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It does help prevent weapons from getting in the hands of Hamas. Does all flight security prevent every bomb, weapon, and knife from getting aboard an airplane? No. So should we stop airline security? No.People who support the blockade say that it brings security to Israel.
But what security?
Does the blockade prevent the Hamas from getting weapons? No
Does the blockade weaken the Hamas? No, actually it is the contrary: because of the siege, the economy of Gaza is ruined, its people live in misery and many of them suffer from the lack of food and lack of medicines, which radicalizes them. Furthermore, since the Hamas controls the tunnels, it controls anything that enters Gaza.
Did the blockade allow the liberation of Shalit? No
What are the other consequences of the blockade? An humanitarian crisis that is denied only in Israel, that shocks the entire world and slowly isolates Israel, which lost its single ally in the ME 3 days ago.
People who support the blockade say that it brings security to Israel.
But what security?
Does the blockade prevent the Hamas from getting weapons? No
Does the blockade weaken the Hamas? No, actually it is the contrary: because of the siege, the economy of Gaza is ruined, its people live in misery and many of them suffer from the lack of food and lack of medicines, which radicalizes them. Furthermore, since the Hamas controls the tunnels, it controls anything that enters Gaza.
Did the blockade allow the liberation of Shalit? No
What are the other consequences of the blockade? An humanitarian crisis that is denied only in Israel, that shocks the entire world and slowly isolates Israel, which lost its single ally in the ME 3 days ago.
MICHAEL OREN: I think Hamas is appreciably less popular among the population of Gaza today than it was three years ago.
People of Gaza look across at what's happening in the West Bank, where there's an annual growth rate of between 11 and 8 percent, a very, very high growth rate, where there are tens of thousands of new jobs, where there are talks going on between the Israeli government and the Palestinian Authority, where the Israeli government and the Israeli army has withdrawn from major Palestinian cities and Palestinian security forces have deployed, they look at everything that's happening on the West Bank. None of that is happening in Gaza.
And they conclude the only reason that's not happening is because of the regime that is ruling Gaza. And the minute that regime either disappears or ceases its war to destroy the state of Israel -- and that is its expressed intention -- it's actually in the covenant of Hamas -- then there's no need for a blockade. There's no reason for any restrictions whatsoever. There will be an open border.
Under thing to note is that the blockade only angers the Gazan youth more. Keep in mind that the majority of the population is below 20 years old. They will turn to Hamas because Hamas can offer something no one else can. A job that pays. Whether they become a Hamas policeman or a Hamas militant of the al-Qassam Brigades will likely depend on how badly they are suffering under the siege of Gaza.Does the blockade weaken the Hamas? No, actually it is the contrary: because of the siege, the economy of Gaza is ruined, its people live in misery and many of them suffer from the lack of food and lack of medicines, which radicalizes them. Furthermore, since the Hamas controls the tunnels, it controls anything that enters Gaza.
What partner of peace forcefully boards an aid vessel instead of using the incoming aid to show it really is commited to peace? Israel's actions have always spoken louder than their words.
Over the past several days, Israel has been engaged in intense diplomacy to try to convince the participants in the flotilla to transfer the humanitarian aid in their cargo holds to Israel.
Wrong, the blockade prevents and has prevented tens of thousands tons of weapons from being transferred to the Hamas.People who support the blockade say that it brings security to Israel.
But what security?
Does the blockade prevent the Hamas from getting weapons? No
The objective of the blockade is to protect the civilians of the Israeli state.Does the blockade weaken the Hamas? No, actually it is the contrary: because of the siege, the economy of Gaza is ruined, its people live in misery and many of them suffer from the lack of food and lack of medicines, which radicalizes them. Furthermore, since the Hamas controls the tunnels, it controls anything that enters Gaza.
Unfortunately Hamas prefers to have a blockade against Gaza rather than let the Israeli soldier go, but that's Hamas' fault.Did the blockade allow the liberation of Shalit? No
Turkey has stopped being Israel's ally because of the Gaza War, not merely the blockade.What are the other consequences of the blockade? An humanitarian crisis that is denied only in Israel, that shocks the entire world and slowly isolates Israel, which lost its single ally in the ME 3 days ago.
Under thing to note is that the blockade only angers the Gazan youth more. Keep in mind that the majority of the population is below 20 years old. They will turn to Hamas because Hamas can offer something no one else can. A job that pays. Whether they become a Hamas policeman or a Hamas militant of the al-Qassam Brigades will likely depend on how badly they are suffering under the siege of Gaza.
An Israeli citizen perspective:
It was well before my time, but history tells us that President John F. Kennedy ordered a naval blockade of Cuba when it was discovered that Russian missiles capable of targeting US cities were being delivered and activated on Cuban soil. Mind you, not one of these missiles had ever been fired at the United States. Nevertheless, Kennedy considered this act as a direct threat to US national security and ordered the blockade. Every ship approaching Cuba would be intercepted by the US Navy, boarded, and the cargo inspected. Kennedy considered this principle so critical that he risked a nuclear confrontation with the USSR. Khrushchev eventually backed down and all missiles from Cuba were removed. To this day, the US government still imposes an economic boycott on Cuba.
Israel blockaded Gaza in most part due to infiltration suicide-attacks and rocket barrages constantly fired into nearby Israeli towns and villages. No US president would put up with such mayhem inflicted on American citizens, and no Israeli PM would put up with it either. The Egyptian government has also blockaded its portion of the border with Gaza and restricts the ingress/egress of people and materials.
Some have suggested that the blockade is a security failure. This a patently false. Suicide-bombings in Israel are now virtually nil and have been for many years. Rocket and missile parts have been smuggled in through tunnels, but this activity would have increased a thousand fold without the blockad
The most vocal objection to the blockade resides on foundational pillars of humanitarian-concern and collective-punishment. To some extent, I can agree with these concerns. The problem is, no one has offered a viable/workable alternative. One only has to look at Lebanon and the re-armament of Hizb'Allah to appreciate that the United Nations is totally inept at preventing or even curtailing the delivery of missiles. Hizb'Allah even boasts publicly that its missile inventory has trebled since the UN brokered cease-fire agreement of 2006. The UN sits there and does little to nothing. But when the **** hits the fan, you can bet the farm that they will blame Israel and then scurry away like frightened rodents.
Israel has stated many times that the blockade would be virtually removed if Hamas ceases rocket/infiltration attacks on Israel and the captured Israeli soldier (in captivity since 2006) is released. Hamas says it cannot guarantee the former. Israel has released hundreds of prisoners already to secure the release of Gilad Shalit, but it is never enough. There are always additional insatiable demands.
So I ask. If not a blockade, then what? What mechanism? I want a real/viable proposal that satisfies both major concerns; (a) satisfying Israeli security concerns and (b) increasing the flow of legitimate staples and non-corruptible materials into Gaza. Don't even bother with UN/EU monitors. Neither is particularly competent nor trustworthy.
Kennedy did in fact remove the missiles from Turkey....and Khruschev wanted to install missiles in Cuba because the USA had just installed similar missiles in Turkey, so it was only a symetrical move, yet there was no "Turkish missiles crisis". But the real interresting thing is that Kennedy did not dare to call it a "blockade" because he knew it was an act of war, he called it a "quarantine".
From mid-December to mid-January of 2009, dozens of missiles were hitting Israel every day. That is more missiles per day than Germany even fired at Britain during WWII. No country in the world would put up with that sort of barrage.Yet the "few smuggled rockets" were enough to provoke a huge retaliation raid that killed hundreds of civilians. So basically, there is security when people try to justify the blockade, and suddenly there is no security anymore when the same people want to justify retaliation raids.
Israel could easily clear the Gaza Strip and deport everyone to Kathmandu. That is not the objective. We simply want to be left alone. It's as simple as that.It's still the only solution. You can not have peace as long as nothing changes in Gaza, and you can not win against the Hamas with a blockade. That's as simple as that.
As long as Hamas and Hezbollah refuse to sit down and negotiate, that failure is on them.In the end Israel will have to negociate with everyone (and I do not blame Israel only for the failure of the negociations) including the Hamas and the Hezbollah.
I agree with you here. I think the list of allowed items is too restrictive. But you have to be aware that many items - fertilizer for example - are dual use items. These can easily be morphed from civilian commodities to weapons or weapon components.And in the short term, I think people would still accept an Israeli control over the borders of Gaza if they merely check (like in an airport) and let everything enter (not the weapons, but all the food, including luxury goods like macaronis, coffee or chocolate). This way it would not be a collective punishment anymore and I think most people would be satisfied.
Kennedy did in fact remove the missiles from Turkey.
Would it make any difference at all if Israel and Egypt called it a quarantine?
Same difference. Israel and Egypt are either being more honest or less astute than Kennedy.
From mid-December to mid-January of 2009, dozens of missiles were hitting Israel every day. That is more missiles per day than Germany even fired at Britain during WWII. No country in the world would put up with that sort of barrage.
Israel could easily clear the Gaza Strip and deport everyone to Kathmandu. That is not the objective. We simply want to be left alone. It's as simple as that.
As long as Hamas and Hezbollah refuse to sit down and negotiate, that failure is on them.
I agree with you here. I think the list of allowed items is too restrictive. But you have to be aware that many items - fertilizer for example - are dual use items. These can easily be morphed from civilian commodities to weapons or weapon components.
So did the Russians.Yes, as a part of the agreement to remove the missiles from Cuba, several months later (and anyways they didn't need those missiles anymore, they had submarines)
There is no quantitative difference. If there is, explain it to us.It just shows that even in the eyes of the Americans, blockades are an act of war.
I know of no counter-terrorism mechanism that is 100% efficient and foolproof. Do you?So the blockade is inefficient
I don't really care what Hamas does in Gaza as long as it remains in Gaza. Probably how most folks feel about the Taliban and Afghanistan also. In short, keep the circus in your own tent.You have to bear in mind that deporting Palestinians is not a possibility anymore. They'll be your neighbors, so you have to make peace with them, and you can not have peace as long as nothing changes in Gaza, and you can not win against the Hamas with a blockade. That's as simple as that.
Undoubtedly. The flotilla boarding (what you call a raid) is a good example.It's a bit too easy to blame everything on one side.
Let's take a simple everyday item... construction nails. While I agree that such an item is necessary for reconstruction, I also know that Hamas loads nails into the nosecone of its Qassam missiles.Then let everything enter except the items that may have a dual purpose. Aren't there substitutes for these items?
This is not a collective punishment of Gazans, it is an action taken against Hamas.While one can easily understand and sympathize with Israeli security concerns it is also clear that the current policy is not working. The blockade is not only providing militant groups with a ready supply of angry young men who have no other prospects than joining the Hamas - it is also constitution a collective punishment. Being a Jewish state Israel should have learnt from 2000 years of Jews being collectively punished for having killed Jesus that this kind of punishment is an insult to justice.
This is not a collective punishment of Gazans, it is an action taken against Hamas.
Evidence being that Israel and Egypt have only enforced the blockade on Gaza once Hamas came to power, not a moment before it.
There is no quantitative difference. If there is, explain it to us.
I know of no counter-terrorism mechanism that is 100% efficient and foolproof. Do you?
I don't really care what Hamas does in Gaza as long as it remains in Gaza. Probably how most folks feel about the Taliban and Afghanistan also. In short, keep the circus in your own tent.
Let's take a simple everyday item... construction nails. While I agree that such an item is necessary for reconstruction, I also know that Hamas loads nails into the nosecone of its Qassam missiles.
So then bub. A simple everyday item is weaponized. What is one to do?
Unquestionably however, the Hamas document is a response to the Likud Party Platform of 1977 that reflected similar thoughts of many Israelis, particularly West Bank settlers, when it rejected any two-state solution to the Palestinian-Israeli crisis:
"The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and
is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore Judea and Samaria will
not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan
there will only be Israeli sovereignty." D4
Exactly how is banning import of ginger and chocolate into the Gaza strip stopping Hamas from attacking Israeli territory? The blockade goes far beyond the legitimate military needs of Israel.
The desperate situation in the Gaza strip is an outright humanitarian disaster, engineered by Israel to punish the people for having voted for the only alternative to the corrupt and inefficient Fatah. You can call the blockade whatever you want - its easily foreseeable results still are that the economy of Gaza is completely destroyed, that virtually no rebuilding can take place and that ordinary Palestinians suffer.
Exactly how is banning import of ginger and chocolate into the Gaza strip stopping Hamas from attacking Israeli territory? The blockade goes far beyond the legitimate military needs of Israel.
So I ask. If not a blockade, then what? What mechanism? I want a real/viable proposal that satisfies both major concerns; (a) satisfying Israeli security concerns and (b) increasing the flow of legitimate staples and non-corruptible materials into Gaza. Don't even bother with UN/EU monitors. Neither is particularly competent nor trustworthy.
Exactly. And no one on this thread has been able to conceive/suggest a better alternative.That's the key issue. From past precedent, neither UN/EU monitors nor an arrangement along the lines of UNIFIL (Lebanon) would be adequate.
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