Measles outbreak - boon for drug companies

[Oozlefinch]

Oh... different chart. Regardless, I posted no charts, just added comments to.

Once again, sorry if you thought I was responding to a chart of yours. This is the one.

Love the incorrect information added directly to the top of it. There indeed was a vaccine created, which shows that koko never went beyond mind dead sites that support his beliefs instead of actually trying to gain real facts and information.

 

[KokomoJojo]

I can break it down even more simply.

First of all, there was a Scarlet Fever Vaccine

In fact, the creators (husband and wife George and Gladys Dick) were nominated for the Nobel Prize for Medicine in 1925 for their creation of both a test and vaccine, which combined largely eradicated Scarlet Fever.

https://books.google.com/books?id=u...e&q=scarlet fever vaccine george dick&f=false

:failpail:





There is no vaccine to prevent strep throat or scarlet fever.


Scarlet Fever: A Streptococcal Infection CDC


Nice try!

 

[KokomoJojo]

Once again, sorry if you thought I was responding to a chart of yours. This is the one.

Love the incorrect information added directly to the top of it. There indeed was a vaccine created, which shows that koko never went beyond mind dead sites that support his beliefs instead of actually trying to gain real facts and information.

Yeh the CDC!

:hitsfan:


Keep up the good work!

 

[KokomoJojo]

if that isnt bad enough, before your claimed vaccine there was an 80% reduction naturally, and only a 60% reduction in deaths for the same time period going forward after your claimed vaccine!

Where do I sign up!!!!:2funny:

 

[NWO_Spook]

Which was why both of us "protected our arses"** WITHOUT blowing the lid on a good bit of poeing:



Well executed Oozlefinch - in AU we call it "berleying the water" - blood, guts and offal spread on fishing waters to attract fish.

It worked.

** Both AU resident so "arses" is the spelling - we are not referring to "donkeys"

It worked brilliantly!

 

[BmanMcfly]

Yes, the mandatory vaccine push has been going on for some time...

The people pushing for this do not consider the implications.

1- liability protection: if a car manufacturer were protected from being held responsible if the engine in 1 of 1000 of their cars blew up, it wouldn't be long before it would be 1/100 cars blowing up. They are covered.

2- are you going to have police knocking down doors enforcing on the few people the refuse for whatever reasons? Sounds like martial law to me.

3- what about people that are allergic to vaccine? Inject them anyway, if they die they die?

4- what about experimental vaccines, should those be mandatory?

5- what about the vaccines that may not be relevant? (Ie hep b to a baby, malaria to those in northern climates, etc?)

Whatever happened to the concept of taking responsibility for your own health? I guess now that healthcare is a social responsibility, the socialists get to dictate how you take care of your body in and out of hospitals.

Should I be surprised that no one has even tried to address the 5 points / questions raised?

 

[Fledermaus]

Should I be surprised that no one has even tried to address the 5 points / questions raised?

Why do you desire the right to infect?

 

[KokomoJojo]

Should I be surprised that no one has even tried to address the 5 points / questions raised?

fled wants the right to FORCE people to have their bodies injected with any **** in the name of public health despite the FACT I just proved it does not work.

 

[BmanMcfly]

fled wants the right to FORCE people to have their bodies injected with any **** in the name of public health despite the FACT I just proved it does not work.

Ya, the funny thing is, not going to speak for you, but there are benefits to vaccines... There is immunity gained, but there are problems associated with vaccinations. However, there needs to be some sense involved. As usual, most have trouble following a position that is not black or white.

Example; how is a 6 month old going to get hep B ? Why should that child be put under the risks associated with the vaccine (even though that is a minority) when the benefit is zero chance of contracting the virus lowered to zero percent.

I already brought up factor 8 (unfortunately oz is too busy making himself feel smugly superior, for no reason, rather than discussing the issue). But then there's also a good number of human experiments that were done in the name of vaccines...

Then there was one where Merck, again, released a vaccine that was both strains of bird flu (one contagious not very fatal, the other not very contagious but something like 90% fatal) and a human flu. The lots were about to be shipped when a contractor tested the vaccine on a ferret. The ferret died, when tests were done and the "vaccine" was a dose of live viruses. Virologists at the time and said that this "mistake" was the best way to create a combined virus with all 3 traits (highly contagious, highly virulent and able to infect humans)

If the people were Angels that made the vaccines, there still might be problems... Unfortunately, the vaccine makers are among the least ethical groups, afforded that luxury through liability protection.

 

[ozeco41]

Ya, the funny thing is, not going to speak for you, but there are benefits to vaccines... There is immunity gained, but there are problems associated with vaccinations. However, there needs to be some sense involved. As usual, most have trouble following a position that is not black or white....

Agreed. In your haste to ridicule me you may have missed the points I made. OR as the experienced manager it is almost certain that my comments would be too terse for the prevailing ethos of this forum. The relevant comments were:

The bottom line is their claim that communities should not help the vast majority because of a risk to a small minority.

And I have no intention of entering into debate with those who cannot get the whole of community risk management issues in perspective.
The big difference being that there [are] some partial truths in the anti vaccination hysteria. Partial. Hence my comment - get a grasp of the risk management.

You are clearly identifying that the issues are not "black or white" and there is a need for balance. I fully agree. That is precisely the point I was trying to make with get the whole of community risk management issues in perspective. If the befits outweigh the risks - I say go for it. BUT the key and more subtle point is that it must be a significant "outweigh" We are not talking 51% beating 49% here. Humankind's history is littered with marginal ideas that went seriously wrong.

Example; how is a 6 month old going to get hep B ? Why should that child be put under the risks associated with the vaccine (even though that is a minority) when the benefit is zero chance of contracting the virus lowered to zero percent....

Exactly the sort of issue I would raise if it was my area of professional expertise. MY own experience is related - but not pure medical epidemiology. Ask about water related disease risks - my territory EXCEPT I'm retired and the game has progressed.

(unfortunately oz is too busy making himself feel smugly superior, for no reason, rather than discussing the issue).

It is a waste of bandwidth demeaning me. I pay no attention. You may as well say something constructive.

But then there's also a good number of human experiments that were done in the name of vaccines...

I have already commented on the "learning process" problems. No progress without trials and running trials runs risks. Even if there were no political OR industry profiteering issues.

Then there was one where Merck, again, released a vaccine that was both strains of bird flu (one contagious not very fatal, the other not very contagious but something like 90% fatal) and a human flu. The lots were about to be shipped when a contractor tested the vaccine on a ferret. The ferret died, when tests were done and the "vaccine" was a dose of live viruses. Virologists at the time and said that this "mistake" was the best way to create a combined virus with all 3 traits (highly contagious, highly virulent and able to infect humans)...

And that sort of issue I despair of being discussed on forums where the prevailing mindset cannot even deal with simple yes or no technical subjects such as "No CD at WTC" . I know you will want to disagree. Do both of us a favour. See the comparison I am drawing. IF we cannot resolve the CD issue one way or the other - there is little hope for realistic discussion of medical epidemiological issues which are a couple of grades more complicated.

 

[ozeco41]

...I could do the exact same study to prove masturbation causes blindness. All I would have to do is ask people who developed blindness whether they ever masturbated before going blind, and then compare that to rate to the rate of masturbation in the general population, and I would find that masturbation rates are higher in people with blindness because the results of the general population would be skewed by the religious sorts that don't masturbate...

My eyesight is deteriorating. I thought it was simply age.

 

[ozeco41]

@BmanMcfly

A belated PS - I missed the "Edit Window"

At this stage I'm not considering the "enforced compliance" issues - but those aspects go to political and constitutional issues - not medical. (And this former water supply engineer was involved in the fluoride debate. Many years ago.) The hot political issue is the balance of community versus individual "rights". US folk will come out stronger than AU on those issues. I'll take a rain check at this stage.

 

[Oozlefinch]

Example; how is a 6 month old going to get hep B ? Why should that child be put under the risks associated with the vaccine (even though that is a minority) when the benefit is zero chance of contracting the virus lowered to zero percent.

Are you aware of why this vaccination is required?

Because at one time, Hepatitis outbreaks at schools were all to common. Now such outbreaks are almost unheard of because of vaccinations.

In fact, I bet a lot of people are unaware that the "home school" movement originally started by parents that did not want their kids going to the disease ridden schools of the turn of the century in the era before vaccines wiped out most of the "childhood diseases". And that 150 years ago such diseases were the major cause of death. Measles, mumps, whooping cough, these were major killers 100 years ago, today they are mostly unknown.

 

[zyzygy]

Do you really think people so stupid that they cannot find facts and make an informed decision?

Someimes they are. I cite 911 "truth" fans.

 

[zyzygy]

Ah, such nostalgia for the time before the polio vaccine. I saw kids in the iron lungs and calipers on their legs. Happy days!

 

[Oozlefinch]

Ah, such nostalgia for the time before the polio vaccine. I saw kids in the iron lungs and calipers on their legs. Happy days!

There is an older uncle I never met. My mom's older brother, he caught polio when he was 6, died when he was 8.

Of course, we can also try returning to an older technique for curing some diseases, the "Kettering Hyperthermic Chamber", or what was called the "Fever Chamber".

This was one of the first cures discovered for Gonorrhea and other chronic diseases. Basically it looks a lot like an iron lung, but it was designed to raise the patient's body temperature. Up to 114 degrees for periods of up to 12 hours. In the era before antibiotics artificially induced fevers was the only way to kill chronic diseases. I remember some research was done into this about a decade ago for HIV, but it did not pan out. And currently the Sloan-Kettering Cancer Institute is researching this to be used as part of a cancer treatment.

But without vaccinations, this is the level of medicine we would be forced to return to.

 

[Mark F]

But without vaccinations, this is the level of medicine we would be forced to return to.

Nonsense. Chiropractors and Acupuncturists can cure anything. :bolt

 

[ozeco41]

Measles, mumps, whooping cough, these were major killers 100 years ago, today they are mostly unknown.

They were normal and expected when I was in primary school 1946-51 north of England. And polio sufferers were not rare - the illnesses were annual events tho' not the deaths which came with some epidemics.

How easy it is for people to forget in a couple of generations.

BUT there is - or may be - a partial truth in what Bman says.

Could be it is time to redo the risk analyses. Because the reasons now is preventing the disease returning to endemic levels whereas the original goal was stop it being endemic. It was "curative" NOW it is "preventative" at whole of community level NOT individuals who don't want to support community wide standards.

 

[ozeco41]

Nonsense. Chiropractors and Acupuncturists can cure anything. :bolt

Don't forget homeopaths.

Or placebos.

Or all those bits of partial truths in the alternate camps.

Which are still truths even if partial.

And folks who cannot avoid false generalising errors of argument in technical situations like the simple "yes no" issues of WTC 9/11 collapses...

....will have a field day in the far harder "probabilistic" setting of health and behavioural issues.

Which is why you may see me commenting in these topics BUT certainly not pressing arguments.

 

[Oozlefinch]

Don't forget homeopaths.

Or placebos.

Which is why you may see me commenting in these topics BUT certainly not pressing arguments.

Placebos are an entirely different ballgame. In the military Motrin is generally used that way.

"Doc, my leg just got blown off!"
"Here, pop a Motrin, we will get to you later."

Now notice, for the most part I really do not "press arguments". In fact, most of my time is spent simply in correcting the false information that many in these threads present ("There was never a vaccine for Scarlet Fever"). And you can tell the level of comprehension of some of these individuals when they can not tell the difference between "was" and "is". Yes, there was a vaccine for Scarlet Fever, no there is not one now because it was abandoned decades ago with the advent of antibiotics. Kind of like how the hand crank on your car became obsolete once Charles Kettering and DELCO invented the electric start.

In fact, in all of the vehicles I have ever owned, only 1 ever had both electric and manual start. My 1976 Gold Wing. For some unknown reason the engineers included both electric and kick start. Why, I have no idea. Belt and suspenders thinking I guess.

I think it is safe to say that 80% of the time I really press no argument at all, I simply correct the horrible mistakes of others, and maybe present things that others are not thinking of. But it is very rare to ever have me say "I think this is best/worst because..." I simply let the facts speak for themselves most of the time.

 

[KokomoJojo]

Once again, sorry if you thought I was responding to a chart of yours. This is the one.

Love the incorrect information added directly to the top of it. There indeed was a vaccine created, which shows that koko never went beyond mind dead sites that support his beliefs instead of actually trying to gain real facts and information.

more like you posted incorrect information when you claimed that there was a scarlet fever vaccine and the CDC says no such thing, and I had to correct it, and post 66 is pushing your argument.

Furthermore you have not shown vaccines actually work better than the natural human immune system yet at the same time claim they do. Same these posers do about 911 claiming there is no CD and never any prove for it.

cheers

 

[zyzygy]

They were normal and expected when I was in primary school 1946-51 north of England. And polio sufferers were not rare - the illnesses were annual events tho' not the deaths which came with some epidemics.

True, it was the same in the early 1950's. Thoses illnesses were sometimes deadly back then and I have no idea why the ant-vacc crowd want to return to those days. I can't believe that they all hate children.

 

[KokomoJojo]

True, it was the same in the early 1950's. Thoses illnesses were sometimes deadly back then and I have no idea why the ant-vacc crowd want to return to those days. I can't believe that they all hate children.

but the measles vaccine didnt come out until 1963 when most people were already NATURALLY immune! What a racket man, fix the problem after its already naturally fixed then give out no bell prizes! woohoo! So can we start electing mafioso's in the next election? At least they have a history of telling people straight up before they jam a dick up their asses.

 

[VanceMack]

If you put Sodium and Chloride into your child's food you would be arrested and sent to jail, then why is it legal for McDonalds to do it with table salt?

Because its the healthiest thing that goes into McDonalds food.

 

[ozeco41]

Placebos are an entirely different ballgame.

Sure - but related psychology.

Now notice, for the most part I really do not "press arguments". In fact, most of my time is spent simply in correcting the false information that many in these threads present ("There was never a vaccine for Scarlet Fever").

Understood - take out the "press" - substitute "enter" - not my subject so I probably won't even enter debate to correct errors of detail - note I've stayed with generic issues of principle. (So far.)

And you can tell the level of comprehension of some of these individuals when they can not tell the difference between "was" and "is". Yes, there was a vaccine for Scarlet Fever, no there is not one now because it was abandoned decades ago with the advent of antibiotics.

It is good enough for me when Koko quotes examples. It is near certain they are misquotes. SOP his "style".

I think it is safe to say that 80% of the time I really press no argument at all, I simply correct the horrible mistakes of others, and maybe present things that others are not thinking of. But it is very rare to ever have me say "I think this is best/worst because..." I simply let the facts speak for themselves most of the time.

Understood.