Manning out in the Cold.

[Ikari]

You're being sarcastic, right? At the end of the day, sports franchises are still businesses. There's few teams out there than can afford to be that generous to a player with significant injury concerns, even a player of Peyton's caliber. Front offices should always be making smart business decisions, because if you don't you're going to hamstring your own financial flexibility. Peyton at this point is not worth 28 million, and is a liability, plain and simple.

So the solution is an untested rookie QB you hope doesn't turn into the next Ryan Leaf? The best situation for Indy would be to keep Payton for awhile, let him play for another 2 or so years, bring up Luck underneath him so that when Payton needs to go (he doesn't have that much longer), you have a tested QB to take the reins.

No, they just threw him out, after he put Indy where they are at. I hope they repeat this season next year.

 

[Ikari]

Okay, I'll give you the pedestal. Tell me why Manning, a man with a losing playoff record on arguably the most dominating team of the last 15 years, is among the best ever.

I'm listening.

Payton is a good QB, better than his brother. Indy has been on a downhill slide for years with their defense falling to ****. The only reason they kept winning was because Payton could put up 40 points a game to overcome their D. And without Payton, you saw what happened to "arguably the most dominating team of the last 15 years", which isn't even true. As good as Payton is, the Colts are not one of the most dominating teams ever and the only reason they even have a SB win is because of Grossman. The Colts overall were one of the most overrated teams ever, Payton was just good enough to keep them going for all those years.

 

[andrew]

Growing up the the city of Indianapolis, I love the Colts. My dad took me his watch Manning and the Colts play when I was 10 years old, we had season tickets. Although it is a shame I won't be able to watch Manning play with the Colts anymore, I do not feel too upset about it. I think the Colts are moving forward. Getting a new head coach (about time) and a new quarterback, it will definitely be an interesting next season.

 

[poweRob]

One of the most overrated quarterbacks ever.

He had probably the best offensive line of the last 15-20 years, since the Cowboys dynasty ended. He usually had a Pro Bowl running back (Faulk, James, even Addai was serviceable in my book).

Forgot to note before that any running back at Indy under Peyton starting will be a great running back seeing how Peyton has the defense spread so wide you can drive a Mack truck through the holes at the line of scrimmage because they are far more terrified of the pass than the run when he is QB.

 

[poweRob]

Growing up the the city of Indianapolis, I love the Colts. My dad took me his watch Manning and the Colts play when I was 10 years old, we had season tickets. Although it is a shame I won't be able to watch Manning play with the Colts anymore, I do not feel too upset about it. I think the Colts are moving forward. Getting a new head coach (about time) and a new quarterback, it will definitely be an interesting next season.

I can't blame them for wanting to look forward. Just don't know if I'd do it the way they are doing it.

 

[randel]

One of the most overrated quarterbacks ever.

He had probably the best offensive line of the last 15-20 years, since the Cowboys dynasty ended. He usually had a Pro Bowl running back (Faulk, James, even Addai was serviceable in my book). Wide receivers? Yeah, he had a few. Defense was hit and miss throughout his time, but it wasn't totally empty.

He walked away with one Super Bowl ring, and that was by beating a mediocre Bears teams with Rex Grossman at the helm. Yeah. Grossman.

He was a fantasy league quarterback. He put up numbers. He put up wins in the regular season. Once the clock hit midnight and he had to go into extra innings, his coach turned back into a pumpkin and he was average at best.

Congratulations, Manning. I hope wherever you go involves you lying on the ground with a linebacker on top of you.

Piece of crap.

sure fire first ballot hall of famer....one of the top qb's of all time....

 

[Gipper]

sure fire first ballot hall of famer

I agree.

one of the top qb's of all time

I don't agree. Maybe if you threw in the words "regular season", I would agree.

 

[liblady]

I would think that having 2 AFC championships with that team is a disaster. The Patriots, outside of the quarterback, was inferior to the Colts even during their dynasty on a stat sheet basis. While Manning had Harrison and Wayne to throw to, Brady had...Deion Branch? Manning had Pettigrew for most of his career, while I bet you couldn't name the Pats TE pre-Welker. Manning gets Marshall Faulk and Edgerrin James. Brady gets BenJarvis Green-Ellis and Danny Woodhead. For a while, they had the younger and marginally talented Faulk.

And as I said, his SB win should have an asterisk because they beat one of the worst teams to ever make a SB.





He's not even the most intelligent or hardworking QB in his own franchise.



Yup, it's never his fault either - whether he blames his offensive line, or his "liquored-up" and "idiot" kicker. Swell guy. He's God and everyone is lucky to hold his jock.



He's still a top 5 QB in the league currently, but he's nowhere near the player some people think he is.

pettigrew? and yes, he IS loyal. ASk his teammates. what he said about vanderjagt was in response to him running his mouth about dungy and manning, which he had no business doing. believe what you want, but i would take him over just about every other qb any day.

 

[00timh]

The colts are idiots. Manning drops out for one year and they had a losing season and know they are not going to have a super bowl season next year so they cut him loose. I guess they like the way the dolphins do things and have no decent team, players, and no enthusiasm other than some die hard fans, but the revenue will plummet. The owner will still make money but only because he can pay low for the players. Sad day for the NFL, as another once quality team is being gutted by owner greed for himself and no one else.

 

[Helix]

after finally seeing the conference, i like Irsay even less, if that's possible. Manning seems to be a genuinely good dude.

considering how much the team is dependent on taxpayers, maybe Indiana should put decisions like this to a public referendum. as well as ticket /concession price points. that would be seriously funny.

 

[poweRob]

I agree.



I don't agree. Maybe if you threw in the words "regular season", I would agree.

If that's the case are you going to throw Dan Marino under the bus too for being an overrated QB who couldn't win a superbowl?



Just to clarify my position... Dan Marino was boss.

 

[Zyphlin]

Okay, I'll give you the pedestal. Tell me why Manning, a man with a losing playoff record on arguably the most dominating team of the last 15 years, is among the best ever.

I'm listening.

Bolded is a hint

The "dominating" of that team could easily be attributed largely to Peyton Manning.

Edge had two 1000 yard seasons after leaving the Colts (neither of them close to his two 1500 yard seasons the two preceeding years) and then two sub 550 yard years. Was it all him? Or was it partially being on an offense with Peyton Manning checking into run plays based on defensive calls and with the Defense having to contend with Peyton's arm?

Dominic Rhodes similarly has done little else after he left the Colts. And Addai has been far from a top caliber back even in the colts offense.

They had a Defense in the top 10 twice since 2000. Conversely they had a defense that was ranked 20th or worse 5 times.

Dallas Clark averaged 32 yards per game this year (He played in 11). The last three years he was healthy for the Colts he averaged 41, 56, and 69 in that order. Wayne averaged 60 yards a game this year without Manning. Its the first season since 2003 he's not eclipsed 1000 yards and his lowest average since that point. In 9 games last year Austin Collie managed 135 more yards then in all 16 games this year.

Manning's one reciever who was a 1,000 yard guy for him that left was Brandon Stokley. He never went for more than 650 after that. Harrison pre-Manning was averaging aorund 800 yards recieving. From 1999 to 2006, a season under 1200 yards was a poor one for him and a season around 1500 yards was the norm.

The Colts were a very good team. They had two good, possible great recievers, and a very good back in Edge. They had a hell of a pass rush as well. However, the Colts likely wouldn't be close to the most "dominating team" of the past 12 years if not for Peyton Manning.

Its fair to ding Peyton Manning for his post season failure and his seeming lack of "Clutch" when compared to his contempary, and fellow all time great, Tom Brady. However, one can't discount the absolutely dominating regular season's he's put together over this past decade. The lack of post season success may be a legitimate thing to keep him from being a "Greatest Ever" (similar to Marino). However, the fact that he does possess a Super Bowl ring and has put together arguably the most dominate decade of QB play in the modern era should be enough to qualify him in the discussion of ONE OF the greatest ever.

 

[Zyphlin]

The Patriots, outside of the quarterback, was inferior to the Colts even during their dynasty on a stat sheet basis.

Um, what? Are you just talking about Offense?

During the same time period the Patriots have had 5 top ten defenses, with one of those being top 5. They've had multiple hall of fame contender defensive players spread across the D-Line, LB, and Secondary.

The O-lines between the Colts and Patriots during that time also could be a relative wash.

What I will give you is Manning's WR's during the early days were absolutely worse than Peyton's top two guys during that time period. Then again, the last few years have made that closer to a wash as the Moss/Welker combination was arguably as good, if not better, than Peyton's.

Neither team has been steller for the whole time with RB. Edge had some great seasons. Dillon had one great season for the Pats but after that its mostly been by committee, with a few yeards of having two 700+ yard backs.

Manning had Pettigrew for most of his career, while I bet you couldn't name the Pats TE pre-Welker. Manning gets Marshall Faulk and Edgerrin James. Brady gets BenJarvis Green-Ellis and Danny Woodhead. For a while, they had the younger and marginally talented Faulk.

You're making it hard to take you seriously...

Manning's TE you're going for I'm guessing is....Dallas Clark?

Also, Wes Welker isn't a TE.

And furthermore, I'd put Corey Dillon (the guy who rushed for 1600 yards for the pats one season and was part of a dual 700+ yard backfield another year) and Laurence Maroney or Kevin Faulk up there before BJGE or Danny Woodhead. Funny that you take Brady's most current guys and put it up against Peyton's early backs rather than "Donald Brown and Joseph Addai".

Oh, and Manning did not have a young healthy Faulk for "a while"....he had him for one year, his rookie season.

And as I said, his SB win should have an asterisk because they beat one of the worst teams to ever make a SB.

That Bears team went 13-3. That Bears team had one of, if not the, greatest kick returner of all time. They had a top 5 defense and a 1200 yard back. Was Rex Grossman and their WR corps a problem? Absolutely. But they weren't significantly any worse than some other teams in the superbowl this decade such as the Cardinals or the Seahawks.

This is just ridiculous.

 

[Gina]

You're being sarcastic, right? At the end of the day, sports franchises are still businesses. There's few teams out there than can afford to be that generous to a player with significant injury concerns, even a player of Peyton's caliber. Front offices should always be making smart business decisions, because if you don't you're going to hamstring your own financial flexibility. Peyton at this point is not worth 28 million, and is a liability, plain and simple.

I would agree with that except for LeBron James. He got dumped on, justifiably in my book, for bailing on Cleveland for Miami. Manning made Indy competitive again and they dump him. I have to wonder if there was a way to re-negotiate with Peyton, since he only wanted to be a Colt, keep him on as a mentor for Luck (if they go that way) and then bounce him upstairs when he could no longer hack it. It would have been a win/win.

I know, I'm horribly naive. Maybe they did discuss something like that and Peyton wouldn't give.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

So at the bar watching the tv, thought i was watching the oj chase rehash, but it was manning going to denver or some such....

 

[Spaceman_Spiff]

I would think that having 2 AFC championships with that team is a disaster.

It is not as though they did not have competition. During the 2000s both the Steelers and Patriots had elite teams consistently that got the best of the Colts. The fact they were able to maintain a quality team for as long as they did is a testament in and of itself in today's NFL rife with parity. Much of that was due to having Peyton Manning as their quarterback.

The Patriots, outside of the quarterback, was inferior to the Colts even during their dynasty on a stat sheet basis. While Manning had Harrison and Wayne to throw to, Brady had...Deion Branch?

Zyphlin already picked apart your argument that the Patriots always had an inferior offense than the Patriots; so that argument I will ignore. But that you overlooked the Patriots' defense during the 2000s is more egregious.

While the Colts and Patriots both had similarly ranked defenses annually in many ways Tony Dungy's implementation of the Tampa 2 is very much a reason why the Colts could not do better during the playoffs. The Tampa 2 is a horrible enough scheme as it is, but the amount of size that Dungy gave up for increased speed was a huge reason why the did not do better during the playoffs. Add to it that it works well on turf but not on grass during winter and its inherent weakness against the power running, and you are looking at a team who is putting itself at a disadvantage before the game even begins. Both the Patriots and Steelers were able to take advantage of this.

Manning had Pettigrew for most of his career, while I bet you couldn't name the Pats TE pre-Welker.

First of all, the only team Brandon Pettigrew has ever played for is the Detroit Lions. I assume you were referring to Marcus Pollard.

As for the other tight ends before Rob Gronkowski and Aaron Hernandez came along, the answer to your question is Christian Fauria, Daniel Graham, and Ben Watson. Fauria is the worst of the group, but Graham and Watson were both key elements to their dink and dunk passing game.

Manning gets Marshall Faulk and Edgerrin James. Brady gets BenJarvis Green-Ellis and Danny Woodhead. For a while, they had the younger and marginally talented Faulk.

In many ways the Patriots were ahead of the trend in using the running back by committee. While the Patriots did not have a single running back as talented as Edgerrin James the way they were able to use their running backs as a whole gave them a more than serviceable running game and one that worked well with their ball control philosophy on offense.

And as I said, his SB win should have an asterisk because they beat one of the worst teams to ever make a SB.

This point goes both ways. The only great team the Patriots played in a Super Bowl was the 2001 Rams. Both the 2003 Panthers and 2004 Eagles were worse than the Bears team the Colts played.

With regard to the Colts cutting Manning, it was the right move to make. Manning is already past his prime recovering from a serious neck injury and now will be coming back to a team whose window to win another championship has closed. Factoring in the amount of money the Colts were liable for and this looks much better for them.

In the short term it may make the team worse, but over the long term it is in their best interest to focus on better drafting and development. Looking at the way they are purging their roster over the last few days of over the hill and expensive veterans this seems to be the way they are going. For that, I am applaud them.

 

[Gipper]

Yeah, I meant Pollard. I knew it started with a P. Still have some Lions fan in me.

Also, those defenses the Pats had, while very athletic, still lacked many that I could consider "superstar". They were beast because Belichick designed them that way. Would I count Vrabel as Pro Bowl caliber skill? No, I couldn't say that. Rodney Harrison was great, but I thought that he mostly played the best during his twilight years.

The Colts were probably the biggest waste of pure talent in multiple positions since the "Luv ya Blue" days of the Houston Oilers, where their roster read like a damn Pro Bowl lineup, and never could get to the big game.

 

[Spaceman_Spiff]

Also, those defenses the Pats had, while very athletic, still lacked many that I could consider "superstar". They were beast because Belichick designed them that way. Would I count Vrabel as Pro Bowl caliber skill? No, I couldn't say that. Rodney Harrison was great, but I thought that he mostly played the best during his twilight years.

First of all, very athletic is about the furthest adjective I would use to describe the Patriots defenses of the 2000s. What the defenses lacked in athleticism,though, they more than made up for it with intelligence and good fundamentals.

To go along with Vrabel and Harrison the Patriots had Richard Seymour, Vince Wilfork, Tedi Bruschi, Willie McGinest, Ty Law, and Asante Samuel. That alone is a talented defense without even mentioning solid contributors like Ty Warren, Ted Washington, Roosevelt Colvin, Adalius Thomas, and Eugene Wilson to name a few. Although their best defense statistically was in 2004, their most talented starting lineup was in 2007. Nothing the Colts put out on the field is comparable to the sheer talent that Patriots team had on defense.

The Colts were probably the biggest waste of pure talent in multiple positions since the "Luv ya Blue" days of the Houston Oilers, where their roster read like a damn Pro Bowl lineup, and never could get to the big game.

And this is where I think you are really overrating the talent the Colts had on defense during the 2000s. I was looking over their rosters and their starting defenses could never be mistaken for a Pro Bowl roster. They had their elite players like Dwight Freeney, Robert Mathis, and Bob Sanders, and Mike Petersen for a few years. Even their second tier talent was not that great, but they able to find good players that fit their scheme. Then the rest of their starters were the typical fodder that teams use to fill positions that are not of importance to their scheme.

If you have any years in particular that you are of thinking of, then by all means share them because right now I do not find a single year that satisfies your criteria.

 

[Tigger]

This is going to get even MORE interesting now that Andrew Luck AND Robert Griffith III are both out of the available quarterback pool. For those that missed it, the Washington Redskins acquired the #2 pick in the draft from the Rams on Saturday with the intention of picking whichever QB the Colts don't take.

 

[Gipper]

And this is where I think you are really overrating the talent the Colts had on defense during the 2000s. I was looking over their rosters and their starting defenses could never be mistaken for a Pro Bowl roster. They had their elite players like Dwight Freeney, Robert Mathis, and Bob Sanders, and Mike Petersen for a few years. Even their second tier talent was not that great, but they able to find good players that fit their scheme. Then the rest of their starters were the typical fodder that teams use to fill positions that are not of importance to their scheme.

You're talking one side of the ball. I concede that offense was clearly the better side of the ball with the Colts. They had very good defensive pieces, but their offense was crammed with Pro Bowlers. Manning, Harrison, James, at least two O-linemen...all they had to do is hold par.

The truth is that when they need Manning the most - the playoffs - he shrinks. If you compare his regular season numbers to his postseason numbers, you know why I won't put him in my top 10 to ever play. Top 25, sure. Ten, no.

This is not to say he sucks. I just say that he isn't nearly as good as the hype so many others seem to give him.

 

[VanceMack]

Looks like he may indeed be 'out in the cold'...playing for Denver. We'll see. Its supposed to be announced tomorrow where he has chosen to play.

 

[VanceMack]

This is going to get even MORE interesting now that Andrew Luck AND Robert Griffith III are both out of the available quarterback pool. For those that missed it, the Washington Redskins acquired the #2 pick in the draft from the Rams on Saturday with the intention of picking whichever QB the Colts don't take.

Sounds like they are sold on RG3...big mistake. They would have been better served going after Kellen Moore. Griffin is good but I think they packaged too much to get him. We'll see though...

 

[nathanjames1791]

Looks like he may indeed be 'out in the cold'...playing for Denver. We'll see. Its supposed to be announced tomorrow where he has chosen to play.

Nope he just scheduled meetings with the dolphins and the titans so its going to be a while till he announces his desicion. Apparently the titans really want him. The owner said he was going to pull out all the stops and I think miami will too. This is going to be interesting.

 

[nathanjames1791]

Sounds like they are sold on RG3...big mistake. They would have been better served going after Kellen Moore. Griffin is good but I think they packaged too much to get him. We'll see though...

Lol they basically sold their future. RG3 better have a heat seaking arm that places the ball in the hands of the reciever and carries them to the end zone. I was kinda hoping cleveland would get him just cuase it would have been interesting but no luck oh well.

 

[VanceMack]

Nope he just scheduled meetings with the dolphins and the titans so its going to be a while till he announces his desicion. Apparently the titans really want him. The owner said he was going to pull out all the stops and I think miami will too. This is going to be interesting.

He would be a better fit in Miami. Id rather see the Broncos get him and trade off Tebow...pick up a decent lineman or two. The Dolphins...they could afford him...but the organization just seems to keep making bad decisions...