Let’s Talk Predestination

[VySky]

I just opened a can of worms. Let’s discuss.

Thoughts?
—-


The words translated “predestined” in the Scriptures referenced above are from the Greek word proorizo, which carries the meaning of “determining beforehand,” “ordaining,” “deciding ahead of time.” So, predestination is God determining certain things to occur ahead of time. What did God determine ahead of time? According to Romans 8:29-30, God predetermined that certain individuals would be conformed to the likeness of His Son, be called, justified, and glorified. Essentially, God predetermines that certain individuals will be saved. Numerous scriptures refer to believers in Christ being chosen (Matthew 24:22, 31; Mark 13:20, 27; Romans 8:33, 9:11, 11:5-7, 28; Ephesians 1:11; Colossians 3:12; 1 Thessalonians 1:4; 1 Timothy 5:21; 2 Timothy 2:10; Titus 1:1; 1 Peter 1:1-2, 2:9; 2 Peter 1:10). Predestination is the biblical doctrine that God in His sovereignty chooses certain individuals to be saved.

What is predestination? Is predestination biblical? | GotQuestions.org

What is predestination / predetermination? Is predestination biblical? What does predestined mean? Does God predestine who will be saved?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[RabidAlpaca]

It's possibly the most sadistic and immoral theistic concept anyone has ever dreamt up. Someone that believes that believes that god created billions of people for the explicit and intentional purpose of eternal damnnation and torture.

There's nothing that person can do to change his hellish destiny, so free will, morality, and everything else become meaningless. This is really the scummiest gutter of theology and I pity and look down on anyone that actually believes that.

 

[VySky]

It's possibly the most sadistic and immoral theistic concept anyone has ever dreamt up. Someone that believes that believes that god created billions of people for the explicit and intentional purpose of eternal damnnation and torture.

There's nothing that person can do to change his hellish destiny, so free will, morality, and everything else become meaningless. This is really the scummiest gutter of theology and I pity and look down on anyone that actually believes that.

But predestination is not the only way to salvation

 

[VySky]

Effectual Calling - The Gospel Coalition

The particular, effectual, spiritual call wherein the Father calls the elect to the Son through the power of the Holy Spirit.

www.thegospelcoalition.org

 

[Jkca1]

Predestination makes about as cents as a penny.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

But predestination is not the only way to salvation

By definition it is. Either god made you saved or he didn't. You have no power over where you're going so religion is pointless. Stop going to church, you're predestined to be saved anyway so it's a waste of time.

Stop with these lazy one liners. Defend your position or attack mine.

 

[tosca1]

I just opened a can of worms. Let’s discuss.

Thoughts?
—-


The words translated “predestined” in the Scriptures referenced above are from the Greek word proorizo, which carries the meaning of “determining beforehand,” “ordaining,” “deciding ahead of time.” So, predestination is God determining certain things to occur ahead of time. What did God determine ahead of time? According to Romans 8:29-30, God predetermined that certain individuals would be conformed to the likeness of His Son, be called, justified, and glorified. Essentially, God predetermines that certain individuals will be saved. Numerous scriptures refer to believers in Christ being chosen (Matthew 24:22, 31; Mark 13:20, 27; Romans 8:33, 9:11, 11:5-7, 28; Ephesians 1:11; Colossians 3:12; 1 Thessalonians 1:4; 1 Timothy 5:21; 2 Timothy 2:10; Titus 1:1; 1 Peter 1:1-2, 2:9; 2 Peter 1:10). Predestination is the biblical doctrine that God in His sovereignty chooses certain individuals to be saved.

What is predestination? Is predestination biblical? | GotQuestions.org

What is predestination / predetermination? Is predestination biblical? What does predestined mean? Does God predestine who will be saved?

www.gotquestions.org

Romans 8
29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.


They were pre-destined to be conformed to the image of Christ, they were called by Him, and JUSTIFIED by Him, and glorified.
Those whom God pre-destined are meant to accomplish something for God. They were pre-destined to be saved too.

 

[tosca1]

By definition it is. Either god made you saved or he didn't. You have no power over where you're going so religion is pointless. Stop going to church, you're predestined to be saved anyway so it's a waste of time.

Stop with these lazy one liners. Defend your position or attack mine.

No.
Having been predestined to be saved, does not eliminate the choice that others still have.
We still have a choice even if Abraham or certain individuals were pre-destined by God to be saved.

 

[Daisy]

No such thing...

 

[VySky]

By definition it is. Either god made you saved or he didn't. You have no power over where you're going so religion is pointless. Stop going to church, you're predestined to be saved anyway so it's a waste of time.

Stop with these lazy one liners. Defend your position or attack mine.

Then there is another calling

The Gospel Call​

But to understanding God’s call it must be recognized from the start that there are two types of calling. First, there is the gospel call. This call is the gospel message proclaimed and extended to sinners. The gospel call is issued whenever Jesus Christ and him crucified and resurrected is preached from pulpits or shared in evangelistic conversations. This gospel call is indiscriminate, meant to be spread to anyone and everyone who will hear it. It knows no barriers but goes out freely and universally to all who will hear it. Hence it has sometimes been referred to as God’s general call. This gospel call also invites sinners to repent and trust in Christ (Matt. 11:28; Luke 14:23), promising that anyone who does will be forgiven and receive life everlasting, which only Christ himself can give.

 

[tosca1]

Someone that believes that believes that god created billions of people for the explicit and intentional purpose of eternal damnnation and torture.

He didn't predestined people for eternal damnation.
He predestined CERTAIN people for salvation (for His purpose). Big difference.

 

[craig]

It amazes me how religion can make people jump through illogical hoops.

 

[VySky]

It amazes me how religion can make people jump through illogical hoops.

Scripture says to not trust in our own understanding in this regard.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

He didn't predestined people for eternal damnation.
He predestined CERTAIN people for salvation (for His purpose). Big difference.

You're just making up your own version of it, just like everyone else does. Lots of Christian sects, like Calvinists, believe that god creates most people to go to hell. You can disagree with it, but can't deny that's the position.

Then there is another calling

The Gospel Call​

But to understanding God’s call it must be recognized from the start that there are two types of calling. First, there is the gospel call. This call is the gospel message proclaimed and extended to sinners. The gospel call is issued whenever Jesus Christ and him crucified and resurrected is preached from pulpits or shared in evangelistic conversations. This gospel call is indiscriminate, meant to be spread to anyone and everyone who will hear it. It knows no barriers but goes out freely and universally to all who will hear it. Hence it has sometimes been referred to as God’s general call. This gospel call also invites sinners to repent and trust in Christ (Matt. 11:28; Luke 14:23), promising that anyone who does will be forgiven and receive life everlasting, which only Christ himself can give.

Use your words to make a point. You're lazy and copy pasting.

 

[tosca1]

You're just making up your own version of it, just like everyone else does. Lots of Christian sects, like Calvinists, believe that god creates most people to go to hell. You can disagree with it, but can't deny that's the position.

No - I based it on the verse that I gave. Read it.....

Will you support your claim. Cite please.

 

[VySky]

Y

You're just making up your own version of it, just like everyone else does. Lots of Christian sects, like Calvinists, believe that god creates most people to go to hell. You can disagree with it, but can't deny that's the position.


Use your words to make a point. You're lazy and copy pasting.

I’m not making points but providing documentation that addresses the conversation. I wanted to back the comment that predestination is not the only way to salvation

 

[tosca1]

It amazes me how religion can make people jump through illogical hoops.

What "illogical hoops" are those you refer to?
Be specific.

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

I am predestined to be a SNOWFLAKE, all else is nonsense

 

[Loulit01]

Calvin is dead. Good riddance.

 

[craig]

Scripture says to not trust in our own understanding in this regard.

I am not surprised.

 

[craig]

What "illogical hoops" are those you refer to?
Be specific.

Pick one. They are all illogical.

 

[tosca1]

Pick one. They are all illogical.

Lol - another freakin' scavenger hunt!



It's laughable when people can't follow through the claims they make in forums.
I certainly have an idea...................................why.

 

[VySky]

I am not surprised.

Not surprised at scripture?

 

[craig]

Not surprised at scripture?

Not surprised at the circular logic.

 

[Tinkerpeaches]

By definition it is. Either god made you saved or he didn't. You have no power over where you're going so religion is pointless. Stop going to church, you're predestined to be saved anyway so it's a waste of time.

Stop with these lazy one liners. Defend your position or attack mine.

You don’t know that though. Perhaps God just started the world and let it randomize without His interference.

Since He is God He can do anything including that. This question is very similar to the question of “can God make a rock He can’t move?”

So the answer in to both questions is irrelevant because they are scenarios that God would never put Himself in.

Because you can’t figure out an answer doesn’t mean there isn’t one.