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Life begins at conception...

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Moderator's Warning:
ENOUGH with all the sarcastic one-liners! Discuss the topic reasonably and substantively, or go do something else.
 
Thunder said:
unfortunately, these are your most intelligent statements in the thread.

:(
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Dude, you've failed to make an intelligent point yet...so why should I bother?
 
Aunt Spiker said:
I think 'when it joins' is senseless - just because it joins doesn't mean it'll grow. Implantation and other things MUST happen first.
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It's not senseless. It's the first step. The ZEF will face challenges for the next 90+ years.....that doesn't make any of the steps previous to any other less consequential, or defining of it's existence.
 
Thunder said:
no, I have made many intelligent points. I take this issue very seriously.
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Then you should do some research on it. To date you have issued challenges regarding fetal neglect and have been proven false, not to mention being entirely ignorant of fetal homicide law. Your concept and knowledge of the law and ethics is lacking, to say the least. You obviously know very little about the issue beyond the talking points.
 
Thunder said:
I do know one thing: I support the right of women to decide what happens to their bodies.
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Good for you. You don't actually have to know anything to know that. That makes it easy. Now, I'm taking that to mean you really don't give a crap about what happens to the other body, right?
 
mac said:
Now, I'm taking that to mean you really don't give a crap about what happens to the other body, right?
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I value the needs of the fully-formed, independent, viable human a lot more than the partially-formed, non-viable, dependent proto-human growing in her body.
 
mac said:
It's not senseless. It's the first step. The ZEF will face challenges for the next 90+ years.....that doesn't make any of the steps previous to any other less consequential, or defining of it's existence.
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I think it's a menial point - regardless of when lif ebegins according to law or science . . . it's still a potential life for me to carry, birth and raise.
 
Thunder said:
I value the needs of the fully-formed, independent, viable human a lot more than the partially-formed, non-viable, dependent proto-human growing in her body.
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Can you cite a definition of proto-human with links to some credible organization?
 
Moderator's Warning:
Mac, Thread ban at this time.


I'm not kidding, no more barbed one-liners. Discuss the issue substantively or don't discuss it at all.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
I think it's a menial point - regardless of when lif ebegins according to law or science . . . it's still a potential life for me to carry, birth and raise.
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So you are basing your definition of life on it's impact on you personally? If it impacts you, it is inconsequential and should be able to be terminated as you see fit?
 
mac said:
So you are basing your definition of life on it's impact on you personally? If it impacts you, it is inconsequential and should be able to be terminated as you see fit?
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I'm basing my view on abortion on how it impacts me personally.

I base my definition of 'when it's a developing new life' based on the actual measures necessary for a group of cell to go from just being cells that are live to being a fully developing lifeform - which is a bit more than just sperm meet ovum. There must be implantation, natural bodily responses, changes in body chemistry - and on and on. There is no one single defining moment for everyone in kind - everyone's differen.t but all these different things must be present and in action for it to be 'a new life' to me.
 
1Perry said:
WOW, that's just about all I'm left with. I can't believe I'm even bothering if you refuse to read the article. If you had, it wouldn't have been hard to find the part starting at the 5th paragraph that states:

The Medical Establishment
The strongest force behind the drive to criminalize abortion was the attempt by doctors to establish for themselves exclusive rights to practice medicine. They wanted to prevent "untrained" practitioners, including midwives, apothecaries, and homeopaths, from competing with them for patients and for patient fees.

The best way to accomplish their goal was to eliminate one of the principle procedures that kept these competitors in business. Rather than openly admitting to such motivations, the newly formed American Medical Association (AMA) argued that abortion was both immoral and dangerous. By 1910 all but one state had criminalized abortion except where necessary, in a doctor's judgment, to save the woman's life. In this way, legal abortion was successfully transformed into a "physicians-only" practice.
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so all but one state criminalized it great!!! did you read farther down where they say in 1973 r.v.w. made abortion legal again in ALL states so there would be less (FAR less) back alley abortions?
 
mac said:
I'm well aware that its humanity is of no consequence to you or other pro-choicer. At least you're honest about that, precious few are. This attitude is why genocide and slavery are often compared to your view.
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nice twisting mac maybe you should change your name to fats domino.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
I think it's a menial point - regardless of when lif ebegins according to law or science . . . it's still a potential life for me to carry, birth and raise.
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right but it is far from menial to the law which is the foundation of this country.
 
majora$$hole said:
so all but one state criminalized it great!!! did you read farther down where they say in 1973 r.v.w. made abortion legal again in ALL states so there would be less (FAR less) back alley abortions?
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Yeah, I read it. It's wrong info but I read it. I posted the actual facts earlier in this thread. The overwhelming vast majority of abortions pre RvW, illegal and legal were performed by doctors.

But thanks for noting you were wrong about the illegality of abortions performed to save the life of the mother.
 
mac said:
neener-neener
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:bravo: Brilliant rendition of your position.

Aunt Spiker said:
I think 'when it joins' is senseless - just because it joins doesn't mean it'll grow. Implantation and other things MUST happen first.
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I've already posted a link proving that fact. No one responded. Figures.

Considering that a woman is not even pregnant until after implantation, the entire retarded argument of instant personhood at the moment of conception is obviously wrong.
 
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