Marijuana, fights, guns: Zimmerman loses key pretrial battles (1 Viewer)

[Paperview]

Since I am not a lawyer or any kind of legal eagle I tend to bring my personal experience to this.

I have been a critical care RN for 30 plus years. Having your head slammed once against concrete can be serious or deadly. Multiple times? Hardly seems right that he did not have any major symptoms of major head injury or a diagnosis of major head injury.

The other part of this that is weird to me is the lack of significant bleeding. Initially the photo that was shown was with his head cleaned up - then after they showed the "bleeding photo" lots of people had an "OMG moment" over the amount of blood. I was perplexed. Head injuries bleed ALOT. What I saw was not much at all. I am just not getting how he can have his head slammed against concrete multiple times and have that little blood and no traumatic brain injury. This isn't the movies where John McClain gets tortured and has his head slammed repeatedly against things and yippeekayehs and walks away smirking, This is real life where slamming head against concrete can cause grave harm.

I will be curious to hear medical testimony about the head injury as it relates to the testimony.

And how's this...a few minutes after the boy Zimmerman had killed was pronounced dead - where he said he was in fear of imminent death --- GZ's breathing, heart rate, and pulse were measured by EMT's as all being normal.

 

[year2late]

You have no idea of what you are saying....

The test is whether a person in Z's state reasonably believed he/she was in imminent danger of great bodily harm. Not only, the punches that Z received from M but what Z anticipated would happen to him if M did not stop....and M did not stop

The key word here is....imminent.... On what was about to happen or likely to happen soon to Z if M did not stop his attack. In those few seconds, the fear of serious bodily harm death sets in

I would think it would go right to the point. If his injuries do not match with his statement about having his head slammed against the concrete - then the might not only perceive him to be lying about that account, but other things as well. If having his head slammed against concrete multiple times was the imminent harm and it is found that the injuries could not have occurred as he stated, then imminent harm seems less likely.

But like I said, I am only viewing photos - and the bleeding one is unimpressive to me - I am curious too see if there is any medical testimony that will contradict Zimmerman's account.


Has anybody ever thought about what ZImmerman would have done without a gun. He probably would have reported to police what he saw and stayed in his car. YMMV.

 

[buck]

And how's this...a few minutes after the boy Zimmerman had killed was pronounced dead - where he said he was in fear of imminent death --- GZ's breathing, heart rate, and pulse were measured by EMT's as all being normal.

When the EMT's arrived, they first worked on Martin a bit. Then they moved onto Zmimerman. I've posted a cite for this before, and i believe it was at least 20 minutes until they examined Zimm. 20 minutes is more than enough time for respiration and heart rate to return to normal.

 

[sharon]

When the EMT's arrived, they first worked on Martin a bit. Then they moved onto Zmimerman. I've posted a cite for this before, and i believe it was at least 20 minutes until they examined Zimm. 20 minutes is more than enough time for respiration and heart rate to return to normal.

That an error.. Trayvon was dead before 7:30 PM.. George was treated in the squad car for 5 minutes and then driven to SPD 15 minutes away .... arriving before 8 PM. The EMTs put the time in their report.

 

[buck]

But like I said, I am only viewing photos - and the bleeding one is unimpressive to me - I am curious too see if there is any medical testimony that will contradict Zimmerman's account.

There really isn't. The PA indicates he likely had a broken nose, the EMT testified under oath that his nose was broken, his head was covered in blood and it was believed he would probably need stitches.

George Zimmerman's Dad Testifies Voice Howling for Help Was His Son - ABC News

EMT Kevin O'Rourke testified during Zimmerman's bond hearing this morning that "45 percent" of Zimmerman's head had blood on it and that the lacerations on Zimmerman's head "would probably need stitches."

O'Rourke also testified that Zimmerman's nose was broken and urged him to see a doctor within 24 hours.

The EMT examined Zimmerman after having checked on Martin, who had died after being shot by Zimmerman.

Some will claim the EMT is lying and the PA is just wrong. As you say... YMMV.

 

[buck]

That an error.. Trayvon was dead before 7:30 PM.. George was treated in the squad car for 5 minutes and then driven to SPD 15 minutes away .... arriving before 8 PM. The EMTs put the time in their report.

You are correct. I was wrong. It was actually 23 minutes.. give or take a few seconds.

7:16:55 — Gunshot heard on 911 call.[16]
7:17 — Officer T. Smith (first there) arrives in squad car at Retreat View.[17]
7:17:40+ — Officer Smith arrives at crime scene.[18]
7:19:07 — Photo taken of Zimmerman's head injuries by a civilian bystander.[19]
7:19:43 — Officer Smith takes Zimmerman into custody.[18]
7:25+ — Sanford police take a photo of George Zimmerman in a squad car.[20]
7:30 — Trayvon Martin pronounced dead at the scene by paramedic.[17]
7:40 — Sanford Fire Department treats Zimmerman for his injuries.[21]

 

[sharon]

You are correct. I was wrong. It was actually 23 minutes.. give or take a few seconds.

7:16:55 — Gunshot heard on 911 call.[16]
7:17 — Officer T. Smith (first there) arrives in squad car at Retreat View.[17]
7:17:40+ — Officer Smith arrives at crime scene.[18]
7:19:07 — Photo taken of Zimmerman's head injuries by a civilian bystander.[19]
7:19:43 — Officer Smith takes Zimmerman into custody.[18]
7:25+ — Sanford police take a photo of George Zimmerman in a squad car.[20]
7:30 — Trayvon Martin pronounced dead at the scene by paramedic.[17]
7:40 — Sanford Fire Department treats Zimmerman for his injuries.[21]

You know that there were several EMTs at the scene that night.

 

[sharon]

There really isn't. The PA indicates he likely had a broken nose, the EMT testified under oath that his nose was broken, his head was covered in blood and it was believed he would probably need stitches.

George Zimmerman's Dad Testifies Voice Howling for Help Was His Son - ABC News



Some will claim the EMT is lying and the PA is just wrong. As you say... YMMV.

I posted the video of the EMTs testimony yesterday. He said the blood on George's head was dry by the time they cleaned him up.

 

[buck]

You know that there were several EMTs at the scene that night.

So, not only is the EMT lying under oath and the PA incorrect... But now the EMS is forging the documenation. Well done. You've uncovered the mystery.

 

[sharon]

So, not only is the EMT lying under oath and the PA incorrect... But now the EMS is forging the documenation. Well done. You've uncovered the mystery.

Why would either lie? Lie for George?

George injuries were minor.. They knew that upon examining him.

 

[OscarB63]

And how's this...a few minutes after the boy Zimmerman had killed was pronounced dead - where he said he was in fear of imminent death --- GZ's breathing, heart rate, and pulse were measured by EMT's as all being normal.

and how's this...a few minutes after a roadside bombing and fire fight with snipers --- my breathing, heart rate, and pulse were measured as all being normal. :shrug:

 

[Paperview]

When the EMT's arrived, they first worked on Martin a bit. Then they moved onto Zmimerman. I've posted a cite for this before, and i believe it was at least 20 minutes until they examined Zimm. 20 minutes is more than enough time for respiration and heart rate to return to normal.

He had only been in the back of the patrol car a few minutes, was in handcuffs, had been witnessing paramedics do CPR on the boy he had just killed, and was supposedly -- just a few minutes earlier, in deadly fear of losing his life after experiencing a violent attack on his body.

Return to a full normal heartrate, pulse, respiration, skin color, skin moisture, mucous membrane, etc -- in those conditions is, for most people, quite an abnormality.

 

[buck]

Why would either lie? Lie for George?

George injuries were minor.. They knew that upon examining him.

Exactly. Why would he lie when he indicated he would probably need stitches.... had a broken nose... covered in blood? It doesn't make much sense for them to lie for George, does sit?

 

[buck]

He had only been in the back of the patrol car a few minutes, was in handcuffs, had been witnessing paramedics do CPR on the boy he had just killed, and was supposedly -- just a few minutes earlier, in deadly fear of losing his life after experiencing a violent attack on his body.

Return to a full normal heartrate, pulse, respiration, skin color, skin moisture, mucous membrane, etc -- in those conditions is, for most people, quite an abnormality.

You keep saying a few minutes. The evidence states it was 20 minutes. Sure. Very possible and likely.

 

[Paperview]

There really isn't. The PA indicates he likely had a broken nose, the EMT testified under oath that his nose was broken, his head was covered in blood and it was believed he would probably need stitches.

Some will claim the EMT is lying and the PA is just wrong. As you say... YMMV.

An EMT cannot diagnose a broken nose. You should know better.
We've heard the testimony of that EMT, and he also said 45 percent of his head was covered in blood.

Not even the strongest Zimbot can look at that police car photo, (front) along with the one taken by the witness (back) - and say it was 45% covered in blood.

And how do you have a head that is supposedly nearly half covered in blood not be stained by blood on the collar of his shirt and jacket ? Not even a noticeable drop?

EMT's measured his breathing as normal. How does one suffer a broken nose and within minutes have normal breathing? How does one get his head bashed on concrete a couple dozen times and a few minutes later deny any neck or back pain?

How does the person who did this pounding violence not have any DNA of that "victim" on his hands?

 

[Paperview]

Exactly. Why would he lie when he indicated he would probably need stitches.... had a broken nose... covered in blood? It doesn't make much sense for them to lie for George, does sit?

Within minutes of hearing that EMT being questioned by FDLE (I listened to all the tapes, some more than once)

- I knew he was a Zimmerman sympathizer. He was hostile in his answers, and showed a clear ...attitude in his tone and answers that led me to think he would be the one Defense would use primarily.

Sure enough, at the hearing where GZ had to return to court because he lied to judge about money and passport in his application for bond, and had been thrown back in jail for doing that -- there he was: Kevin O'Rourke -- put on the witness stand by the defense, even before the trial and saying ridiculous things like "his head was 45% covered in blood."

 

[buck]

An EMT cannot diagnose a broken nose. You should know better.

His impression is the same as the PA that saw hhim the next day. Zimm likely had a broken nose. The two people that medically examined him both state the same thing. The individuals that didn't examine and are biased against him claim they are wrong. Who do you really think I should beleive?

We've heard the testimony of that EMT, and he also said 45 percent of his head was covered in blood.

Not even the strongest Zimbot can look at that police car photo, (front) along with the one taken by the witness (back) - and say it was 45% covered in blood.

Do we know if the pic in the cruiser was taken prior of after the clean up by the EMT? Because the EMT indicates in his interview, even before being called to teh stand, that there was substntial blood on Zimmerman and it took a while to clean up. Why is this EMT willing to face perjruy charges for George, who he doesn't even know?

EMT's measured his breathing as normal. How does one suffer a broken nose and within minutes have normal breathing? How does one get his head bashed on concrete a couple dozen times and a few minutes later deny any neck or back pain?

After 20 minutes? You and I are just gonig to have to disagree here. BP and breathing can return to norm after 20 mintues of sitting. This doesn't surprise me at all. I'm actuall surprised it surprises you so much.

And I have already indicated, I doubt George had his head hit into concrete a couple of dozen times. (Can you provide a cite of George indicating this, BTW?).

He probably had his head hit into the sidewalk a few times.. When you are involved in this type of encounter you are not counting the number of times your head is hit and things can feel like tehy are very drawn out. For example, the entire fight only took 40 seconds or so... It probably felt like much longer then that to Z. Just like he only had his head hit into teh concrete a few times.. It probably felt like many more to Z.

I really am interested in a cite to the 24 times he had his head hit into the concrete. I have a feeling you won't provide it, though.

 

[Paperview]

"mucous membrane is normal" & all of Zimmerman's injuries have "minor bleeding."

How about this? Alllllll those punches to his nose, and by some strange magic, every one missed his lips. Go figger.

In addition, the night at the Police Station, GZ didn't even ask for as much as an ice pack. Who gets punched in the nose a couple dozen times without even needing an ice pack?

 

[buck]

Within minutes of hearing that EMT being questioned by FDLE (I listened to all the tapes, some more than once)

- I knew he was a Zimmerman sympathizer. He was hostile in his answers, and showed a clear ...attitude in his tone and answers that led me to think he would be the one Defense would use primarily.

Sure enough, at the hearing where GZ had to return to court because he lied to judge about money and passport in his application for bond, and had been thrown back in jail for doing that -- there he was: Kevin O'Rourke -- put on the witness stand by the defense, even before the trial and saying ridiculous things like "his head was 45% covered in blood."

Oy vey. Anyone that doesn't say exactly what you want to hear is a "Z-licker" The media, the witnesses, the EMt, the PA.... Anyway, he originally only indicated that his head was covered in blood and it took a while to clean up (as there was so much). He only came up with the 45% number because the investigator (was it Gilbreath?) asked him to quantify it.

 

[buck]

"mucous membrane is normal" & all of Zimmerman's injuries have "minor bleeding."

How about this? Alllllll those punches to his nose, and by some strange magic, every one missed his lips. Go figger.

Who said all those punches were to his nose? He had many punches to his face/head. He has evidence of this with multiple bruises on his head/face.

 

[Paperview]

...
I really am interested in a cite to the 24 times he had his head hit into the concrete. I have a feeling you won't provide it, though.

Serino: OK. Another thing too as far as 25 and 30 punches, I’ve consulted with a lot of people, not quite consistent with your injuries.


Was Serino just making up that number?

 

[Paperview]

Do we know if the pic in the cruiser was taken prior of after the clean up by the EMT?
....

You didn't seriously just ask this question, did you?

 

[buck]

Serino: OK. Another thing too as far as 25 and 30 punches, I’ve consulted with a lot of people, not quite consistent with your injuries.


Was Serino just making up that number?

Let's see if you can figure out why you were wrong here. This will be a tough one... so you may have to put your "super sleuthing" skills to the test:

How does one get his head bashed on concrete a couple dozen times and a few minutes later deny any neck or back pain?

Serino: OK. Another thing too as far as 25 and 30 punches, I’ve consulted with a lot of people, not quite consistent with your injuries.

As for the number of punches, i've already indicated, that when you are going through such an experience, things can (and often do) seem very warped.

If he will, i'll let Excon speak to the number of hits, though..> As i've seen him post the actual nubmers more than once.. And I just don't recall or find it all that important considering the totality of hte event and the warping I just discussed.

 

[Paperview]

and how's this...a few minutes after a roadside bombing and fire fight with snipers --- my breathing, heart rate, and pulse were measured as all being normal. :shrug:

So now GZ is equivalent to a war zone soldier trained to kill?

Are you sure you wanted to make that comparison?

 

[sharon]

Let's see if you can figure out why you were wrong here. This will be a tough one... so you may have to put your "super sleuthing" skills to the test:



As for the number of punches, i've already indicated, that when you are going through such an experience, things can (and often do) seem very warped.

If he will, i'll let Excon speak to the number of hits, though..> As i've seen him post the actual nubmers more than once.. And I just don't recall or find it all that important considering the totality of hte event and the warping I just discussed.

In one interview George claims he was punched in the face more than two dozen times.. In another he says more than a dozen.