Manafort team files response under seal to allegations that he lied to investigators

[year2late]

He has not had a trial. He was accused and jailed without the chance of rebuttal from the defense. He is there on a court order pushed by Mueller.

The judge ordered him place in prison, and was placed in solitary "for his protection" per Muellers request.

So for **** sake yourself for not putting in the time to get the story.

BTW, Mueller is creating crimes as he goes and and so far has none on Trump. And if he has anything it's not important enough to put a rush on it as if the republic is at stake.

Dude, he has had a trial and 8 convictions.

 

[Greenbeard]

What’s so significant about sharing polling data?

With a foreign intelligence service that was intervening in our election on the candidate's behalf?

 

[Hatuey]

He has not had a trial. He was accused and jailed without the chance of rebuttal from the defense. He is there on a court order pushed by Mueller.

Have the news of Manafort's trial not reached computers in California?

Lol.



Sent from Trump Plaza's basement using Putin's MacBook.

 

[apdst]

...enough times to build your little cocoon. Please, keep it up. Keep telling yourself that... you are making it your safe space. We can respect that, even if it isn't true.

May I point out to others that many (including me) have repeatedly told you (and documented with 3rd party support) that many of these things are indeed crimes. In fact, people around Trump have been charged and some plead guilty to some of these crimes. Crimes were committed.

... the only open question now is whether Trump, himself, is also guilty of some of these crimes or merely guilty of gross negligence in his hiring of so many criminals to direct his campaign and serve in his White House. We know Trump is guilty, we just haven't fully surveyed what he is guilty of....



Not a crime by itself, but evidence of a crime.

...but you can't come up with an actual crime that he's guilty of. :lamo

 

[apdst]

just because you don't seem to have an issue with what to some degree is treason to the US and it's people, doesn't mean others do think it is a crime and if Mueller thinks crimes have been committed we will just have to wait and see what a court of law and a jury of peers says about it.

Also, lying to the FBI is a crime and really stupid if you are someone who had a plea deal.

What people "think" is irrelevant. It's either a crime, or it isn't.

I don't know what kind of ass backeards system your country has, but here in The United States, that ain't how things work.

 

[What if...?]

Well let us see, the Trump campaign spends tens of thousands of dollars on polling, they find out where the votes are that can get them past the 270 electoral votes. They share that data with the Russians as to where the Russians need to focus their disinformation campaigns and slander campaigns among both Hillary voters (to dissuade them from voting) and to prod the conservatives who live there and were not planning to vote into going to the polls to stop Hillary killing baby's (for example).

They REALLY targeted the Bernie supporters.and some of them made protest votes or didn't vote at all. If that mattered we'll probably never know.

I voted for Hillary BECAUSE I voted for Nader in 2000. It didn't matter in California. But Nader votes almost certainly cost us Florida.

 

[Peter King]

What people "think" is irrelevant. It's either a crime, or it isn't.

I don't know what kind of ass backeards system your country has, but here in The United States, that ain't how things work.

Yes, but what you think is a crime (as well as what I think is a crime) is rather irrelevant to the proceedings. We will have to wait and see what Mueller prosecutes and what guilty verdicts are handed out to determine whether or not crimes have been committed.

I love my countries system of law, it is fairer, much more effective and does not need mass incarceration for decades to get a safe environment for our people to live in.

 

[Athanasius68]

Yes, but what you think is a crime (as well as what I think is a crime) is rather irrelevant to the proceedings. We will have to wait and see what Mueller prosecutes and what guilty verdicts are handed out to determine whether or not crimes have been committed.

The objection is that it should be able to be named that which law is alleged to have been violated of which the prosecutor and or police are investigating is Mrs Clinton was investigated for mishandling classified information which could have run her afoul of a specific code.

In this particular proceeding regards Trump & Co., nothing has been alleged. And for the purpose of this particular proceeding involving Manafort, it doesn't even seem to be the case that Mueller has said Manafort broke the law by sharing polling data. Just that he lied to him or the FBI about it.

 

[What if...?]

It's not a crime.

It's not a crime.

It's not a crime.

How many times do I have to say it?

Conspiracy IS a crime.

Criminal collusion is called "conspiracy".

So its OK to collude if such collusion breaks no laws.

Its OK to collude to get pick of a litter of puppies.

It is NOT OK to conspire with someone to steal that puppy

Its NOT OK to blackmail that puppy's owner to get them to give it to you for free.

I know you won't see the distinction.

But the rest of us will get a laugh at your inability to grasp the concept. Not a big laugh. We've heard that joke too many times.

 

[Peter King]

The objection is that it should be able to be named that which law is alleged to have been violated of which the prosecutor and or police are investigating is Mrs Clinton was investigated for mishandling classified information which could have run her afoul of a specific code.

In this particular proceeding regards Trump & Co., nothing has been alleged. And for the purpose of this particular proceeding involving Manafort, it doesn't even seem to be the case that Mueller has said Manafort broke the law by sharing polling data. Just that he lied to him or the FBI about it.

That is because Mueller keeps his cards close to his vest. The Hillary investigation was a free for all, media, leaks, etc. etc. Mueller is doing his job properly (or so it seems) but keeping his findings secret until his report is released or more people are arrested and then we will found out what laws were being violated.

 

[chuckiechan]

Have the news of Manafort's trial not reached computers in California?

Lol.



Sent from Trump Plaza's basement using Putin's MacBook.

Let me clarify, and you may feel free to prove me wrong.

Manafort is still in jail because his bail was revoked. He is not in jail due to his sentence. Yet. There is a difference:
If he was sentenced and jailed, that is one thing.
If he is in jail because his bail was revoked, that is another. The judge could release him in a minute.

You might argue that this is the same, but it is not. This is a tactic, not a punishment.

https://www.washingtonian.com/2018/...ill-in-the-alexandria-jail-what-happens-next/

Manafort was initially jailed in June when a federal judge revoked his bail. He’s been in the Alexandria jail since July 12, when Manafort was initially jailed in June when a federal judge revoked his bail. He’s been in the Alexandria jail since July 12, when Judge T.S. Ellis III, who oversaw the trial that ended yesterday, ordered a transfer from the Northern Neck, Virginia, facility that his lawyers complained was too far away and delaying trial preparations. However, when the move to Alexandria was approved, Manafort’s lawyers complained the change would be too unsettling so close to trial. Prosecutors argued that the federal inmate was given VIP status in Northern Neck, including access to his own phone and computer. Ultimately, the transfer proceeded., who oversaw the trial that ended yesterday, ordered a transfer from the Northern Neck, Virginia, facility that his lawyers complained was too far away and delaying trial preparations. However, when the move to Alexandria was approved, Manafort’s lawyers complained the change would be too unsettling so close to trial. Prosecutors argued that the federal inmate was given VIP status in Northern Neck, including access to his own phone and computer. Ultimately, the transfer proceeded.

IMO, Manafort is in solitary confinement to apply pressure to write the words to the tune Mueller has written, and to send a message to those in Trump's orbit that this can happen to them too if they don't compose the right song.

 

[apdst]

Conspiracy IS a crime.

Criminal collusion is called "conspiracy".

So its OK to collude if such collusion breaks no laws.

Its OK to collude to get pick of a litter of puppies.

It is NOT OK to conspire with someone to steal that puppy

Its NOT OK to blackmail that puppy's owner to get them to give it to you for free.

I know you won't see the distinction.

But the rest of us will get a laugh at your inability to grasp the concept. Not a big laugh. We've heard that joke too many times.

Conspiracy to commit a crime is a crime.

Sharing pollung data isn't a crime, no matter how much someone conspired to do so.

 

[apdst]

Yes, but what you think is a crime (as well as what I think is a crime) is rather irrelevant to the proceedings. We will have to wait and see what Mueller prosecutes and what guilty verdicts are handed out to determine whether or not crimes have been committed.

I love my countries system of law, it is fairer, much more effective and does not need mass incarceration for decades to get a safe environment for our people to live in.

I KNOW that sharing polling data isn't a crime.

 

[What if...?]

What people "think" is irrelevant. It's either a crime, or it isn't.

I don't know what kind of ass backeards system your country has, but here in The United States, that ain't how things work.

I chuckle every time I imagine your brain's reaction when you find out you're wrong.

You'll never admit it.

But I KNOW its gonna hurt!

 

[What if...?]

Let me clarify, and you may feel free to prove me wrong.

Manafort is still in jail because his bail was revoked. He is not in jail due to his sentence. Yet. There is a difference:
If he was sentenced and jailed, that is one thing.
If he is in jail because his bail was revoked, that is another. The judge could release him in a minute.

You might argue that this is the same, but it is not. This is a tactic, not a punishment.

https://www.washingtonian.com/2018/...ill-in-the-alexandria-jail-what-happens-next/



IMO, Manafort is in solitary confinement to apply pressure to write the words to the tune Mueller has written, and to send a message to those in Trump's orbit that this can happen to them too if they don't compose the right song.

If only manafort hadn't violated the terms of his bail, you might have a point.

He did though. And had his bail revoked. Was declared a flight risk, and I don't think even you can come up with a case as to why he ISN'T a flight risk.

So he doesn't get out. For that reason.

Had he not violated his bail, he wouldn't be in custody. I'm not even sure you are eligible for bail after violating bail on the instant case.

 

[What if...?]

Conspiracy to commit a crime is a crime.

Sharing pollung data isn't a crime, no matter how much someone conspired to do so.

I already gave you an example of illegal sharing of polling data.

The trolls were doing what a pac does. Unpaid, but the same function.

Indictments are already levied against the troll farmers.

Coordinating with them is conspiracy.

Everybody who laughed about those indictments now gets to see why I was amused by them.

Because anybody who participated (colluded by providing proprietary polling data, to be precise) is ALSO subject to conspiracy charges for the crimes charged. Even if none of those on the original indictment are ever brought to justice.

You can thank the drug war for that petard you're about to he hoisted on

 

[Peter King]

I KNOW that sharing polling data isn't a crime.

No, you do not know for sure it is not a crime, you suspect it is not a crime.

In the 1924 case Hammerschmidt v. United States, the Supreme Court of the United States, in an opinion authored by Chief Justice William Howard Taft, held that "To conspire to defraud the United States means primarily to cheat the government out of property or money, but it also means to interfere with or obstruct one of its lawful governmental functions by deceit, craft or trickery, or at least by means that are dishonest.

Why should colluding with Russia to cheat the electoral process (which is a lawful governmental function) by deceit, craft or trickery not be a crime?

https://www.justice.gov/jm/criminal-resource-manual-923-18-usc-371-conspiracy-defraud-us

The US penal code has many laws in it, you cannot for sure claim collusion is not prohibited under one of those laws, even if they call it something else.

 

[apdst]

No, you do not know for sure it is not a crime, you suspect it is not a crime.



Why should colluding with Russia to cheat the electoral process (which is a lawful governmental function) by deceit, craft or trickery not be a crime?

https://www.justice.gov/jm/criminal-resource-manual-923-18-usc-371-conspiracy-defraud-us

The US penal code has many laws in it, you cannot for sure claim collusion is not prohibited under one of those laws, even if they call it something else.

Feel free to show us where in the legal code sharing such information is illegal.

In this case, the electoral process wasn't tampered with. Hence, no crime. "Influencing" and election isn't illegal.

 

[apdst]

I already gave you an example of illegal sharing of polling data.

The trolls were doing what a pac does. Unpaid, but the same function.

Indictments are already levied against the troll farmers.

Coordinating with them is conspiracy.

Everybody who laughed about those indictments now gets to see why I was amused by them.

Because anybody who participated (colluded by providing proprietary polling data, to be precise) is ALSO subject to conspiracy charges for the crimes charged. Even if none of those on the original indictment are ever brought to justice.

You can thank the drug war for that petard you're about to he hoisted on

You people arenxt the least bit embarassed about the bull**** y'all post. Are you? :lamo

 

[apdst]

I chuckle every time I imagine your brain's reaction when you find out you're wrong.

You'll never admit it.

But I KNOW its gonna hurt!

In this instance, i'm not wrong.

 

[Peter King]

Feel free to show us where in the legal code sharing such information is illegal.

In this case, the electoral process wasn't tampered with. Hence, no crime. "Influencing" and election isn't illegal.

Again, you are mistaking your opinion for fact. If true that the Russians did tamper with the electoral process, then there may be a crime. Because this is not about influencing the election, it is about conspiring with a foreign enemy/state to use dishonest means to win an election.

If such a thing took place, it will be up to the grand jury, the judge and a jury to decide if it is a crime or not.

 

[apdst]

Again, you are mistaking your opinion for fact. If true that the Russians did tamper with the electoral process, then there may be a crime. Because this is not about influencing the election, it is about conspiring with a foreign enemy/state to use dishonest means to win an election.

If such a thing took place, it will be up to the grand jury, the judge and a jury to decide if it is a crime or not.

No, I'm stating fact: sharing information isn't a crime; even stolen information. It's literally protected by the 1st Amendment.

No...lol...a grand jury, judge, nor a jury decide what is, or isn't a crime. They decide if a person has committed a crime. In the case of of the grand jury, it decides if there's sufficient probable cause to warrant a trial. None of them decide what is, or isn't legal.

Also, we aren't at war with Russia. She isn't an "enemy".

 

[Peter King]

No, I'm stating fact: sharing information isn't a crime; even stolen information. It's literally protected by the 1st Amendment.

No...lol...a grand jury, judge, nor a jury decide what is, or isn't a crime. They decide if a person has committed a crime. In the case of of the grand jury, it decides if there's sufficient probable cause to warrant a trial. None of them decide what is, or isn't legal.

Also, we aren't at war with Russia. She isn't an "enemy".

Really? So when you collude/work with a foreign government to change the electoral results by deceit is not a crime? Really?

Well then we will have to wait and see what a competent judge/jury/grand jury thinks of this.

 

[apdst]

Really? So when you collude/work with a foreign government to change the electoral results by deceit is not a crime? Really?

Well then we will have to wait and see what a competent judge/jury/grand jury thinks of this.

Are you referring to election fraud?

 

[Peter King]

Are you referring to election fraud?

I am not talking about anything because I do not know that Mueller has in his "evidence". I am just going to wait and see what will happen.