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Live Updates: At Least 10 Cities in Ukraine Come Under Sustained Attack

bave said:
Again, even that *political* definition states that it is the purpose is designed to bring about the *destruction* of a group of people. Destruction being a synonym for death. Point being, that genocide requires the liquidation of a group of people by one means or another. Russia killing 6,000-ish civilians over 8 months in a country of ~40MM is not even remotely in the realm of genocide.

This is why this topic is so hard to have an adult conversation on. People are making hyperbolic and ridiculous statements while ignoring any and all historical context and precedent.

I would also point out that the US actually declined to participate in that same definition of genocide, lol.
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'Destruction' does not necessarily mean that. Israel has pledged from the beginning that she is to be an Arab-free state. Gradual incursion into and erosion of Palestinian territory, expelling hundreds of thousands of Arabs from their land and replacing them with Jews by building 'settlements'. That's also genocide.
 
snakestretcher said:
'Destruction' does not necessarily mean that. Israel has pledged from the beginning that she is to be an Arab-free state. Gradual incursion into and erosion of Palestinian territory, expelling hundreds of thousands of Arabs from their land and replacing them with Jews by building 'settlements'. That's also genocide.
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Hold on, you are suggesting that expelling a group of people from a territory is the same as genocide? You do understanding what the suffix *CIDE* means, right? Let me help you with that, it means "the act of killing".

Not the act of relocating.
Not the act of moving.
Not the act of being mean to.

The act of killing.

So if you are going to try to continue to push the genocide narrative you are going to need to show proof of systematic wholesale slaughter on an enormous scale of Ukrainians. I'll wait.
 
AliHajiSheik said:
Different countries have different responses to being invaded. I was explaining the psyche behind the post.
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Most invaded nations have historically dealt with the invader in order to minimise deaths, property destruction etc. There have been governments sympathetic to the invader (Vichy France, for example), while governments in exile continue to resist as best they can.Th
VySky said:
Proxy war and we do have troops on the ground. Try and keep u
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bave said:
Hold on, you are suggesting that expelling a group of people from a territory is the same as genocide? You do understanding what the suffix *CIDE* means, right? Let me help you with that, it means "the act of killing".

Not the act of relocating.
Not the act of moving.
Not the act of being mean to.

The act of killing.

So if you are going to try to continue to push the genocide narrative you are going to need to show proof of systematic wholesale slaughter on an enormous scale of Ukrainians. I'll wait.
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Don't be silly. I presented one of several definitions of genocide. I'm sorry you don't like it.
ccrjustice.org

The Genocide of the Palestinian People: An International Law and Human Rights Perspective

While there has been recent criticism of those taking the position that Israel is committing genocide against Palestinians, there is a long history of human rights scholarship and legal analysis that
ccrjustice.org ccrjustice.org
 
snakestretcher said:
Don't be silly. I presented one of several definitions of genocide. I'm sorry you don't like it.
ccrjustice.org

The Genocide of the Palestinian People: An International Law and Human Rights Perspective

While there has been recent criticism of those taking the position that Israel is committing genocide against Palestinians, there is a long history of human rights scholarship and legal analysis that
ccrjustice.org ccrjustice.org
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No, you have posted several *opinions* on genocide. There is only one actual definition of the word.

That's why these threads are so comical. You can't even agree on the basic language and you have to constantly redefine words and terms in order to try and prop up your position.

The purpose of a genocide is to exterminate a population. Full stop, period.
 
VySky said:
That’s a load of crap. Ukraine us not our Cuba. I don’t like that Biden is risking end of the world over that crap hole country. It’s not our fight.
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Let him roll over Ukraine, then it's Kazakhstan (as Medvedev has already implied), then it's the Baltics, then it's Alaska.
 
Grizzly Adams said:
Let him roll over Ukraine, then it's Kazakhstan (as Medvedev has already implied), then it's the Baltics, then it's Alaska.
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Attack Alaska? Are you serious? Do you think Putin has ever even entertained the idea of attacking Alaska?
 
When you can't win on the battlefield going after soft civilian target's is the surest sign of despetation.

It will only strengthen the Ukrainians resolve to repel the enemy from every square inch of Ukranian territory.

The West determination to see this thru with there Ukrainian allies is unshakeable.
 
There are teenage boys and girls that simply want to wake up and go to High School. And all Putin is doing is trying to slaughter them and their parents.

Now, those of you who are supporting Russia and Putin, what would you do if the bombs were dropping on you and your teenagers?
 
PeteEU said:
The Russians have been ready for peace talks... Ukraine is refusing
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I'm going to talk to the US government and see if they'll start bombing your country and taking your homes and slaughtering a bunch of your people and kids. Are you okay with that?
 
Grizzly Adams said:
Given his reasoning for invading Ukraine, I see no reason to think he hasn't, or won't.
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Then you clearly don't understand his reasoning for attacking Ukraine.

Jesus.
 
bave said:
Then you clearly don't understand his reasoning for attacking Ukraine.

Jesus.
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Enlighten us all. What's his reasoning for attacking Ukraine? The reasoning that you are so supportive of apparently. Please share.
 
poweRob said:
Enlighten us all. What's his reasoning for attacking Ukraine? The reasoning that you are so supportive of apparently. Please share.
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Grizzly Adams said:
So it's not because he considers Ukraine to be historically Russian? Like he's explicitly stated numerous times?
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The shortest possible summation would be that Russia doesn't want a western aligned Ukraine on their border. They consider the West moving Ukraine out of their sphere of influence and into that of the West a strategic threat that they cannot tolerate.
 
bave said:
The shortest possible summation would be that Russia doesn't want a western aligned Ukraine on their border. They consider the West moving Ukraine out of their sphere of influence and into that of the West a strategic threat that they cannot tolerate.
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It's not the west they don't want. They don't want democracy on their border. They ran off putin's plant a few years back and that dude ran out of the country to Moscow. A big Democracy like that on their border could be contagious to the people's.
 
poweRob said:
It's not the west they don't want. They don't want democracy on their border. They ran off putin's plant a few years back and that dude ran out of the country to Moscow. A big Democracy like that on their border could be contagious to the people's.
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It is a rather univeraslly accepted truth that the Ukrainian election in 2010 was free and fair by UN standards. The Maidan revolution on the overhand illegally and unconstitionally installed a new government (even according to the new Ukr PM) and that new illegal government promptly rigged the upcoming elections. In effect, Ukraine got less democratic, not more democratic over the last 12 years. So your point just isn't really all that accurate.

Moreover, we are talking about international policy and statecraft. Regional and global powers don't really care about democracy to be honest. They care about whether or not you are going to be "on their team" more than anything else. Case in point, just look at how many democracies the United States has eviscerated because they didn't tow the line.

Ultimately it is far less about the will of the people and far more about whose team you are on in the end, that's really all there is to it.
 
PeteEU said:
Then sit down and talk peace....and yet Ukraine refuses.
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Hi PeteEU,

Of course they refuse to sit down with Putin. Never negotiate with terrorists or people in the same category as Hitler, Xi, and Putin!


Joey
 
PeteEU said:
Then sit down and talk peace....and yet Ukraine refuses.
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Yet another "European" who weirdly blames Ukraine for the invasion, lol.
 
PeteEU said:
The Russians have been ready for peace talks... Ukraine is refusing
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Peace happens when Russian soldiers stop attacking Ukraine, you're lying on behalf of Russia. Pete"EU"
 
bave said:
The shortest possible summation would be that Russia doesn't want a western aligned Ukraine on their border.
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A: **** 'im, that's not his choice to make.

B: You seem to be ignoring (or ignorant of) Putin's many statements regarding the illegitimacy of Ukraine's existence as a fundamental matter, unrelated to which foreign entities they befriend. This is not limited to Ukraine, either. In August Putin's puppet Medvedev made comments regarding the illegitimacy of Kazakhstan's existence as well. Why should one not consider the possibility that he'll eventually come calling for Alaska?
 
This war has to stop and both sides have to be willing to compromise.

Now the Russians are willing since their idiotic invasion has failed, but Ukraine is unwilling despite them being willing a couple of months ago.

Does Zelenski want end the bloodshed or not? Right now it seems he wants to get more Ukrainians killed.

Siting down to talk peace does not mean the fighting stops, but it is a start.
 
PeteEU said:
This war has to stop and both sides have to be willing to compromise.
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"Compromise" in this situation necessarily means Russia gains and Ukraine loses.

That's not a compromise, that's appeasement.

History suggests it doesn't work for long.
 
Grizzly Adams said:
"Compromise" in this situation necessarily means Russia gains and Ukraine loses.

That's not a compromise, that's appeasement.

History suggests it doesn't work for long.
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Then this war will go on for years, if not decades more. It will also not solve the problems that started the war in the first place.
 
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