Marijuana, fights, guns: Zimmerman loses key pretrial battles

[buck]

In one interview George claims he was punched in the face more than two dozen times.. In another he says more than a dozen.

Which is what I indicated. You seem to think Z should have been moving the pebbles of an abacus each time he was hit. Not quite how it works. He is taking a best guess after an (alleged) traumatic event. The fact that he really doesn't know how many times he was hit, shoudln't surprise anyone.

If he had been smart, he would have answered, I have no idea but it sure felt like a hella lot. Because, that would have been the most likely truthful answer. The entire fight lasted about 40 seconds - not enough time for that many hits. He was not hit that many times. I don't believe George is lying, he just doens't even know due to what I stated above. This is not unusual.

 

[Paperview]

...
As for the number of punches, i've already indicated, that when you are going through such an experience, things can (and often do) seem very warped.
...

First you asked me for proof and where I got that number, stating you didn't think I'd be able to provide it.

I did. And now it's back to handwaving it away and quibbling about whether he actually was hit that many times.

As I said, defend every single thing about your boy ...every. single. thing.

These discussions after more than a year just go round and round and round and round on the beyond-logic Excuse Carousel.

 

[buck]

First you asked me for proof and where I got that number, stating you didn't think I'd be able to provide it.

I did. And now it's back to handwaving it away and quibbling about whether he actually was hit that many times.

Obviously your super sleuthing skills have failed. Let me give you a hint:

You may want to compare the two statements you made for why they are not at all the same and why your initial claim was proven false - by you, none the less.

 

[sharon]

Which is what I indicated. You seem to think Z should have been moving the pebbles of an abacus each time he was hit. Not quite how it works. He is taking a best guess after an (alleged) traumatic event. The fact that he really doesn't know how many times he was hit, shoudln't surprise anyone.

If he had been smart, he would have answered, I have no idea but it sure felt like a hella lot. Because, that would have been the most likely truthful answer. The entire fight lasted about 40 seconds - not enough time for that many hits. He was not hit that many times. I don't believe George is lying, he just doens't even know due to what I stated above. This is not unusual.

I think George is exaggerating for all the obvious reasons.

And you are right that he should have said, "I don't know".

For me the problem is George's behavior and complete lack of judgment. He behaved suspiciously, didn't wait for the police, didn't identify himself... I think he would have caused many people to fear him.. especially if they were not doing anything illegal.

In fact.. some residents didn't not approve of George's methods.

Driving around at night with your lights out is pretty aggressive... as is following residents home and challenging visitors during the day time hours.

 

[Excon]

Since I am not a lawyer or any kind of legal eagle I tend to bring my personal experience to this.

I have been a critical care RN for 30 plus years. Having your head slammed once against concrete can be serious or deadly. Multiple times? Hardly seems right that he did not have any major symptoms of major head injury or a diagnosis of major head injury.

The other part of this that is weird to me is the lack of significant bleeding. Initially the photo that was shown was with his head cleaned up - then after they showed the "bleeding photo" lots of people had an "OMG moment" over the amount of blood. I was perplexed. Head injuries bleed ALOT. What I saw was not much at all. I am just not getting how he can have his head slammed against concrete multiple times and have that little blood and no traumatic brain injury. This isn't the movies where John McClain gets tortured and has his head slammed repeatedly against things and yippeekayehs and walks away smirking, This is real life where slamming head against concrete can cause grave harm.

I will be curious to hear medical testimony about the head injury as it relates to the testimony.

I do not believe what you say about your "personal experience". What you say, flies in the face of reality.
It is like you came into this forum with a singular intent.
You keep saying things that get shown to be wrong yet you continue on ignoring that like it just doesn't matter.

 

[buck]

For me the problem is George's behavior and complete lack of judgment. He behaved suspiciously, didn't wait for the police, didn't identify himself... I think he would have caused many people to fear him.. especially if they were not doing anything illegal.

Wether I agree/disagree to this is unimportant. Regardles of how you feel, none of it gives Trayvon's the right to attack George with a punch to the nose and continuing the attack.

I notice you still won't detail how George recieved all of his injuries. You've managed to detail one... but you somehow stop there.

I really want to know how you expect George received the likely broken nose. How he recieved the two cuts to the back of his head. How he received all the brusing on his face/head.

A sprinkler head couldn't have possibly have done all of that, but I really do want to hear your theory. For some reason you are hesitant to priovide it.

 

[sharon]

Wether I agree/disagree to this is unimportant. Regardles of how you feel, none of it gives Trayvon's the right to attack George with a punch to the nose and continuing the attack.

I notice you still won't detail how George recieved all of his injuries. You've managed to detail one... but you somehow stop there.

I really want to know how you expect George received the likely broken nose. How he recieved the two cuts to the back of his head. How he received all the brusing on his face/head.

A sprinkler head couldn't have possibly have done all of that, but I really do want to hear your theory. For some reason you are hesitant to priovide it.

The injuries were tiny lacerations well towards the top of his head.

I think George grabbed at TM to detain him, slipped and.. George certainly could have hit one of the utility boxes or a pop up sprinkler... or backed into that tree with all the stobby limbs.. His account of reeling and stumbling in the reenactment make that a distinct possibility.

If he grabbed at Trayvon.. he could have taken an elbow to the nose.

I am old and I have pretty good radar... I think George lies like a rug... and the Hannity interview cinched it for me.

 

[Excon]

Taaffe told the media.. anyone who would listen ... that he was NW in order to insert himself into the story.. but he was not.

George said goons or coons... its an oon sound.

No sharon. You have failed at showing anythiong you have asserted is true.
As a matter of fact, we know they are not true.

George's attorney for 2005-2006 talks about Georges legal history.

Attorney Zahra Umansky discusses her previous legal experience with Zimmerman, says she doesn't think he's a violent person – Starting Point - CNN.com Blogs

He doesn't listen and has a history of taking matters into his own hands. He did assault the ABC officer AFTER The officer identified himself.

No sharon. Were you not listening to what she said?
She clearly said Alleged.
Do yo not know what that means?

That means Alleged, not that he did do those things. It means alleged.

That's the question.. George's injuries were minor and inconsistent with the beating George describes.

No, that is not the question.
His injuries ARE consistent.

The question is, was his fear of great bodily harm or loss of life reasonable.
Under the conditions of getting your head slammed into the ground where he said he felt like he was going to black out, more than qualifies as being reasonable.
A person going for your gun with the stated intent of murdering you, also more than qualifies as being reasonable.

The EMT said they treated George for 5 minutes... cleaned him up with peroxide.. He also said that his head had stopped bleeding by the time they arrived.

That an error.. Trayvon was dead before 7:30 PM.. George was treated in the squad car for 5 minutes and then driven to SPD 15 minutes away .... arriving before 8 PM. The EMTs put the time in their report.

No that wasn't an error. Your statements were the errors.

George injuries were minor.. They knew that upon examining him.

No sharon they were not.
Two lacerations, multiple impact abrasions, bruising and swelling is not minor. No matter how you want to spin it.
Nor does it mater to the fear he experienced while receiving those injuries.

 

[buck]

The injuries were tiny lacerations well towards the top of his head.

I think George grabbed at TM to detain him, slipped and.. George certainly could have hit one of the utility boxes or a pop up sprinkler... or backed into that tree with all the stobby limbs.. His account of reeling and stumbling in the reenactment make that a distinct possibility.

If he grabbed at Trayvon.. he could have taken an elbow to the nose.

While you haven't provided nearly enough to account for all of the injuries.. >Here seems to be what we have so far...

George grabbed at Trayvon, accidentally took an elbow to the nose (causing a likely break). Then, George fell into a utility box, sprinkler head or tree causing two cuts to the back of his head.

Then, in your opinion, what occured to cause all the brusing (multiple) on George face/head?

 

[Excon]

First you asked me for proof and where I got that number, stating you didn't think I'd be able to provide it.

I did. And now it's back to handwaving it away and quibbling about whether he actually was hit that many times.

As I said, defend every single thing about your boy ...every. single. thing.

These discussions after more than a year just go round and round and round and round on the beyond-logic Excuse Carousel.

YOu seem to be confused again.
You haven't proved Zimmerman said it was that many times.

And how's this...a few minutes after the boy Zimmerman had killed was pronounced dead - where he said he was in fear of imminent death --- GZ's breathing, heart rate, and pulse were measured by EMT's as all being normal.

There you go showing those "powerful research skillz" again. (Cough)
It was not a few minutes.
The EMT testified it took a while to clean him up. And going by what buck provided, a while is far more than a few minutes.
But it is nice to see you spin another yarn.

He had only been in the back of the patrol car a few minutes, was in handcuffs, had been witnessing paramedics do CPR on the boy he had just killed, and was supposedly -- just a few minutes earlier, in deadly fear of losing his life after experiencing a violent attack on his body.

Return to a full normal heartrate, pulse, respiration, skin color, skin moisture, mucous membrane, etc -- in those conditions is, for most people, quite an abnormality.

I don't understand?
If you have powerful research skillz as you state, why do you have the facts wrong?
It was more than a few minutes.

And my understanding is that most peoples vitals return to normal relatively quickly.
So you really have no points.

We've heard the testimony of that EMT, and he also said 45 percent of his head was covered in blood.

Not even the strongest Zimbot can look at that police car photo, (front) along with the one taken by the witness (back) - and say it was 45% covered in blood.

First of all. The EMT said it. Are you saying he was lying?
Secondly, the photos taken immediately after he was beaten would show more blood if they had been taken at the moment the EMT started to clean him up.
So you are not making any sense here.

And how do you have a head that is supposedly nearly half covered in blood not be stained by blood on the collar of his shirt and jacket ? Not even a noticeable drop?

Why would there be? Are you supposen' he was sitting there shaking his head like a dog would to dry off?
You are not being realistic.
The blood coming from the back of his head was following the path of least resistance, not jumping to his jacket.
The blood coming from his nose was being impeded by the hair on his lip.
Even the position he was seated in made it possible for him to lean forward to not get any blood from his nose on himself.
You are just wildly speculating without any basis in fact.

EMT's measured his breathing as normal. How does one suffer a broken nose and within minutes have normal breathing?

Peoples vitals return to normal.
Why do you find that strange?
If you think it should take longer please provide the proof that it should.
But based on Oscar63's statement, you are going to be hard pressed to show that they wouldn't.

How does one get his head bashed on concrete a couple dozen times and a few minutes later deny any neck or back pain?

Was his neck being bashed?
Was his back being bashed?
When you answer those questions I think you will have your answer.
And secondly, it isn't like he just allowed his head to be freely slammed.
He was obviously, like anybody else would do, resisting it. And with that resisting comes a lighter impact.
Damn, it's like some folks just don't think things through thoroughly.

How does the person who did this pounding violence not have any DNA of that "victim" on his hands?

Why would he?
Do you get pigskin DNA on your hands when you are palming the ball? Nope. Same thing.
You do not have to even grab to slam someones head into the ground, only push.

Within minutes of hearing that EMT being questioned by FDLE (I listened to all the tapes, some more than once)

- I knew he was a Zimmerman sympathizer. He was hostile in his answers, and showed a clear ...attitude in his tone and answers ...

BS. That resides totally within your own thoughts, which you have shown are biased.

So now GZ is equivalent to a war zone soldier trained to kill?

Are you sure you wanted to make that comparison?

I got to laugh.
Bering trained to kill for most soldiers is being trained to aim and pull a trigger. You don't thin Zimmerman knew how to do that?

And he is older than Zimmerman, his vitals returning to normal would be indicative of a younger non-athletic persons vitals returning to normal.

"mucous membrane is normal" & all of Zimmerman's injuries have "minor bleeding."

And?

How about this? Alllllll those punches to his nose, and by some strange magic, every one missed his lips.

Gawd! You have no point.

Who gets punched in the nose a couple dozen times without even needing an ice pack?

A lot of people.

But lets see if you can comprehend this.
The extent of his injuries matter not to the fear he experienced while receiving them.
Your focus on them is ridiculous.

 

[sharon]

No sharon. You have failed at showing anythiong you have asserted is true.
As a matter of fact, we know they are not true.



No sharon. Were you not listening to what she said?
She clearly said Alleged.
Do yo not know what that means?

That means Alleged, not that he did do those things. It means alleged.




No, that is not the question.
His injuries ARE consistent.

The question is, was his fear of great bodily harm or loss of life reasonable.
Under the conditions of getting your head slammed into the ground where he said he felt like he was going to black out, more than qualifies as being reasonable.
A person going for your gun with the stated intent of murdering you, also more than qualifies as being reasonable.






No that wasn't an error. Your statements were the errors.


No sharon they were not.
Two lacerations, multiple impact abrasions, bruising and swelling is not minor. No matter how you want to spin it.
Nor does it mater to the fear he experienced while receiving those injuries.

George was oblivious as to how his behavior affected others.

 

[Excon]

George was oblivious as to how his behavior affected others.

There you go making assumption again. What a shame.

 

[buck]

George was oblivious as to how his behavior affected others.

Sharon, you must have missed my question. So, allow me to ask again.

While you haven't provided nearly enough to account for all of the injuries.. >Here seems to be what we have so far...

George grabbed at Trayvon, accidentally took an elbow to the nose (causing a likely break). Then, George fell into a utility box, sprinkler head or tree causing two cuts to the back of his head.

Then, in your opinion, what occured to cause all the brusing (multiple) on George face/head?

 

[ric27]

I would think it would go right to the point. If his injuries do not match with his statement about having his head slammed against the concrete - then the might not only perceive him to be lying about that account, but other things as well. If having his head slammed against concrete multiple times was the imminent harm and it is found that the injuries could not have occurred as he stated, then imminent harm seems less likely.

But like I said, I am only viewing photos - and the bleeding one is unimpressive to me - I am curious too see if there is any medical testimony that will contradict Zimmerman's account.


Has anybody ever thought about what ZImmerman would have done without a gun. He probably would have reported to police what he saw and stayed in his car. YMMV.

Get any reasonable person on these forums (like in Z's situation) would not believe himself/herself to be in imminent danger of serious bodily or even death if the person who had just fractured his/her nose and slammed his/her head into the ground didn't stop?....Just continue to keep slamming his/her head to the ground, eh?


YOU...... as the rest on these forums would have done the same thing as Z


Get freaking serious

 

[sharon]

There you go making assumption again. What a shame.

If he was aware... he would have spoken up and diffused the situation.

 

[Excon]

If he was aware... he would have spoken up and diffused the situation.

And another assumption on your part.
™ was already engaged in his attack. Obviously there was nothing but a bullet that would have prevented him from carrying through.

 

[sharon]

And another assumption on your part.
™ was already engaged in his attack. Obviously there was nothing but a bullet that would have prevented him from carrying through.

George had ample time to speak to Trayvon.. twice.

 

[Excon]

George had ample time to speak to Trayvon.. twice.

Doesn't matter sharon.
Zimmerman was under no obligation to make contact with him. Nor should he.

Do you not realize that yet?

And the second time you refer to definitely wouldn't matter as we already know ™ was already engaged in his attack.
Apparently, nothing but a bullet would have stopped him at that point. Zimmerman's screaming for help sure didn't.

 

[ric27]

George had ample time to speak to Trayvon.. twice.

Wrong on all counts...Stop looking for excuses to hide M's criminal behavior

M had no legal right to assault Z...in the first place, unless you can justify M's physical attack on Z....

The issue is....you need evidence for that.

Where's your evidence to justify the attack?

 

[sharon]

Doesn't matter sharon.
Zimmerman was under no obligation to make contact with him. Nor should he.

Do you not realize that yet?

And the second time you refer to definitely wouldn't matter as we already know ™ was already engaged in his attack.
Apparently, nothing but a bullet would have stopped him at that point. Zimmerman's screaming for help sure didn't.

Actually George has obligations as a human being.

 

[mike2810]

Actually George has obligations as a human being.

yes he did. and if we "all" would just get along we would have no violance in the world.

That said. TM had the same obligations.

 

[ric27]

Actually George has obligations as a human being.

Just like the rest of us....to defend ourselves against criminals aka felonious assault

 

[sharon]

Just like the rest of us....to defend ourselves against criminals aka felonious assault

You can't hold George accountable for creating the situation, can you?

 

[longview]

You can't hold George accountable for creating the situation, can you?

George Zimmerman made a bad decision following a potentially dangerous suspect.
A bad decision, Yes, Illegal, NO.
Trayvon Martin made a bad decision to confront and assault an unknown person.
A bad decision, Yes, illegal, YES.
Trayvon Martin did not understand the risks of assaulting someone, and paid with his life.

 

[Goshin]

And how's this...a few minutes after the boy Zimmerman had killed was pronounced dead - where he said he was in fear of imminent death --- GZ's breathing, heart rate, and pulse were measured by EMT's as all being normal.

"Imminent fear of death" is a legal term that has nothing to do with emotions. There have been times I was in danger of death and if you'd taken my BP and pulse a few minutes later they'd be normal. Not everyone experiences a long-lasting emotional reaction to such situations.