Scriptures that you base such beliefs on please...
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Let’s Talk Predestination
- Thread starter VySky
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I know that you are troubled by the word ‘ego’ which does not appear in any concordance of the Bible. However if a Bible student focuses on every mention of pride and/or humility you might understand why pride(ego) holds first place amongst the 7 cardinal sins. It is in the scripture…find it read it and then take the next step and allow the Spirit to help process it for you….
We're in Theology...if you cannot answer my question biblically I understand...it's an ego/pride thing along with moving the goal posts regarding your previous post...
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The Golden Chain of Salvation
Something to consider. Being born again is like being born the first time. We did not choose when we were born the first time.
Page 1 0f 2
Key words "HIM"
It is by grace, a gift from God, that you are saved through faith. Man doesn't choose grace. Gifts are given, not requested
If we believe God is sovereign then he is sovereign 100% of the time. Thinking that God looks down the hallway of time and saves those he knows will choose him is making man sovereign. That's just not biblical.
Those he foreknew
1 Peter 1:1-4
1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who are elect exiles of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood:
May grace and peace be multiplied to you.
Born Again to a Living Hope
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you,
Those He Predestined
Ephesians 1:4-5
4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
5 he predestined usb for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,
Ephesians 1:11
11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,
Isaiah 59:16
16 He saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no one to intercede; then his own arm brought him salvation,
and his righteousness upheld him.
Ctd;
Something to consider. Being born again is like being born the first time. We did not choose when we were born the first time.
Page 1 0f 2
Key words "HIM"
It is by grace, a gift from God, that you are saved through faith. Man doesn't choose grace. Gifts are given, not requested
If we believe God is sovereign then he is sovereign 100% of the time. Thinking that God looks down the hallway of time and saves those he knows will choose him is making man sovereign. That's just not biblical.
Those he foreknew
1 Peter 1:1-4
1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who are elect exiles of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood:
May grace and peace be multiplied to you.
Born Again to a Living Hope
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you,
Those He Predestined
Ephesians 1:4-5
4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
5 he predestined usb for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,
Ephesians 1:11
11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,
Isaiah 59:16
16 He saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no one to intercede; then his own arm brought him salvation,
and his righteousness upheld him.
Ctd;
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Those He Called
John 10:3
3 To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.
II Peter 1:10-11
10 Therefore, brothers,g be all the more diligent to confirm your calling and election, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall.
11 For in this way there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
John 6:37, 44-45, 65
37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
45 It is written in the Prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me—
65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
Those He Justified
Romans 9:14-18
14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means!
15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”
16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion,b but on God, who has mercy.
17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”
18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
Romans 9:11
11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls
Romans 9:23
23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory
Those He Called
John 10:3
3 To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.
II Peter 1:10-11
10 Therefore, brothers,g be all the more diligent to confirm your calling and election, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall.
11 For in this way there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
John 6:37, 44-45, 65
37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
45 It is written in the Prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me—
65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
Those He Justified
Romans 9:14-18
14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means!
15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”
16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion,b but on God, who has mercy.
17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”
18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
Romans 9:11
11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls
Romans 9:23
23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory
Our gift to God, the only gift we are able to give Him, is our obedience...
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There are people who are pre-destined to become Christians but that does not mean that the others are for damnation. God's foreknowledge has no impact on our free will and our ability to cooperate with his grace.
The Calvanistic/Presbyterian view of pre-destination can be debunked by many other supporting scriptures in addition to Church fathers.
But say hypothetically you were pre-destined and one of the elect. You would not consciously know this. So there's no point in dwelling upon this more obscure doctrine.
The Calvanistic/Presbyterian view of pre-destination can be debunked by many other supporting scriptures in addition to Church fathers.
But say hypothetically you were pre-destined and one of the elect. You would not consciously know this. So there's no point in dwelling upon this more obscure doctrine.
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Honestly I don't believe we can really understand predestination until we are with God. Predestination is a thing but how and why is not possible for us to know at this time, or so I believe.
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I believe we are ALL predestined to become followers of Jesus.
On another note, I believe that God does assign us to particular circumstances in this life in order to test and prepare us for our roles in his Kingdom. In that regard I do see predestination at work but how and why some are predestined differently is above my pay grade.
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Agreed. I accept the Calvanist view as I believe that is what scripture, especially the Book of Romans, tells us. To that end, I also admit I do not know if I am one of Gods elect.
Scripture like the parable of the 4 soils and the 10 virgins shows us there are a majority of those who think they are saved but in actuality are not. Of the 4 soils, only 25% of those who thought they were saved were indeed saved,
When we are at the judgement seat there will be one of two outcomes. Either Jesus will say 'depart from me you workers of lawlessness', or 'well done, good and faithful servant.'.
Matthew 7:21-23
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’
23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
Matthew 25:23
23 His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.’
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The main message of Genesis is autonomy free will and moral development. God doesn't want humans to be like ants or bees. The concept of predestined is just an excuse for failure, " Its not my fault"I just opened a can of worms. Let’s discuss.
Thoughts?
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The words translated “predestined” in the Scriptures referenced above are from the Greek word proorizo, which carries the meaning of “determining beforehand,” “ordaining,” “deciding ahead of time.” So, predestination is God determining certain things to occur ahead of time. What did God determine ahead of time? According to Romans 8:29-30, God predetermined that certain individuals would be conformed to the likeness of His Son, be called, justified, and glorified. Essentially, God predetermines that certain individuals will be saved. Numerous scriptures refer to believers in Christ being chosen (Matthew 24:22, 31; Mark 13:20, 27; Romans 8:33, 9:11, 11:5-7, 28; Ephesians 1:11; Colossians 3:12; 1 Thessalonians 1:4; 1 Timothy 5:21; 2 Timothy 2:10; Titus 1:1; 1 Peter 1:1-2, 2:9; 2 Peter 1:10). Predestination is the biblical doctrine that God in His sovereignty chooses certain individuals to be saved.
What is predestination? Is predestination biblical? | GotQuestions.org
What is predestination / predetermination? Is predestination biblical? What does predestined mean? Does God predestine who will be saved?www.gotquestions.org
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Predestination and election are truths taught in the Bible. They are not 'an excuse for failure'.
Many disagree with these truths, but that doesn't mean they are not taught in Scripture. They are.
The message of Genesis is 'origins'. And usually man's moral development gets in the way of God. Morality is man's term to define his goodness. God says man has none. (Mark 10:18) (Rom. 3:10)
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The main message of Genesis is free will and morality not predestination which reduces the human being to the level of an ant. Jews wrote Genesis not Christians who have no idea what it means
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Why shouldn't Christians know what (Genesis) means? Do we not have the Holy Spirit? Just because one is a Jew doesn't mean he knows the Scripture. How silly.
Through ignorance of the Scripture the Jews killed Christ. (Acts 3:17) "And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers." Jesus said to the Jews, "Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God." (Matt. 22:29)
And to this very day there is judicial blindness upon the Jews concerning Christ and the Scritpures. (Rom. 11:25) "...that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in." Are we not in the 'Times of the Gentiles'? (Luke 21:24) "And they shall fall by the edge of the sword...and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled."
The Jews at this time are in no position to be understanding the Scriptures.
Again, the book of (Genesis) is the book of origins.
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Let’s look at the book of Joel chapter 2 verse 32.
While everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. Yet in this scriptures context, the word “everyone” are those ones the Lord calls.
Joel 2:32
32 “And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape, as the Lord has said, and among the survivors shall be those whom the Lord calls.”
Joel 2:32 ESV
While everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. Yet in this scriptures context, the word “everyone” are those ones the Lord calls.
Joel 2:32
32 “And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape, as the Lord has said, and among the survivors shall be those whom the Lord calls.”
Joel 2:32 ESV
Joel 2:32 And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape, as the LORD has said, and among the surviv | English Standard Version Revision 201
And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape, as the LORD has said, and among the surviv
bible.com