Liberals Strom California's Bedrooms[W:57]

[LowDown]

So much for the ridiculous myth that liberals are socially libertarian; that liberals are “live and let live” types simply defending themselves against judgmental conservatives, the real aggressors in the culture war.

It always has been a silly concete. It runs counter to everything liberals take pride in. They can't be "agents for change" and not be aggressive in pushing their moral agenda. Many conservatives want to do likewise, of course, but when they do liberals screech and scream about theocracy and decry the Orwellian horror and moan and groan about conservatives forcing their values on everyone.

It will be a bit harder for liberals to keep a straight face when making that argument now that Jerry Brown signed a law that micro-manages sexual encounters in a way that turns most normal sex into rape. There must be an affirmative declaration of consent at each stage of the encounter according to the law, which applies to sex on campus. Of course, no one has sex like that.

Talk about using the blunt instrument of the state to intrude into people's sex lives and bedrooms. And based, at that, on a particular peculiar and extreme view of the morality of sex.

The upshot is that according to the liberals who supported this law the state is justified in regulating sex because some feminist writers are convinced some people are doing it wrong. One doesn’t have to take a position on that claim to wonder whether it’s the government’s place to tell people how to do it right.

Liberals Storm California's Bedrooms | RealClearPolitics

 

[rocket88]

So much for the ridiculous myth that liberals are socially libertarian; that liberals are “live and let live” types simply defending themselves against judgmental conservatives, the real aggressors in the culture war.

It always has been a silly concete. It runs counter to everything liberals take pride in. They can't be "agents for change" and not be aggressive in pushing their moral agenda. Many conservatives want to do likewise, of course, but when they do liberals screech and scream about theocracy and decry the Orwellian horror and moan and groan about conservatives forcing their values on everyone.

It will be a bit harder for liberals to keep a straight face when making that argument now that Jerry Brown signed a law that micro-manages sexual encounters in a way that turns most normal sex into rape. There must be an affirmative declaration of consent at each stage of the encounter according to the law, which applies to sex on campus. Of course, no one has sex like that.

Talk about using the blunt instrument of the state to intrude into people's sex lives and bedrooms. And based, at that, on a particular peculiar and extreme view of the morality of sex.

The upshot is that according to the liberals who supported this law the state is justified in regulating sex because some feminist writers are convinced some people are doing it wrong. One doesn’t have to take a position on that claim to wonder whether it’s the government’s place to tell people how to do it right.

Liberals Storm California's Bedrooms | RealClearPolitics

So Republicans are pro-rape now? Better get that in your ads, saying that is sure to win the election.

 

[iliveonramen]

So much for the ridiculous myth that liberals are socially libertarian; that liberals are “live and let live” types simply defending themselves against judgmental conservatives, the real aggressors in the culture war.

It always has been a silly concete. It runs counter to everything liberals take pride in. They can't be "agents for change" and not be aggressive in pushing their moral agenda. Many conservatives want to do likewise, of course, but when they do liberals screech and scream about theocracy and decry the Orwellian horror and moan and groan about conservatives forcing their values on everyone.

It will be a bit harder for liberals to keep a straight face when making that argument now that Jerry Brown signed a law that micro-manages sexual encounters in a way that turns most normal sex into rape. There must be an affirmative declaration of consent at each stage of the encounter according to the law, which applies to sex on campus. Of course, no one has sex like that.

Talk about using the blunt instrument of the state to intrude into people's sex lives and bedrooms. And based, at that, on a particular peculiar and extreme view of the morality of sex.

The upshot is that according to the liberals who supported this law the state is justified in regulating sex because some feminist writers are convinced some people are doing it wrong. One doesn’t have to take a position on that claim to wonder whether it’s the government’s place to tell people how to do it right.

Liberals Storm California's Bedrooms | RealClearPolitics

Consent occurs before the bedroom....if it doesn't for you you're doing it wrong

 

[Diving Mullah]

So Republicans are pro-rape now? Better get that in your ads, saying that is sure to win the election.

Pro Rape! That is pretty funny!

Actually Conservative and republicans have been pro rape for a while now, just not so vocal about it.

Diving Mullah

 

[Redress]

First, let's get every one on the same page. Here is the law in question(as opposed to some one explaining what they think the law says): https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201320140SB967

Here is the relevant portion:

(1) An affirmative consent standard in the determination of whether consent was given by both parties to sexual activity. “Affirmative consent” means affirmative, conscious, and voluntary agreement to engage in sexual activity. It is the responsibility of each person involved in the sexual activity to ensure that he or she has the affirmative consent of the other or others to engage in the sexual activity. Lack of protest or resistance does not mean consent, nor does silence mean consent. Affirmative consent must be ongoing throughout a sexual activity and can be revoked at any time. The existence of a dating relationship between the persons involved, or the fact of past sexual relations between them, should never by itself be assumed to be an indicator of consent.

It goes on, but that is the heart of it. Note that this has no effect on state laws regarding rape, but only effect school disciplinary action and the standards for those. I am having a hard time seeing a problems with schools requiring that people agree to do something sexual before having it done to them. Liberals have not supported the idea that sexual assualt is ok simply because it happened in the bedroom(nor have libertarians for that matter). This policy simply defines what can be consiuderd sexual assualt for purposes of school disciplinary policy.

So basically once again this thread is a good example of what happens when people get their information for opinion pieces instead of from actual facts.

 

[Redress]

So Republicans are pro-rape now? Better get that in your ads, saying that is sure to win the election.

it is not republicans or libertarians in this case. Some have no idiology beyond "libruls bad"(or "conservatives bad" to be fair). I tend to call them antis. They don't really stand for anything, they just oppose anything the people they don't like do.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Here's a link to the actual law about "liberals storming California's bedrooms:"

The proposal requires all colleges taking student financial aid funding from the state to agree that in investigations of campus sexual assaults, silence or lack of resistance does not imply a green light for sex, and that drunkenness is not an acceptable defense, the San Jose Mercury-News reported earlier in August.

Obviously, if you don't support the freedom to get a girl so drunk she can't resist, then (bleep!) her, then you're a liberal storming people's bedrooms.

 

[US Conservative]

So Republicans are pro-rape now? Better get that in your ads, saying that is sure to win the election.

Theres that authoritarian appeal we so love. Well done.

 

[Redress]

Here's a link to the actual law about "liberals storming California's bedrooms:"



Obviously, if you don't support the freedom to get a girl so drunk she can't resist, then (bleep!) her, then you're a liberal storming people's bedrooms.

As I read the text of the law, it goes slightly beyond that. For example, I believe that if you are engaged in "traditional" vaginal sex and wanted to try anal, you gots to ask first. However, the OP is wrong in stating "There must be an affirmative declaration of consent at each stage of the encounter according to the law", which is actually the standard that was used(to much controversy) by a school in I think Ohio back in the late 90s. The problem with the OP is that it dishonestly frames what the law actually is. People need to learn that getting information from editorials without fact checking means they will be, frequently, deceived. What is sad is that no matter how many times this is shown to them, they will still repeat the same failed method of getting information. It is best to do as you do and verify everything. I think it is most important to do so when you hear something you want to be true. It is so easy to let yourself be deceived.

 

[Redress]

Theres that authoritarian appeal we so love. Well done.

That is not an authoritarian appeal. It is simply mocking. Please learn what words mean before using them.

 

[Reformedfindlay]

good example of what happens when people get their information for opinion pieces instead of from actual facts.

The best method of proving your side is to try and disprove it. When we try to look for information or experiment set-ups that agree with us we end up becoming extremely biased because we skip over pieces that disagree with us.

-My physics teacher who is a scientist, 2014

 

[LagerHead]

I find it quite troubling that in an environment that is supposed to be inhabited by adults, we treat them as if we expect less of them than we expect of kindergartners. Why does behavior on a college campus need to be codified? Can we not just tell college students, you are now of adult age. You will act of adult age or you will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law just like any other adult? No, that would make too much sense. College is a magical environment that removes all responsibility and judgment. Give me a break.

 

[Dittohead not!]

As I read the text of the law, it goes slightly beyond that. For example, I believe that if you are engaged in "traditional" vaginal sex and wanted to try anal, you gots to ask first. However, the OP is wrong in stating "There must be an affirmative declaration of consent at each stage of the encounter according to the law", which is actually the standard that was used(to much controversy) by a school in I think Ohio back in the late 90s. The problem with the OP is that it dishonestly frames what the law actually is. People need to learn that getting information from editorials without fact checking means they will be, frequently, deceived. What is sad is that no matter how many times this is shown to them, they will still repeat the same failed method of getting information. It is best to do as you do and verify everything. I think it is most important to do so when you hear something you want to be true. It is so easy to let yourself be deceived.

Exactly. I believe the term is "confirmation of bias."

 

[Jack Hays]

Liberals Invading the Bedroom

Liberals in California are monitoring bedroom behavior, alert for deviations from their prescribed behaviors.

Liberals Storm California's Bedrooms - Jonah Goldberg, Los Angeles Times

". . . The incredible overreach of the law has been discussed at great length. Even the Los Angeles Times editorial board expressed misgivings in an editorial before Brown signed the bill into law. “It seems extremely difficult and extraordinarily intrusive to micromanage sex so closely as to tell young people what steps they must take in the privacy of their own dorm rooms.”. . .

​

 

[Reformedfindlay]

Re: Liberals Invading the Bedroom

You duplicated a thread topic already posted by one of our members, a debunked trash thread topic at that.

 

[Jack Hays]

Re: Liberals Invading the Bedroom

You duplicated a thread topic already posted by one of our members, a debunked trash thread topic at that.

Really? Where is it?

 

[Reformedfindlay]

Re: Liberals Invading the Bedroom

Really? Where is it?

http://www.debatepolitics.com/gener...6430-liberals-strom-californias-bedrooms.html

The stupidity of the thread OP may lower your IQ a tad but I won't stop you from visiting it.

 

[Jack Hays]

Re: Liberals Invading the Bedroom

http://www.debatepolitics.com/gener...6430-liberals-strom-californias-bedrooms.html

The stupidity of the thread OP may lower your IQ a tad but I won't stop you from visiting it.

Any time Jonah Goldberg and the LA Times are on the same side something interesting is happening.

 

[X Factor]

Re: Liberals Invading the Bedroom

http://www.debatepolitics.com/gener...6430-liberals-strom-californias-bedrooms.html

The stupidity of the thread OP may lower your IQ a tad but I won't stop you from visiting it.

It's a good thing, then, you didn't have much to lose.

 

[X Factor]

That is not an authoritarian appeal. It is simply mocking. Please learn what words mean before using them.

So when Rocket says Republicans are pro rape, do tell me what that means other than what it simply says.

 

[Redress]

So when Rocket says Republicans are pro rape, do tell me what that means other than what it simply says.

It means exactly what it says. It is not authoritarian, it is mean spirited mocking. Not saying it is good, but words have meanings.

 

[Lutherf]

So much for the ridiculous myth that liberals are socially libertarian; that liberals are “live and let live” types simply defending themselves against judgmental conservatives, the real aggressors in the culture war.

It always has been a silly concete. It runs counter to everything liberals take pride in. They can't be "agents for change" and not be aggressive in pushing their moral agenda. Many conservatives want to do likewise, of course, but when they do liberals screech and scream about theocracy and decry the Orwellian horror and moan and groan about conservatives forcing their values on everyone.

It will be a bit harder for liberals to keep a straight face when making that argument now that Jerry Brown signed a law that micro-manages sexual encounters in a way that turns most normal sex into rape. There must be an affirmative declaration of consent at each stage of the encounter according to the law, which applies to sex on campus. Of course, no one has sex like that.

Talk about using the blunt instrument of the state to intrude into people's sex lives and bedrooms. And based, at that, on a particular peculiar and extreme view of the morality of sex.

The upshot is that according to the liberals who supported this law the state is justified in regulating sex because some feminist writers are convinced some people are doing it wrong. One doesn’t have to take a position on that claim to wonder whether it’s the government’s place to tell people how to do it right.

Liberals Storm California's Bedrooms | RealClearPolitics

I really think you're reading too much into this. All this law does is give everyone a good reason to videotape their sexual activity for evidentiary purposes.

 

[iguanaman]

I find it quite troubling that in an environment that is supposed to be inhabited by adults, we treat them as if we expect less of them than we expect of kindergartners. Why does behavior on a college campus need to be codified? Can we not just tell college students, you are now of adult age. You will act of adult age or you will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law just like any other adult? No, that would make too much sense. College is a magical environment that removes all responsibility and judgment. Give me a break.

Actually you put your finger on it. College IS a magical place. Students are isolated from real world problems and often protected from obeying certain laws by the College Administration for mutual benefit. Spelling it out is as much for college administrators as it is for the Students. It says we won't allow the concerns of "bad press" from College big wigs cloud the prosecution of rape accusations.

 

[Jack Fabulous]

Actually you put your finger on it. College IS a magical place. Students are isolated from real world problems and often protected from obeying certain laws by the College Administration for mutual benefit. Spelling it out is as much for college administrators as it is for the Students. It says we won't allow the concerns of "bad press" from College big wigs cloud the prosecution of rape accusations.

I'm still not really getting what they are hoping to accomplish with this law. So college students now need a level of consent before they have sex that the rest of the population does not?

 

[Jack Hays]

college students - Los Angeles Times

www.[B]latimes[/B].com/opinion/editorials/la-ed-affirmative-...Los Angeles Times


By The Times Editorial Board contact the reporter ... Sexual assault on campus: Is 'affirmative consent' the solution? Few people these days would disagree that ...

". . . Those changes, though well intentioned, merely underscore the complicated terrain that this legislation attempts to navigate. It's one thing for counselors or school administrators to teach students how important it is to have the consent of their partners. Students should understand about the confusion surrounding consent. They should know that drunk people are not in position to say yes. They should be aware that consent can be revoked at any time. They should be urged to be attentive to what their partners want or don't want.


But a state law is not the way to convey messages better imparted by experts. It's one thing for the government to say what people may not do, but it's more worrisome when politicians tell us what we must do. Yes, the new standard might help in the adjudication of sexual assault allegations, but its language still seems both vague — what exactly would constitute an unambiguous sign of consent? — and unnecessarily intrusive. . . ."