide, that's all.

They told a bull**** story, and now are realizing the facts and evidence contradict their bull**** story. Oops!

They have something to hide, and they are hiding it. A False Flag operation that seems to be blowing up in their face. :lol:

I wouldn't claim a false flag, but I do believe they are embarrassed by whet the two black boxes reveal.

 

[Thoreau72]

I wouldn't claim a false flag, but I do believe they are embarrassed by whet the two black boxes reveal.

The reason for FF is that it was an effort at deception, to put the blame on the enemy, Russia.

Whether to provoke a war, or just to put blame on Russia I don't know, but it was a staged and deliberate event meant to stir public passions against Russia, a member of BRICS.

Combined (possibly) with MH 370, also could be punishment for Malaysia.

 

[Lord of Planar]

The reason for FF is that it was an effort at deception, to put the blame on the enemy, Russia.

Whether to provoke a war, or just to put blame on Russia I don't know, but it was a staged and deliberate event meant to stir public passions against Russia, a member of BRICS.

Combined (possibly) with MH 370, also could be punishment for Malaysia.

Your unsubstantiated fantasies of conspiracies just go too far.

This is no exception.

 

[Utility Man]

.....Does anyone actually know what the explosive containment warhead for a SAM actually looks like?.....

This may be what you are looking for.

eace

 

[DaveFagan]

Thank you, Utility Man.
If that is the SAM type warhead casing that is filled with explosive and fragments in proximity of the target, I don't see any metal shapes that would produce round, approximately 30mm holes. I see rectangles, bow ties, etc., but an absence of 30mm spheres. If this item you pictured were filled with high explosive, then all those shapes reveal possible downing by a SAM. OTOH, their absence would produce exoneration.

 

[Lord of Planar]

Thank you, Utility Man.
If that is the SAM type warhead casing that is filled with explosive and fragments in proximity of the target, I don't see any metal shapes that would produce round, approximately 30mm holes. I see rectangles, bow ties, etc., but an absence of 30mm spheres. If this item you pictured were filled with high explosive, then all those shapes reveal possible downing by a SAM. OTOH, their absence would produce exoneration.

The shrapnel shapes probably vary by specific warhead, as there were several over the years. However, it takes a soft metal like lead to mushroom outward in the opposite direction of the impact direction. Shrapnel is hard, and isn't going to cause such an effect.

 

[jaydeehess]

FDR and CVR recordings are rarely, if ever, released until investigation is completed.

Many times when you hear CVR recordings they are recreations, not the actual voices of the now deceased.

 

[DaveFagan]

The shrapnel shapes probably vary by specific warhead, as there were several over the years. However, it takes a soft metal like lead to mushroom outward in the opposite direction of the impact direction. Shrapnel is hard, and isn't going to cause such an effect.

That's likely correct that there was more than one design. However, the shrapnel producing jacket surrounding the explosive must also be shaped to maintain aerodynamic stability, reasonably lightweight but must be hard enough to penetrate softer metals, must shatter into the maximum number of pieces upon detonation, and if an air to air missile the charge is shaped to blow forward into the jet engine exhaust (like an IED). If the photo is a SAM warhead, one can obviously deduce the shape of shrapnel holes that will result. Look at the photos of the warhead and the photos of the 777 cockpit area. Is there any kind of match?

 

[Thoreau72]

Your unsubstantiated fantasies of conspiracies just go too far.

This is no exception.

Mine was not meant to be a factual statement. Mine is simply conjecture based upon the events as they have played out over the last 3 weeks. That is, all the claims made by the US that are, so far, not backed up by any solid evidence. The way the media played it.

While Russia has provided certain physical evidence, the US is still playing the social media card with Ukraine confiscating tapes that would be most helpful in discovering what really happened. Why are they hiding that, or more relevantly, why don't you care that they are hiding things if you are really interested in discovering what happened?

They are hiding evidence because they have SOMETHING to hide.

Think Occam, LOP. There is a simple reason for the refusal to show evidence to back up a given story. The most likely reason is that they have something to hide.

Is that too complex for you to grasp?

 

[Thoreau72]

That's likely correct that there was more than one design. However, the shrapnel producing jacket surrounding the explosive must also be shaped to maintain aerodynamic stability, reasonably lightweight but must be hard enough to penetrate softer metals, must shatter into the maximum number of pieces upon detonation, and if an air to air missile the charge is shaped to blow forward into the jet engine exhaust (like an IED). If the photo is a SAM warhead, one can obviously deduce the shape of shrapnel holes that will result. Look at the photos of the warhead and the photos of the 777 cockpit area. Is there any kind of match?

There does not appear to be a match.

And the mark on the wing, lining up perfectly with the cockpit, resembles the mark of a 'bullet', a round, of some type, NOT schrapnel.

I wonder if both cannon fire and air-to-air missile were used? One video taken from the ground makes it appear that one of the engines was on fire, the result of air-to-air missile.

It will be interesting to see what CVR and FDR show.

 

[Fledermaus]

There does not appear to be a match.

And the mark on the wing, lining up perfectly with the cockpit, resembles the mark of a 'bullet', a round, of some type, NOT schrapnel.

I wonder if both cannon fire and air-to-air missile were used? One video taken from the ground makes it appear that one of the engines was on fire, the result of air-to-air missile.

It will be interesting to see what CVR and FDR show.

Wow......

So much speculation.... Nothing in the way of understanding have SAM or AAMs work.

CLUE: Radar guided Anti Air missiles normally have proximity fuzing when the close to within a certain distance they will explode. It matters not whether it is near the cockpit, the engines or anywhere else for that matter.

CLUE: Heat seekers normally target the engines and, like radar guided missiles, normally have proximity fuzing as well.

CLUE: Neither target the cockpits.

CLUE: Missile do not "blow forward into the jet engine exhaust". In fact the current generation AIM-9 is designed to detonate in a ring shape pattern radiating outwards for the warhead located behind the seeker section.

CLUE: Round holes can be the result of rounds, shrapnel or pointy sticks. Absent other indicators on cannot determine the source of the hole. And if HE or HEI rounds you would know not by the round hole but by the ragged and much larger hole made by the explosion.

 

[DaveFagan]

Wow......

So much speculation.... Nothing in the way of understanding have SAM or AAMs work.

CLUE: Radar guided Anti Air missiles normally have proximity fuzing when the close to within a certain distance they will explode. It matters not whether it is near the cockpit, the engines or anywhere else for that matter.

CLUE: Heat seekers normally target the engines and, like radar guided missiles, normally have proximity fuzing as well.

CLUE: Neither target the cockpits.

CLUE: Missile do not "blow forward into the jet engine exhaust". In fact the current generation AIM-9 is designed to detonate in a ring shape pattern radiating outwards for the warhead located behind the seeker section.

CLUE: Round holes can be the result of rounds, shrapnel or pointy sticks. Absent other indicators on cannot determine the source of the hole. And if HE or HEI rounds you would know not by the round hole but by the ragged and much larger hole made by the explosion.

Speculation???? The most flagrant speculation is the original speculation that MH17 was shot down by rebels and a SAM. No evidence has been forthcoming to support that. My sensibilities are truly offended that this Thread/Poll has been placed in the Conspiracy Theories forum. The USA Mainstream Brainstream Media has presented as fact the rebels/SAM theory that is unsubstantiated by anything other than "social media," and no requests/demands for satellite imagery, radar tracks, tower audio, etc. have been forthcoming. When one's own ego makes them believe that they are way too smart to be snookered by the Media, it's time to wake up and find real news media, not stenographers for the gov't line or commercial interests. Read Robert Parry's, a genuine investigative reporter's, most recent coverage. This is the man who's coverage of Iran/Contra was "on the button." Our gov't still tries to coverup the Iran/Contra facts. Read the attached link with an open mind for your own edification.



Was Putin Targeted for Mid-Air Assassination?

"By Robert Parry
August 10, 2014 "ICH" - "Consortium News" - U.S. intelligence analysts are weighing the possibility that the shoot-down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 was a botched attempt by extremists in the Ukrainian government to assassinate Russian President Vladimir Putin whose aircraft was returning from South America the same day, according to a source briefed on the U.S. investigation.
If true, the direction of the investigation into the July 17 crash has veered dramatically from initial U.S. government allegations that eastern Ukrainian rebels, using a Russian-supplied anti-aircraft battery, were responsible for bringing down the plane killing 298 people onboard."

"
The Obama administration used those claims to whip up an anti-Russian hysteria that prompted European countries to ratchet up economic sanctions against Moscow, starting what now looks like an incipient trade war.
But the U.S. analysts dismissed those original suspicions because they could find no evidence that such a missile battery had been supplied by the Russians or was in the possession of the rebels, prompting a shift in thinking toward a scenario in which Ukrainian hardliners working with elements of the air force may have tried to ambush Putin’s plane but instead hit the Malaysian airliner, said the source speaking on condition of anonymity.
Putin flies in a plane with similar red, white and blue markings as the Malaysian airliner and was known to be on his way home after a six-day visit to South America. But his plane took a different route and landed safely in Moscow.
After the crash, as U.S. intelligence analysts pored over phone intercepts and other intelligence data, they began to suspect that the motive for the shoot-down was the desire among some Ukrainian extremists to eliminate Putin whom they had been privately vowing to kill – words initially viewed as empty bluster but which were looked at differently in hindsight – the source said.
If some Ukrainian authorities were hoping to ambush Putin’s plane, they also would have had only a matter of minutes to detect the aircraft’s presence and make a decision to fire, so it could be plausible that the attackers made a hasty decision to hit Putin’s plane before they realized that they had made a tragic mistake."

 

[Thoreau72]

Good point Dave, about this thread being considered CT.

Since when has accident investigation become conspiracy theory?

Enquiring minds simply want to know what really happened, and there is nothing strange about that.

Questioning the official statements of known liars is now considered conspiracy. :roll:

My goodness, how prescient Orwell was.

 

[Fledermaus]

Speculation????

Yes. Speculation....

And I notice not one word as to the rest of the statement........


So much speculation.... Nothing in the way of understanding have SAM or AAMs work.

Look... You can hate the MSM all you want. You are free to do so.

But don't whine when your speculation is met with the same criticism and that you reserve for MSM' speculation.

 

[Thoreau72]

My bet it was almost brand-spanking-new Sukoi 25, or a flight of them. Probably they got a missile hit on one engine, and cannon fire across the wing to the cockpit.

 

[DifferentDrummr]

Assuming the rebels shot down MH17 (which they likely did), Putin is going to demand proof as soon as the west makes an official statement to that effect. Chances are the forensic people are working on the proof right now.