Markey vs Kennedy in Massachusetts (1 Viewer)

[Jack Hays]

Looks like Joe couldn't wait. Now he's likely to lose.

Election 2020

The Markey-Kennedy Senate primary battle is one Democrats wish wasn’t happening

Ed Markey has never lost an election. No Kennedy has ever lost in the state. Who will win is anyone’s guess.

• By Roxanne Roberts

". . . Kennedy’s early lead has been erased; Markey has pulled into a double-digit lead in some polls. But the race is seen as too close to call, and both campaigns say they expect to win by bringing out a record number of first-time voters: Young progressives for Markey; minorities and other underrepresented communities for Kennedy.

The Globe’s endorsement of Markey last month was a blow to the Kennedy camp, which dismissed it as pandering to the paper’s “disproportionately white, well-off, well-educated readers.” Markey has racked up other endorsements (Warren, MoveOn.org), cutting further into Kennedy’s support. . . "

 

[Jack Hays]

Massachusetts Senate - Democratic Primary

 

[chuckiechan]

Looks like Joe couldn't wait. Now he's likely to lose.

Election 2020

The Markey-Kennedy Senate primary battle is one Democrats wish wasn’t happening

Ed Markey has never lost an election. No Kennedy has ever lost in the state. Who will win is anyone’s guess.

• By Roxanne Roberts

". . . Kennedy’s early lead has been erased; Markey has pulled into a double-digit lead in some polls. But the race is seen as too close to call, and both campaigns say they expect to win by bringing out a record number of first-time voters: Young progressives for Markey; minorities and other underrepresented communities for Kennedy.

The Globe’s endorsement of Markey last month was a blow to the Kennedy camp, which dismissed it as pandering to the paper’s “disproportionately white, well-off, well-educated readers.” Markey has racked up other endorsements (Warren, MoveOn.org), cutting further into Kennedy’s support. . . "

The line of automobile trunks has yet to yield it’s bounty!

 

[Cordelier]

Looks like Joe couldn't wait. Now he's likely to lose.

Election 2020

The Markey-Kennedy Senate primary battle is one Democrats wish wasn’t happening

Ed Markey has never lost an election. No Kennedy has ever lost in the state. Who will win is anyone’s guess.

• By Roxanne Roberts

". . . Kennedy’s early lead has been erased; Markey has pulled into a double-digit lead in some polls. But the race is seen as too close to call, and both campaigns say they expect to win by bringing out a record number of first-time voters: Young progressives for Markey; minorities and other underrepresented communities for Kennedy.

The Globe’s endorsement of Markey last month was a blow to the Kennedy camp, which dismissed it as pandering to the paper’s “disproportionately white, well-off, well-educated readers.” Markey has racked up other endorsements (Warren, MoveOn.org), cutting further into Kennedy’s support. . . "

There was no reason whatsoever for Kennedy to challenge Markey.... it's just typical Kennedy arrogance. The way I figure it, arrogance is fine if you can back it up... if you can't, then it's just arrogance. Markey has done a good job standing up for Democratic values as both a Congressman and Senator since before Kennedy was born - if I were a Massachusetts voter, I wouldn't have any reason to vote against him.

 

[Surrealistik]

Looks like Joe couldn't wait. Now he's likely to lose.

Election 2020

The Markey-Kennedy Senate primary battle is one Democrats wish wasn’t happening

Ed Markey has never lost an election. No Kennedy has ever lost in the state. Who will win is anyone’s guess.

• By Roxanne Roberts

". . . Kennedy’s early lead has been erased; Markey has pulled into a double-digit lead in some polls. But the race is seen as too close to call, and both campaigns say they expect to win by bringing out a record number of first-time voters: Young progressives for Markey; minorities and other underrepresented communities for Kennedy.

The Globe’s endorsement of Markey last month was a blow to the Kennedy camp, which dismissed it as pandering to the paper’s “disproportionately white, well-off, well-educated readers.” Markey has racked up other endorsements (Warren, MoveOn.org), cutting further into Kennedy’s support. . . "

It's pretty telling that pretty much immediately after Pelosi's endorsement of Joe Kennedy he went from a 2 point lead to being underwater by double digits as Ed Markey's fundraising skyrocketed vs Joe's, outgrowing the arrogant Kennedy's by a factor of 3 to 1; a clear showcase as to the toxicity of her endorsement, and how it galvanizes progressive opposition.

Also it should be noted that Joe is ironically the establishment choice in this race, with the FDR/AOC/Bernie wing backing Ed Markey; I can only assume a big part of Pelosi's motive in violating her own stance on not challenging incumbents is Ed's betrayal of the neoliberal/New Dem wing in favour of progressive positions.

 

[Cordelier]

It's pretty telling that pretty much immediately after Pelosi's endorsement of Joe Kennedy he went from a 2 point lead to being underwater by double digits as Ed Markey's fundraising skyrocketed vs Joe's, outgrowing the arrogant Kennedy's by a factor of 3 to 1; a clear showcase as to the toxicity of her endorsement, and how it galvanizes progressive opposition.

Also it should be noted that Joe is ironically the establishment choice in this race, with the FDR/AOC/Bernie wing backing Ed Markey; I can only assume a big part of Pelosi's motive in violating her own stance on not challenging incumbents is Ed's betrayal of the neoliberal/New Dem wing in favour of progressive positions.

I don't think it's anything like that, Surreal... I think it has far more to do with the fact that Kennedy hasn't enunciated exactly why he's running. Is he running to fight for any policies that Markey hasn't been fighting for over 40 years? No? Well, does he have bold new ideas about where we should be going? No?

So what's the reason to vote for him? His last name??

Who cares?

 

[Surrealistik]

I don't think it's anything like that, Surreal... I think it has far more to do with the fact that Kennedy hasn't enunciated exactly why he's running. Is he running to fight for any policies that Markey hasn't been fighting for over 40 years? No? Well, does he have bold new ideas about where we should be going? No?

So what's the reason to vote for him? His last name??

Who cares?

It is exactly that, especially given the timing.

Progs know who their enemies are, and where Kennedy stands on the issues vs Markey (Markey is explicitly progressive; Kennedy cleaves closer to neolib orthodoxy where he has known positions); Pelosi's endorsement of him, and AOC's endorsement of Markey has made these ideological battlegrounds painfully explicit.

 

[Cordelier]

It is exactly that, especially given the timing.

Progs know who their enemies are, and where Kennedy stands on the issues vs Markey (Markey is explicitly progressive; Kennedy cleaves closer to neolib orthodoxy where he has known positions); Pelosi's endorsement of him, and AOC's endorsement of Markey has made these ideological battlegrounds painfully explicit.

I don't think people in Massachusetts give a rat's *** who AOC or Pelosi endorsed - only political hacks think along those lines.

Truth be told, I don't see a whole lot of daylight between Markey and Kennedy on the political spectrum. If you want to rank them based on a 1 to 10 scale of how conservative they are, Markey is probably a 2 and Kennedy is maybe a 3.

 

[Greenbeard]

It is exactly that, especially given the timing.

Progs know who their enemies are, and where Kennedy stands on the issues vs Markey (Markey is explicitly progressive; Kennedy cleaves closer to neolib orthodoxy where he has known positions); Pelosi's endorsement of him, and AOC's endorsement of Markey has made these ideological battlegrounds painfully explicit.

Interesting that Markey's failed all the litmus tests the left applies to any Dem dinosaur who's been in office for decades (Iraq, NAFTA, the crime bill).

 

[Surrealistik]

I don't think people in Massachusetts give a rat's *** who AOC or Pelosi endorsed - only political hacks think along those lines.

Truth be told, I don't see a whole lot of daylight between Markey and Kennedy on the political spectrum. If you want to rank them based on a 1 to 10 scale of how conservative they are, Markey is probably a 2 and Kennedy is maybe a 3.

The polls seem to disagree relative to the timing.

Also, while I would agree that Kennedy is on the whole progressive on paper, Markey has the receipts (GND, MFA), which accounts for much. That Pelosi endorses Kennedy is definitely a red flag in terms of his sincerity on the progressive agenda given her opposition to and contempt for much of it.

Interesting that Markey's failed all the litmus tests the left applies to any Dem dinosaur who's been in office for decades (Iraq, NAFTA, the crime bill).

What part about 'betrayal' do you not understand? Unlike many of those other dinosaurs, Ed has convincingly embraced progressive policy, decisively backing such pillars as singlepayer and the GND which he co-sponsored and has not waived on; that's why he has the FDR wing's support vs a clear cut progressive lipservice closet neoliberal with Pelosi's endorsement which outs him as a target and makes him a clear and obvious opponent.

 

[Cordelier]

The polls seem to disagree relative to the timing.

Also, while I would agree that Kennedy is on the whole progressive on paper, Markey has the receipts (GND, MFA), which accounts for much. That Pelosi endorses Kennedy is definitely a red flag in terms of his sincerity on the progressive agenda given her opposition to and contempt for much of it.



What part about 'betrayal' do you not understand? Unlike many of those other dinosaurs, Ed has convincingly embraced progressive policy, decisively backing such pillars as singlepayer and the GND which he co-sponsored and has not waived on; that's why he has the FDR wing's support vs a clear cut progressive lipservice closet neoliberal with Pelosi's endorsement which outs him as a target and makes him a clear and obvious opponent.

Markey is an old pro... you don't last 40+ years in politics without knowing how the game is played and when best to time your moves.

I trust Kennedy is getting a lesson in hardball as we speak.

 

[Surrealistik]

Markey is an old pro... you don't last 40+ years in politics without knowing how the game is played and when best to time your moves.

I trust Kennedy is getting a lesson in hardball as we speak.

I mean, at the time Ed signed onto those progressive initiatives, neoliberals were still the ones decisively in charge of the party; hell they still are despite experiencing some significant blows lately, and I wouldn't say that his alignment with those initiatives is entirely predicated on political expedience, though yes, it's possible he crunched the numbers and realized that A: it played well with his constituency and B: he ultimately stood to gain more politically overall by betraying party leadership in favour of popular policy. Maybe he had some backroom talks with AOC and Sanders; also possible.

Anyways, regardless of his ultimate motives, the bottom line is that he is definitely rightly more trusted than Kennedy by progs, and Pelosi's endorsement of Kennedy has solidified their support of Ed and opposition to Joe if the timing of fundraising and support surges are any indication which I believe they are.

 

[Cordelier]

I mean, at the time Ed signed onto those progressive initiatives, neoliberals were still the ones decisively in charge of the party; hell they still are despite experiencing some significant blows lately, and I wouldn't say that his alignment with those initiatives is entirely predicated on political expedience, though yes, it's possible he crunched the numbers and realized that A: it played well with his constituency and B: he ultimately stood to gain more politically overall by betraying party leadership in favour of popular policy. Maybe he had some backroom talks with AOC and Sanders; also possible.

Anyways, regardless of his ultimate motives, the bottom line is that he is definitely rightly more trusted than Kennedy by progs, and Pelosi's endorsement of Kennedy has solidified their support of Ed and opposition to Joe if the timing of fundraising and support surges are any indication which I believe they are.

AOC and Sanders? *L* Give me a break... Markey has literally forgotten more about politics than those two have ever known. As for Pelosi, well, you never know exactly what her game is. For all I know, she could have been repaying some old political debts to Joe II... or some new ones to Joe III... or maybe she endorsed him to keep him from dropping out of the race early and trying to hang on to his House seat. Maybe all of the above? Maybe none of the above?

 

[Surrealistik]

AOC and Sanders? *L* Give me a break... Markey has literally forgotten more about politics than those two have ever known.

I mean I know you are eager to express your baseless contempt for AOC and Sanders, but that you personally think little of them isn't the point; I think it's exceedingly likely they got together and talked shop on policy with Ed, particularly given his co-sponsoring of pillar progressive policy, and AOC's endorsement which he is exceedingly thankful for.

As for Pelosi, well, you never know exactly what her game is. For all I know, she could have been repaying some old political debts to Joe II... or some new ones to Joe III... or maybe she endorsed him to keep him from dropping out of the race early and trying to hang on to his House seat. Maybe all of the above? Maybe none of the above?

Pelosi isn't some inscrutable 4-d chessmaster, especially when it comes to internal Democratic politicking; far from it. Remember, her status as a 'master legislator' is actually an insufferably noxious and unmerited self-description. Her approach to politics is actually pretty simple overall, and handily explains most of her maneuvering: support neoliberal establishment politicos and policy big donors support, oppose or otherwise minimize progressive policy and politicos; uphold New Dem orthodoxy and factional dominance within the party. We can see this in her support of Engels (who convincingly lost to upstart progressive Jamaal Bowman) despite his heinous and indefensible statement of indifference regarding addressing his constituents about the COVID crisis (which Pelosi incessantly danced around when pressed on it).

What old/new debts are you talking about?

Pretty much the only reason outside of ideological wagon circling and punishing Ed for stepping out of line with party brass is _maybe_ Joe's value as a fundraiser, fantastical and speculative backroom politicking aside.

 

[Cordelier]

I mean I know you are eager to express your baseless contempt for AOC and Sanders, but that you personally think little of them isn't the point; I think it's exceedingly likely they got together and talked shop on policy with Ed, particularly given his co-sponsoring of pillar progressive policy, and AOC's endorsement which he is exceedingly thankful for.



Pelosi isn't some inscrutable 4-d chessmaster, especially when it comes to internal Democratic politicking; far from it. Remember, her status as a 'master legislator' is actually an insufferably noxious and unmerited self-description. Her approach to politics is actually pretty simple overall, and handily explains most of her maneuvering: support neoliberal establishment politicos and policy big donors support, oppose or otherwise minimize progressive policy and politicos; uphold New Dem orthodoxy and factional dominance within the party. We can see this in her support of Engels (who convincingly lost to upstart progressive Jamaal Bowman) despite his heinous and indefensible statement of indifference regarding addressing his constituents about the COVID crisis (which Pelosi incessantly danced around when pressed on it).

What old/new debts are you talking about?

Pretty much the only reason outside of ideological wagon circling and punishing Ed for stepping out of line with party brass is _maybe_ Joe's value as a fundraiser, fantastical and speculative backroom politicking aside.

Baseless contempt??? I actually like AOC - and even Sanders on an Oscar the Grouch level - I just think she has a tendency to overplay her hand, and she's going to end up getting burnt because of it. How long do you figure it'll be before she starts eyeing Chuck Schumer's Senate seat? He's up for re-election in 2022.... that has to be pretty tempting for someone like her, don't you think?

As for Pelosi's legislative skills, I think it'd behoove you to do some reading on how exactly Obamacare was passed despite - not because - of the Obama White House. She's out there playing chess while everyone else is still playing checkers.

 

[Surrealistik]

Baseless contempt??? I actually like AOC - and even Sanders on an Oscar the Grouch level - I just think she has a tendency to overplay her hand, and she's going to end up getting burnt because of it. How long do you figure it'll be before she starts eyeing Chuck Schumer's Senate seat? He's up for re-election in 2022.... that has to be pretty tempting for someone like her, don't you think?

If AOC is overplaying her hand, it certainly isn't showing per the growth of the Squad, her political influence and its resounding and crushing universal re-election despite absolute heaps of money being thrown to their primary opponents by special and out of state interests. I don't know when she expects to take Chuck's seat, but I would love to see her as president sometime within the next 4 to 12 years.

As for Pelosi's legislative skills, I think it'd behoove you to do some reading on how exactly Obamacare was passed despite - not because - of the Obama White House. She's out there playing chess while everyone else is still playing checkers.

Ah yes, what a masterful achievement; passing ACA sans public option in a Dem controlled House and Senate while Joe Lieberman sat pretty denying said PO and was confronted, per his own account, by literally no one over this, thereby turning ACA into a pure health insurance industry's delight via generous subsidies and punitive measures against those who opted not to purchase private insurance, regardless of what benefits accrued to the public. Pelosi is easily one of the most overrated politicos in Washington, and when it comes to New Dems vs FDR Dems in particular, her political tactics and maneuverings are the definition of basic bitch.

 

[Cordelier]

If AOC is overplaying her hand, it certainly isn't showing per the growth of the Squad, her political influence and its resounding and crushing universal re-election despite absolute heaps of money being thrown to their primary opponents by special and out of state interests. I don't know when she expects to take Chuck's seat, but I would love to see her as president sometime within the next 4 to 12 years.



Ah yes, what a masterful achievement; passing ACA sans public option in a Dem controlled House and Senate while Joe Lieberman sat pretty denying said PO and was confronted, per his own account, by literally no one over this, thereby turning ACA into a health insurance industry's delight via generous subsidies and punitive measures against those who opted not to purchase private insurance, regardless of what benefits accrued to the public. Pelosi is easily one of the most overrated politicos in Washington, and when it comes to New Dems vs FDR Dems in particular, her political tactics and maneuverings are the definition of basic bitch.

Can't help but notice you didn't comment on the 2022 Senate race, though.

Just remember... meteoric rises often lead to swift and firey ends. You can burn bright or you can burn long.... but nobody has ever managed to do both.

 

[Jack Hays]

Markey vs. Kennedy: A battle royal in the Bay State

• By E.J. Dionne Jr.

 

[TypicalRussian]

Looks like Joe couldn't wait. Now he's likely to lose.

Election 2020

The Markey-Kennedy Senate primary battle is one Democrats wish wasn’t happening

Ed Markey has never lost an election. No Kennedy has ever lost in the state. Who will win is anyone’s guess.

• By Roxanne Roberts

". . . Kennedy’s early lead has been erased; Markey has pulled into a double-digit lead in some polls. But the race is seen as too close to call, and both campaigns say they expect to win by bringing out a record number of first-time voters: Young progressives for Markey; minorities and other underrepresented communities for Kennedy.

The Globe’s endorsement of Markey last month was a blow to the Kennedy camp, which dismissed it as pandering to the paper’s “disproportionately white, well-off, well-educated readers.” Markey has racked up other endorsements (Warren, MoveOn.org), cutting further into Kennedy’s support. . . "

i live in MA and it is interesting

 

[TypicalRussian]

Markey vs. Kennedy: A battle royal in the Bay State

• By E.J. Dionne Jr.

kennedys do very well here!

 

[foolardi]

Looks like Joe couldn't wait. Now he's likely to lose.

Election 2020

The Markey-Kennedy Senate primary battle is one Democrats wish wasn’t happening

Ed Markey has never lost an election. No Kennedy has ever lost in the state. Who will win is anyone’s guess.

• By Roxanne Roberts

". . . Kennedy’s early lead has been erased; Markey has pulled into a double-digit lead in some polls. But the race is seen as too close to call, and both campaigns say they expect to win by bringing out a record number of first-time voters: Young progressives for Markey; minorities and other underrepresented communities for Kennedy.

The Globe’s endorsement of Markey last month was a blow to the Kennedy camp, which dismissed it as pandering to the paper’s “disproportionately white, well-off, well-educated readers.” Markey has racked up other endorsements (Warren, MoveOn.org), cutting further into Kennedy’s support. . . "

Markey is advertising being proud of his MoVeOn.org endorsemanrt and Climate Change
enthrall.Right there is about as Unamerican as a Boston Red Sox pitcher using a sneaky
spitball pitch.Remind me to never visit Boston.With all those rowdy Sports fans and drunken
Catholics and Uppity Colleges,it's a fitting place for a Devil to be on some ballot.

 

[TypicalRussian]

Boston is a good city

 

[TypicalRussian]

Markey is advertising being proud of his MoVeOn.org endorsemanrt and Climate Change
enthrall.Right there is about as Unamerican as a Boston Red Sox pitcher using a sneaky
spitball pitch.Remind me to never visit Boston.With all those rowdy Sports fans and drunken
Catholics and Uppity Colleges,it's a fitting place for a Devil to be on some ballot.

Boston is a good city, dont judge it on how they vote

 

[JANFU]

Looks like Joe couldn't wait. Now he's likely to lose.

Election 2020

The Markey-Kennedy Senate primary battle is one Democrats wish wasn’t happening

Ed Markey has never lost an election. No Kennedy has ever lost in the state. Who will win is anyone’s guess.

• By Roxanne Roberts

". . . Kennedy’s early lead has been erased; Markey has pulled into a double-digit lead in some polls. But the race is seen as too close to call, and both campaigns say they expect to win by bringing out a record number of first-time voters: Young progressives for Markey; minorities and other underrepresented communities for Kennedy.

The Globe’s endorsement of Markey last month was a blow to the Kennedy camp, which dismissed it as pandering to the paper’s “disproportionately white, well-off, well-educated readers.” Markey has racked up other endorsements (Warren, MoveOn.org), cutting further into Kennedy’s support. . . "

My guess- Kennedy loses- ran to early, and Pelosi ended up endorsing Kennedy- that will not sit well with the no support for those challenging an incumbent

 

[poweRob]

My guess- Kennedy loses- ran to early, and Pelosi ended up endorsing Kennedy- that will not sit well with the no support for those challenging an incumbent

Her excuse was that rule was for the House which she leads and not the Senate. So she supported her fellow congressman. I don't buy that bullcrap but that is how she weaseled her excuse.