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Let's stop 'thanking' and honoring the military for their service until we know...

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btthegreat

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what their service actually entailed. I won't do it, if I don't know that I approve of what they were ordered to do, that it merits more honor than say teaching or caregiving, or nursing or cleaning bodies in the mortuary. For that matter I don't know if they like that attention. So often it's the first and rather perfunctory words people say as a habit or in abstract. It comes off awkward, insincere and superficial because its abundantly clear we don't know what the hell they did yet.

But we do know they are just like the rest of us humans and they chose to join the military for self- interested reasons. The cliched 'I did it for my country' is at best a half truth. They each got a monthly check, and we can be sure they cashed it. And then there is all of this Here are some benefits. That represents a financial bonanza, if prudently exploited.

I normally do not thank people for doing what I do not want done. If they are part of an active mission, and I don't support the mission, I need to ask questions about their specific role. If they were shooting guns I don't want shot, and people I don't want killed, or maimed. I won't be thanking them. If they are taking care of the wounded, feeding our soldiers etc, I probably will. During peacetime, they are probably not doing harm, but they are being well compensated for practicing their skillset out of harm's way. I tend not to thank secretaries, cooks, janitors, clerks etc for doing those kinds of tasks.

DP proves my real objection to the whole idea, in cultural microcosm right here. https://debatepolitics.com/award-system/list DP has a list of badges designed of course to symbolize our collective recognition of 'military service' without any real thought behind what it actually represents. Among them is this one :

Israeli Defense Forces
This member has served in the Israeli Defense Forces - thank you for your service!

Well I am absolutely not interested in 'thanking the Israeli Defense Force Members for their service' these days, unless I know exactly what the hell they did.

and that is equally true of everyone else who warrants one of these military badges. Too many skeletons in miltary closets. Our own military has been given plenty of orders, I would rather they had never obeyed.
 
BirdinHand said:
Well, considering I’m not in Israel, I don’t feel a need to thank their military.

I will thank the US military for their service though. Regardless if I support the decisions made by government as to what our military engages in.
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1. As a member of DP, the thanking was done for you.
2. Why? They implemented the decision. Is their service somehow separated from the actual effects and impact it had?
 
btthegreat said:
what their service actually entailed. I won't do it, if I don't know that I approve of what they were ordered to do, that it merits more honor than say teaching or caregiving, or nursing or cleaning bodies in the mortuary. For that matter I don't know if they like that attention. So often it's the first and rather perfunctory words people say as a habit or in abstract. It comes off awkward, insincere and superficial because its abundantly clear we don't know what the hell they did yet.

But we do know they are just like the rest of us humans and they chose to join the military for self- interested reasons. The cliched 'I did it for my country' is at best a half truth. They each got a monthly check, and we can be sure they cashed it. And then there is all of this Here are some benefits. That represents a financial bonanza, if prudently exploited.

I normally do not thank people for doing what I do not want done. If they are part of an active mission, and I don't support the mission, I need to ask questions about their specific role. If they were shooting guns I don't want shot, and people I don't want killed, or maimed. I won't be thanking them. If they are taking care of the wounded, feeding our soldiers etc, I probably will. During peacetime, they are probably not doing harm, but they are being well compensated for practicing their skillset out of harm's way. I tend not to thank secretaries, cooks, janitors, clerks etc for doing those kinds of tasks.

DP proves my real objection to the whole idea, in cultural microcosm right here. https://debatepolitics.com/award-system/list DP has a list of badges designed of course to symbolize our collective recognition of 'military service' without any real thought behind what it actually represents. Among them is this one :

Israeli Defense Forces
This member has served in the Israeli Defense Forces - thank you for your service!

Well I am absolutely not interested in 'thanking the Israeli Defense Force Members for their service' these days, unless I know exactly what the hell they did.

and that is equally true of everyone else who warrants one of these military badges. Too many skeletons in miltary closets. Our own military has been given plenty of orders, I would rather they had never obeyed.
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Remember your post the next time they go fight for our rights and freedom. You do know they do that everyday, as a good deterrent is better than a bad armed conflict. Their very presence protects you every day. Just like the police, firefighters and other first responders.
 
Integrityrespec said:
Remember your post the next time they go fight for our rights and freedom. You do know they do that everyday, as a good deterrent is better than a bad armed conflict. Their very presence protects you every day. Just like the police, firefighters and other first responders.
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They are paid staff of our government. I want them to be well compensated just as I do any other staff. But before I thank them, I want to know what they did and that what they did deserves that gratitude. I don't want them treated 'special' simply because they put that uniform on.
 
btthegreat said:
They are paid staff of our government. I want them to be well compensated just as I do any other staff. But before I thank them, I want to know what they did and that what they did deserves that gratitude. I don't want them treated 'special' simply because they put that uniform on.
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Putting that uniform on means that any time that person could be put into very dangerous situations, separated from their family and friends for long amounts of time.

The kicker, and reason it's "special", is because it's at the request of the people and the government of the United States. They aren't picking and choosing, they aren't deciding that now isn't the right time. At any point, if the people of the US feel as though US military force is needed, then those people in uniform have their lives upended.
 
btthegreat said:
They are paid staff of our government. I want them to be well compensated just as I do any other staff. But before I thank them, I want to know what they did and that what they did deserves that gratitude. I don't want them treated 'special' simply because they put that uniform on.
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So they are only doing the right thing if you decide that it's so? Well that attitude leaves this open to 330 million varied opinions. The job is follow orders, they take an oath and unless there is something that violates the US Military Code of Conduct they are bound by their oath.
The US Military Code of Conduct is a set of guidelines that outline the expected behavior of service members during combat or captivity. It emphasizes resistance, honor, and loyalty to the United States. The code consists of six articles, each detailing specific obligations and principles for service members.
 
The US Military Code of Conduct is a set of guidelines that outline the expected behavior of service members during combat or captivity. It emphasizes resistance, honor, and loyalty to the United States. The code consists of six articles, each detailing specific obligations and principles for service members.

Here's a breakdown of the six articles:

Article I: Service members are American warriors prepared to give their lives in defense of their country and way of life.

Article II: Members should never surrender of their own free will, and if in command, must not surrender their subordinates while they still have the means to resist.

Article III: If captured, service members must continue to resist by all available means, make every effort to escape and aid others to escape, and accept no parole or special favors from the enemy.

Article IV: If captured, service members must maintain faith with fellow prisoners, avoid actions harmful to comrades, and assume command if senior.

Article V: When questioned as a prisoner of war, service members are required to provide name, rank, service number, and date of birth, and evade further questioning to the best of their ability.

Article VI: Service members must never forget that they are Americans fighting for freedom, responsible for their actions, and dedicated to the principles that made their country free. They should trust in God and the United States.

The Code of Conduct is intended to provide a framework for ethical behavior and resistance in the face of adversity, ensuring service members uphold their duty to the nation, even under duress. It also emphasizes the importance of resisting enemy exploitation and returning to friendly forces when possible.
 
As a veteran, I'm all for just being left alone when I'm walking on the street.

Being "thanked for my service" our of nowhere says more to me about nationalistic brainwashing and the reflexive need to worship the military whether or not the wars we fought in, or the loads of people we have killed - many innocent - were justified.
 
StillBallin75 said:
As a veteran, I'm all for just being left alone when I'm walking on the street.

Being "thanked for my service" our of nowhere says more to me about nationalistic brainwashing and the reflexive need to worship the military whether or not the wars we fought in, or the loads of people we have killed - many innocent - were justified.
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That's not why everyone says it. IMO it's not worship or brainwashing, but a thank you to someone (you included) for risking yourself in service and/or upending you and your family's lives.

How would they know you were a veteran anyway, just walking on the street?
 
iliveonramen said:
Putting that uniform on means that any time that person could be put into very dangerous situations, separated from their family and friends for long amounts of time.

The kicker, and reason it's "special", is because it's at the request of the people and the government of the United States. They aren't picking and choosing, they aren't deciding that now isn't the right time. At any point, if the people of the US feel as though US military force is needed, then those people in uniform have their lives upended.
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We definitely want these employees to 'put the uniform on' and to be willing to be separated during their tour of duty. They cash those checks and they receive those benefits because the position comes with those well spelled out inconveniences, sacrifices and risks. Privately paid mercenaries have their lives upended, basically the same thing for a different employer for different wages and benefits and they don't do much choosing either.

The 'people of the US' are not consulted about when US force is needed or not. There is no national referendum held before military operations are ordered.

Again I thank people for what I want them to do. Having put on the uniform and signing the papers, just isn't enough. I want to know what they did was not something I wish had not happened.
 
Integrityrespec said:
So they are only doing the right thing if you decide that it's so? Well that attitude leaves this open to 330 million varied opinions. The job is follow orders, they take an oath and unless there is something that violates the US Military Code of Conduct they are bound by their oath.
The US Military Code of Conduct is a set of guidelines that outline the expected behavior of service members during combat or captivity. It emphasizes resistance, honor, and loyalty to the United States. The code consists of six articles, each detailing specific obligations and principles for service members.
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To get my gratitude, they sure as hell better be doing what I think they should be doing. To be paid and receive those benefits, they have to do their job.
 
I wear a baseball cap from the USS Missouri, of which my grandfather proudly served on. He was there on the day the armistice was signed after seeing action in numerous places around the Pacific.

My dad was also in the Navy, as was my daughter, and my brother was a marine. Myself, i served in the Air Force and was extremely proud to have that as part of my early adult life.

When someone thanks me for my service, i graciously say thank you back. It just isnt for me, but for my family, and all others who have served our country in war or peacetime.

If you dont want to thank veterans, dont. Guess what? We served to give you that right.
 
btthegreat said:
what their service actually entailed. I won't do it, if I don't know that I approve of what they were ordered to do, that it merits more honor than say teaching or caregiving, or nursing or cleaning bodies in the mortuary. For that matter I don't know if they like that attention. So often it's the first and rather perfunctory words people say as a habit or in abstract. It comes off awkward, insincere and superficial because its abundantly clear we don't know what the hell they did yet.

But we do know they are just like the rest of us humans and they chose to join the military for self- interested reasons. The cliched 'I did it for my country' is at best a half truth. They each got a monthly check, and we can be sure they cashed it. And then there is all of this Here are some benefits. That represents a financial bonanza, if prudently exploited.

I normally do not thank people for doing what I do not want done. If they are part of an active mission, and I don't support the mission, I need to ask questions about their specific role. If they were shooting guns I don't want shot, and people I don't want killed, or maimed. I won't be thanking them. If they are taking care of the wounded, feeding our soldiers etc, I probably will. During peacetime, they are probably not doing harm, but they are being well compensated for practicing their skillset out of harm's way. I tend not to thank secretaries, cooks, janitors, clerks etc for doing those kinds of tasks.

DP proves my real objection to the whole idea, in cultural microcosm right here. https://debatepolitics.com/award-system/list DP has a list of badges designed of course to symbolize our collective recognition of 'military service' without any real thought behind what it actually represents. Among them is this one :

Israeli Defense Forces
This member has served in the Israeli Defense Forces - thank you for your service!

Well I am absolutely not interested in 'thanking the Israeli Defense Force Members for their service' these days, unless I know exactly what the hell they did.

and that is equally true of everyone else who warrants one of these military badges. Too many skeletons in miltary closets. Our own military has been given plenty of orders, I would rather they had never obeyed.
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Con-ditional, eh? 🤨
 
btthegreat said:
what their service actually entailed. I won't do it, if I don't know that I approve of what they were ordered to do, that it merits more honor than say teaching or caregiving, or nursing or cleaning bodies in the mortuary. For that matter I don't know if they like that attention. So often it's the first and rather perfunctory words people say as a habit or in abstract. It comes off awkward, insincere and superficial because its abundantly clear we don't know what the hell they did yet.

But we do know they are just like the rest of us humans and they chose to join the military for self- interested reasons. The cliched 'I did it for my country' is at best a half truth. They each got a monthly check, and we can be sure they cashed it. And then there is all of this Here are some benefits. That represents a financial bonanza, if prudently exploited.

I normally do not thank people for doing what I do not want done. If they are part of an active mission, and I don't support the mission, I need to ask questions about their specific role. If they were shooting guns I don't want shot, and people I don't want killed, or maimed. I won't be thanking them. If they are taking care of the wounded, feeding our soldiers etc, I probably will. During peacetime, they are probably not doing harm, but they are being well compensated for practicing their skillset out of harm's way. I tend not to thank secretaries, cooks, janitors, clerks etc for doing those kinds of tasks.

DP proves my real objection to the whole idea, in cultural microcosm right here. https://debatepolitics.com/award-system/list DP has a list of badges designed of course to symbolize our collective recognition of 'military service' without any real thought behind what it actually represents. Among them is this one :

Israeli Defense Forces
This member has served in the Israeli Defense Forces - thank you for your service!

Well I am absolutely not interested in 'thanking the Israeli Defense Force Members for their service' these days, unless I know exactly what the hell they did.

and that is equally true of everyone else who warrants one of these military badges. Too many skeletons in miltary closets. Our own military has been given plenty of orders, I would rather they had never obeyed.
Click to expand...
I think if someone wants to thank someone who served in the military, that’s fine. If one doesn’t, that’s fine also. I don’t see this as e big deal, either way. Why this would warrant a thread is beyond me.
 
btthegreat said:
We definitely want these employees to 'put the uniform on' and to be willing to be separated during their tour of duty. They cash those checks and they receive those benefits because the position comes with those well spelled out inconveniences, sacrifices and risks. Privately paid mercenaries have their lives upended, basically the same thing for a different employer for different wages and benefits and they don't do much choosing either.
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Those benefits and pay are not equal to what the job entails and it's nothing like those merc groups.

btthegreat said:
The 'people of the US' are not consulted about when US force is needed or not. There is no national referendum held before military operations are ordered.
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They vote representatives, those representatives decide where we go. People that serve make up like 1% of the population. The other 99% are the ones that are determining when and where they are used.
btthegreat said:
Again I thank people for what I want them to do. Having put on the uniform and signing the papers, just isn't enough. I want to know what they did was not something I wish had not happened.
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You're under zero obligation to thank anyone for their service. I don't agree with your reasoning, but it is still a free country.
 
Perotista said:
Why this would warrant a thread is beyond me.
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Because it seems that the entire world should revolve around the OP. Commonly known as "Main Character Syndrome".

il_fullxfull.5485456781_qdrm.jpg
 
iliveonramen said:
Putting that uniform on means that any time that person could be put into very dangerous situations, separated from their family and friends for long amounts of time.

The kicker, and reason it's "special", is because it's at the request of the people and the government of the United States. They aren't picking and choosing, they aren't deciding that now isn't the right time. At any point, if the people of the US feel as though US military force is needed, then those people in uniform have their lives upended.
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Exactly, I am liberal as is expressed by Chaucer however I recognize that folks in the Army (or any other branch) don't get to pick and choose.
It's dirty, thankless dangerous work and I thank them for being tough enough to do it, for shit pay, to boot.

The message I got from watching the Waterloo Follies aka Trump's Big Fat Parade is that they are more with us than He Who Shall Not Be Trusted and that
he better damn well stop shitting on them and using them as cheap props.
I think most of America received the same message and I think most of our soldiers know that a lot of us are on the same wavelength with a fair amount of
solidarity where the rubber meets the road.
 
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