Man Who Fired First Shots Behind Kyle Rittenhouse in Kenosha Has Been Charged

[ASHES]

The first man Rittenhouse killed was trying to disarm him, not "murder" him, and was killed himself. The other two men, one killed the other wounded by Rittenhouse, were also trying to disarm him, not "murder" him, for his having just killed a man. What you call "attacks" were to disarm, not harm. No one fired a gun at Rittenhouse. The only other gunfire than by Rittenhouse was a shot into the air. Rittenhouse illegally obtaining a firearm and in illegal possession going into what he knew was a volatile situation does not look like very good intent on his part.

There is so much factually wrong here, but I just have time to address the bolded part for now.

He is not allowed to do that. That is called theft and robbery and assault. He attempted to take the gun, when he touched it he became an armed robber committing battery. Kyle was 100% in his right to defend himself from the unlawful attempted taking of his firearm, after already attempting to flee his pursuer.

 

[Objective Voice]

The first man Rittenhouse killed was trying to disarm him, not "murder" him, and was killed himself. The other two men, one killed the other wounded by Rittenhouse, were also trying to disarm him, not "murder" him, for his having just killed a man. What you call "attacks" were to disarm, not harm. No one fired a gun at Rittenhouse. The only other gunfire than by Rittenhouse was a shot into the air. Rittenhouse illegally obtaining a firearm and in illegal possession going into what he knew was a volatile situation does not look like very good intent on his part.

Did I say he committed murder? If not, why are you harping on me?

I understand your perspective on this matter. I truly do! Initially, I saw this as a murder case myself, but I've seen other video footage since then which has led me to believe Rittenhouse acted in self-defense.

It's true that everyone he shot were either trying to disarm him or stop him before he shot anyone else, but when those initial shots were fired in close proximity to Rittenhouse and he realized he was being pursued by the first gun shot victim, I would think it would've been extremely difficult for him to think he wasn't under attack at that point. And then once he's leaving he most definitely comes under physical attack by one guy who hits him with his skateboard and then the other guy who initially halted his approach but then suddenly draws a gun at him. At that point, it's life or death because Rittenhouse has no way of knowing if his third assailant is just there to detain him - firearm-to-firearm - or shot him. So, he fires first on his second lunge toward him.

I want to make it clear: I am defending Rittenhouse based on the series of events that occurred, NOT because I think he acted in good faith. I still believe none of this would have happened had this 17 year old kid not brought a gun (riffle) to a hostile environment and had just stuck to rendering First Aid at the designated station.

 

[Fledermaus]

don't leave out Rush and Sean. they're the real puppet masters.

Joshua Ziminski was a Rush/Sean fan?

Who knew?

 

[bluesmoke]

There is so much factually wrong here, but I just have time to address the bolded part for now.

He is not allowed to do that. That is called theft and robbery and assault. He attempted to take the gun, when he touched it he became an armed robber committing battery. Kyle was 100% in his right to defend himself from the unlawful attempted taking of his firearm, after already attempting to flee his pursuer.

It was your OP. You linked the article that said the man "...has been charged with disorderly conduct and use of a dangerous weapon for firing his weapon..". You should read what you link. It didn't say anything about what you allege.

 

[ASHES]

It was your OP. You linked the article that said the man "...has been charged with disorderly conduct and use of a dangerous weapon for firing his weapon..". You should read what you link. It didn't say anything about what you allege.

I was speaking about the first Rittenhouse shooting, which is what the bolded part of your quoted post was talking about and is what I was responding to. I was clarifying that it doesn't matter if Rosenbaum was trying to disarm him or kill him, in either case, his response was reasonable.

 

[ClaraD]

That's no how it went down.

I can agree that the kid should have stuck to rendering First Aid and should never have brought a gun there, but I can also agree that IF I heard gun shots around me AND I was subsequently being chased by a guy or two - one of whom I had recently gotten into a verbal altercation with moments prior to shots being fired AND who just tried to take my weapons - I'd fire in self-defense, too.

1) I don't know where the shots are coming from, but I know I'm being pursued and under attack.
2) The environment is clearly hostile towards me. So, why would I stick around AFTER ensuring that the guy I just shot was receiving prompt attention (albeit by by-standers and not a trained paramedic).

I think the kid was wrong for bringing a firearm (long-gun) to Kenosha, but I think he was justified in firing in self-defense taking everything that happened into consideration.

Except he shot a guy that wasn't shooting shots at him...

 

[ClaraD]

Joshua J. Ziminski, 35, was charged with disorderly conduct, use of a dangerous weapon in Kenosha County Court. If convicted, Ziminski could face up to 90 days behind bars or a $1,000 fine.

Because you hear a gun shot, that does not translate into turning and shooting at whomever you see first. You don't know that your life is in danger or even where the shot came from, so you have to assess what is going on and who shot where. For all he knew it was a police officer firing his weapon or a firecracker. The kid had no business being there or even having a gun. This is not justification for shooting Rosenbaum, if anything it condemns him even more...because he shot the wrong guy

 

[apdst]

^^
Funny how the article doesn't contain "BLM" or "ANTIFA", but PoS *just knows* the parties responsible are those Trump told him to hate.

Back in reality, we understand that the greatest terror threat - identified by Trump's own government - is right wing terrorism.

Except Ziminski was hanging with Rosebaum (the dead pedophile) and he fired the "warning shot" after Rosenbaum attacked Rittenhouse.

 

[apdst]

Except he shot a guy that wasn't shooting shots at him...

He shot three dudes that were assaulting him, using deadly force.

 

[dcsports]

Except he shot a guy that wasn't shooting shots at him...

That's irrelevant. The statute doesn't say you can only claim self defense if someone is shooting at you.

 

[apdst]

The first man Rittenhouse killed was trying to disarm him, not "murder" him, and was killed himself. The other two men, one killed the other wounded by Rittenhouse, were also trying to disarm him, not "murder" him, for his having just killed a man. What you call "attacks" were to disarm, not harm. No one fired a gun at Rittenhouse. The only other gunfire than by Rittenhouse was a shot into the air. Rittenhouse illegally obtaining a firearm and in illegal possession going into what he knew was a volatile situation does not look like very good intent on his part.

So, Rosenbaum was trying to steal Rittenhouse's weapon? And then what, had he been able to take Rittenhouse's weapon? How could Rittenhouse know Rosenbaum wouldn't kill him with it? Rosenbaum was already a convicted pedophile. Should he be allowed to steal someone's weapon?

 

[Integrityrespec]

The truth is finally coming out: BLM and antifa are the real terrorists in these riots.

Corrupt media does not do news, they create a narrative that they promote to achieve their liberal/socialist/communist leanings.

The 45 Communist Goals (1963)

Albert Herong, Jr., entered The Communist Goals into the Congressional Record, as follows:

edberry.com

 

[dcsports]

Joshua J. Ziminski, 35, was charged with disorderly conduct, use of a dangerous weapon in Kenosha County Court. If convicted, Ziminski could face up to 90 days behind bars or a $1,000 fine.

Because you hear a gun shot, that does not translate into turning and shooting at whomever you see first. You don't know that your life is in danger or even where the shot came from, so you have to assess what is going on and who shot where. For all he knew it was a police officer firing his weapon or a firecracker. The kid had no business being there or even having a gun. This is not justification for shooting Rosenbaum, if anything it condemns him even more...because he shot the wrong guy

Rittenhouse didn't 'turn and shoot whomever he shot first'. He shot the man assaulting him and reaching for his weapon, as he was running from a group of people.

The gunshot is irrelevant in terms of who Rittenhouse shot. It does help frame the situation though, in terms of whether a reasonable person would fear for their life. Rittenhouse was being chased by a group of shouting people, at least one of which was armed with a weapon and fired it. (He didn't see the shot) He was then charged by a big angry man who had already shown issues with his temper earlier in the evening, and was trying to take his weapon. I can't imagine they will be able to find 12 people who would feel safe in that situation.

 

[SkyFox76]

Rittenhouse didn't 'turn and shoot whomever he shot first'. He shot the man assaulting him and reaching for his weapon, as he was running from a group of people.

The gunshot is irrelevant in terms of who Rittenhouse shot. It does help frame the situation though, in terms of whether a reasonable person would fear for their life. Rittenhouse was being chased by a group of shouting people, at least one of which was armed with a weapon and fired it. (He didn't see the shot) He was then charged by a big angry man who had already shown issues with his temper earlier in the evening, and was trying to take his weapon. I can't imagine they will be able to find 12 people who would feel safe in that situation.

Where to start....

The man who fired that weapon was in no way chasing Rittenhouse. He was walking on the sidewalk. In fact, video shows only one person was chasing him and that was Rosenbaum.

As for big angry man? Lol Rosenbaum is what, 5'4" with his shoes on? Rittenhouse is 5'8". And we have no idea if Rittenhouse was aware of what took place earlier. He doesn't look to be in any of the video with Rosenbaum going off.

But you're right, he didn't see the shot. But he did see Rosenbaum had no weapon in his hands (minus the lethal plastic bag) just moments before.

Aside from that, I hope Rittenhouse has been enjoying his nearly two months in lock up while his jokester lawyers fight extradition. Had they let him be moved his trial could be moving forward which would mean he is either released or sentenced. Instead he's likely going to celebrate Thanksgiving, Christmas and his 18th birthday in jail.

 

[apdst]

Where to start....

The man who fired that weapon was in no way chasing Rittenhouse. He was walking on the sidewalk. In fact, video shows only one person was chasing him and that was Rosenbaum.

As for big angry man? Lol Rosenbaum is what, 5'4" with his shoes on? Rittenhouse is 5'8". And we have no idea if Rittenhouse was aware of what took place earlier. He doesn't look to be in any of the video with Rosenbaum going off.

But you're right, he didn't see the shot. But he did see Rosenbaum had no weapon in his hands (minus the lethal plastic bag) just moments before.

Aside from that, I hope Rittenhouse has been enjoying his nearly two months in lock up while his jokester lawyers fight extradition. Had they let him be moved his trial could be moving forward which would mean he is either released or sentenced. Instead he's likely going to celebrate Thanksgiving, Christmas and his 18th birthday in jail.

Rosenbaum was attacking Rittenhouse and Rittenhouse defended himself. That's the long and short of it.

 

[dcsports]

Where to start....

The man who fired that weapon was in no way chasing Rittenhouse. He was walking on the sidewalk. In fact, video shows only one person was chasing him and that was Rosenbaum.

As for big angry man? Lol Rosenbaum is what, 5'4" with his shoes on? Rittenhouse is 5'8". And we have no idea if Rittenhouse was aware of what took place earlier. He doesn't look to be in any of the video with Rosenbaum going off.

But you're right, he didn't see the shot. But he did see Rosenbaum had no weapon in his hands (minus the lethal plastic bag) just moments before.

Aside from that, I hope Rittenhouse has been enjoying his nearly two months in lock up while his jokester lawyers fight extradition. Had they let him be moved his trial could be moving forward which would mean he is either released or sentenced. Instead he's likely going to celebrate Thanksgiving, Christmas and his 18th birthday in jail.

lol - You missed on every point.

 

[SkyFox76]

Rosenbaum was attacking Rittenhouse and Rittenhouse defended himself. That's the long and short of it.

So maybe his lawyers should get busy working on that part of things instead of wasting time on social media and this bs extradition stuff. Ohhh wait, they're still trying to rake in money on Rittenhouse's "behalf". He's got no bond in Illinois, and 2 million in Wisconsin. At one point they claimed to have raised 2 million, so send him to Wisconsin and pay the bail. Or just keep him locked up while they fight something they'll likely lose on eventually.

 

[SkyFox76]

lol - You missed on every point.

So you make up some dramatic big scary man, an imaginary crowd chasing him, as well as one in that crowd firing a gun and I missed? Maybe throw in some hand grenades and machine guns next round. Or better yet, stick to the facts.

 

[ASHES]

So you make up some dramatic big scary man, an imaginary crowd chasing him, as well as one in that crowd firing a gun and I missed? Maybe throw in some hand grenades and machine guns next round. Or better yet, stick to the facts.

Read the prosecutor's charging documents. Their witness says he was being chased by multiple people, not just Rosenbaum. To paraphrase, "multiple people, moving very quickly, in the direction of Kyle Rittenhouse."

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

 

[Objective Voice]

Except he shot a guy that wasn't shooting shots at him...

You're correct in that none of the people Rittenhouse shot shot at him - at all. However, as I stated he didn't know where those initial gun shots came from AND his first gunshot victim pursued him and attempted to disarm him soon after those first shots were fired. Reasonable, I think anyone in that situation would have been confused first and felt threatened second and acted to defend themself.

The skateboarder attacked him. It wasn't just a fist fight. The guy tried to hit him over the head with his board. I'm not saying I would have shot him myself, but I AM saying I can understand Rittenhouse using his weapon to fight back because he was under attack for the 2nd-time. And then you had the last guy who approached him, quickly retreated once he saw Rittenhouse point his weapon at him, but then pull a weapon on Rittenhouse and lunge at him. That's why Rittenhouse shot him.

So, in all three situations I can see why Rittenhouse acted the way he did. But I have to say again, I'm NOT defending Rittenhouse because I think he was a good faith actor. I'm defending him because in think he had a right to defend himself under the circumstances he found himself. However, I still believe he shouldn't have put himself in this situation by coming to Kenosha armed. He should have stuck to rendering First Aid.

 

[SkyFox76]

Read the prosecutor's charging documents. Their witness says he was being chased by multiple people, not just Rosenbaum. To paraphrase, "multiple people, moving very quickly, in the direction of Kyle Rittenhouse."

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

I know what McGinnis said, but where exactly do any of the videos show a chase with multiple people chasing Rittenhouse. And more specific, where is a video showing Ziminski chasing Rittenhouse?

 

[dcsports]

So you make up some dramatic big scary man, an imaginary crowd chasing him, as well as one in that crowd firing a gun and I missed? Maybe throw in some hand grenades and machine guns next round. Or better yet, stick to the facts.

lol. I stuck to the facts. Perhaps you should review the video? Or even the complaint against Rittenhouse?

 

[SkyFox76]

lol. I stuck to the facts. Perhaps you should review the video? Or even the complaint against Rittenhouse?

Feel free to show me anywhere that Joshua Ziminski is seen or even accused of chasing Rittenhouse. Tons of video so it shouldn't be hard.

Here, I'll help you.

According to a criminal complaint obtained by Fox News, Kenosha detectives investigating the fatal shootings reviewed video footage of the night's events and observed Ziminski holding a black handgun. In one video, he is seen walking with his wife near the Ultimate Gas Station before he is captured firing a shot into the air, authorities said.

“Detective Howard observed a muzzle flash emit from the handgun, and heard a gunshot at the same time," the complaint states. "In another video, the defendant is clearly seen at that same location. The defendant is seen walking in the same area, holding his right arm upwards, and firing off one shot from his handgun."

Or maybe you'd like to use the video made by the attorney. The one that states a shot was fired from across the street and not one word that the guy was actually chasing Rittenhouse.

 

[ASHES]

Nobody is claiming Ziminski chased Rittenhouse. He did fire his gun in the air close behind where he must have known Rosenbaum was chasing Rittenhouse. Why would he do that do you think? To help disarm Rittenhouse along with everyone else? Also, crickets regarding the 3 shots that come after KR's first 4, which looks like a 3rd gunman firing at KR in the drone footage.

 

[SkyFox76]

Nobody is claiming Ziminski chased Rittenhouse. He did fire his gun in the air close behind where he must have known Rosenbaum was chasing Rittenhouse. Why would he do that do you think? To help disarm Rittenhouse along with everyone else? Also, crickets regarding the 3 shots that come after KR's first 4, which looks like a 3rd gunman firing at KR in the drone footage.

Incorrect. Post #63.

The gunshot is irrelevant in terms of who Rittenhouse shot. It does help frame the situation though, in terms of whether a reasonable person would fear for their life. Rittenhouse was being chased by a group of shouting people, at least one of which was armed with a weapon and fired it.

And why would he do it? Maybe he was firing it to get Rosenbaum to back off Rittenhouse. Where is this mob? Drone footage, Rittenhouse in red circle, Rosenbaum somewhat visible just to the right. And it's odd the person using the video claims the person is walking backwards shooting at Rittenhouse, but yet when they turn around, another shot is heard and what sounds like plate glass breaking.