Leaving NATO? (1 Viewer)

[Rumpel]

Leaving NATO has been a popular idea for some at times.
I wonder how the feeling is now theses days.

 

[Rumpel]

my country is a member of NATO and I want to stay it that way​

 

[Rumpel]

Now 2 out of 2 say:

my country is a member of NATO and I want to stay it that way​

 

[Mycroft]

Leaving NATO has been a popular idea for some at times.
I wonder how the feeling is now theses days.

Other.

NATO is a good thing...mainly for the Europeans...that has gotten so bastardized by Globalists that it is virtually useless.

I think NATO should be dissolved.

 

[Luce]

Other.

NATO is a good thing...mainly for the Europeans...that has gotten so bastardized by Globalists that it is virtually useless.

I think NATO should be dissolved.

You forgot the triple brackets around "Globalists".

 

[SkyChief]

My country has always done the heavy-lifting with regards to contributions to NATO.

We give over TWICE as much in contributions as our European members.

US contributes over 3.7% of our GDP on defense, while the average for NATO's European members was only 1.77%!

Which is ironic, since NATO was established to protect European countries from invasion by Russia. It stands to reason that Europeans should be the major contributors.

We spend the most money and get the least benefits. For that reason, U.S. should leave NATO.

 

[Luce]

My country has always done the heavy-lifting with regards to contributions to NATO.

We give over TWICE as much in contributions as our European members.

So what? Our economy is more than twice theirs, and our population is probably pretty close to that, too.

 

[Gatsby]

NATO is one of the most important international organizations in the world, and its influence is almost entirely positive. We should definitely stay in NATO. In fact, we should strengthen NATO.

 

[CaughtInThe]

Boooooooooo!!!!

Should have been a public poll.

 

[ElChupacabra]

I am in favor of the US staying in NATO, but have thought for quite a while that the involvement from European nations should increase to reflect a more balanced approach to defense of their continent. I didn't disagree with the former administration's stance on having European nation contribute more financially, but did not agree with its threats to leave the alliance.

 

[SkyChief]

So what? Our economy is more than twice theirs, and our population is probably pretty close to that, too.

You're missing the point. NATO protects Europe from Russian expansionism. Russia is not going to expand to the US, so we really don't need to be a member of a body which prevents it.

What's the point of buying aircraft insurance if you don't own a plane?

 

[Luce]

You're missing the point. NATO benefits Europe from Russian expansionism. Russia is not going to expand to the US, so we really don't need to be a member.

What's the point of buying airplane insurance if you don't own a plane?

NATO exists to deter further world wars.

If you don't see why that's in our interest, then I don't know what to say to you.

 

[Centrist]

LePen will cause issues for NATO stability. If populism wins in France it will be a disaster for the alliance. I can tell you a lot of Eastern European media is nervous for France.

Some people that like to criticize France, I won't mention who they are, should keep their mouth shut before this election. It is crucial for Macron to win this election for the stability of Europe.

The risk of populism in Europe is here. This is due to the war, the criminal Putin and the so called "professionalism" of the president of Ukraine in my opinion. He criticized Orban, the madman got more votes, a few days ago he was praising the UK and attacking Macron. Now the far right is closing in on Macron.

Where I was born. The far right is at 20 % and people are voicing concerns with economics.

So the question is? Will we be loyal here and understand that there will be costs to this war? Or we will have 10 mini Donnie Trumps and no NATO alliance running around? Also forget EU either. We all know how nationalists think.

I am starting to think this is Putin's game if he does not find a deal that he wants there. He will test West's loyalty based on the economy.

 

[Callen]

My country has always done the heavy-lifting with regards to contributions to NATO.

We give over TWICE as much in contributions as our European members.

US contributes over 3.7% of our GDP on defense, while the average for NATO's European members was only 1.77%!

Which is ironic, since NATO was established to protect European countries from invasion by Russia. It stands to reason that Europeans should be the major contributors.

We spend the most money and get the least benefits. For that reason, U.S. should leave NATO.

You don't GIVE squat to NATO. You chose to spend what you choose to spend on defense with no thought to NATO. As for your false statement that you get the least benefits......the US is the ONLY NATO country to ever invoke article 5 and we all came running to support you.

If you think that the US involvnent in NATO for altruistic reasons you are incredibly ill informed and/or naive

 

[SkyChief]

NATO exists to deter further world wars.

WRONG.

NATO was formed in 1949 to provide collective security of European countries against the threat posed by the Soviet Union.

The U.N. was created to deter further world wars.

 

[watsup]

My country has always done the heavy-lifting with regards to contributions to NATO.

We give over TWICE as much in contributions as our European members.

US contributes over 3.7% of our GDP on defense, while the average for NATO's European members was only 1.77%!

Which is ironic, since NATO was established to protect European countries from invasion by Russia. It stands to reason that Europeans should be the major contributors.

We spend the most money and get the least benefits. For that reason, U.S. should leave NATO.

You conflate spending on “defense” with spending on EUROPEAN defense. The United States has chosen to move its military forces to other parts of the world beyond just Europe, like East Asia. If you count the actual portion of the defense budget dedicated to NATO, I suspect that it is on par with that of the European countries. We need to stop whining about this.

 

[Rexedgar]

LePen will cause issues for NATO stability. If populism wins in France it will be a disaster for the alliance. I can tell you a lot of Eastern European media is nervous for France.

Some people that like to criticize France, I won't mention who they are, should keep their mouth shut before this election. It is crucial for Macron to win this election for the stability of Europe.

The risk of populism in Europe is here. This is due to the war, the criminal Putin and the "professionalism" of the president of Ukraine in my opinion. He criticized Orban, the madman got more votes, a few days ago he was praising the UK and attacking Macron. Now the far right is closing in on Macron.

Where I was born. The far right is at 20 % and people are voicing concerns with economics.

So the question is? Will we be loyal here and understand that there will be costs to this war? Or we will have 10 mini Donnie Trumps and no NATO alliance running around? Also forget EU either. We all know how nationalists think.

I am starting to think this is Putin's game if he does not find a deal that he wants there. He will test West's loyalty based on the economy.

Hasn’t France left NATO before?

!966-2009, IIRC.

 

[ElChupacabra]

You're missing the point. NATO protects Europe from Russian expansionism. Russia is not going to expand to the US, so we really don't need to be a member of a body which prevents it.

What's the point of buying airplane insurance if you don't own a plane?

I suppose that depends on what side of the power vacuum fence one sits on. One of the problems with being a global power is a nation's interests expand beyond its borders, and the question is whether it makes sense to place fences further away from the homeland to address threats from a distance, or wait until those threats become powerful enough to be a concern closer to home. I lean much more to cutting down on foreign interventions, but am also aware that power vacuums tend to get filled pretty quickly, and right now Russia and China seem eager to fill those voids. An alliance like NATO helps keep the Russians at bay, and since Russia has been active in its former republics, it's not as if they have proven themselves to be a non-aggressive actor.

 

[Centrist]

Hasn’t France left NATO before?

!966-2009, IIRC.

I don't know the details. Did they leave? I remember when Jacques Chirac spoke against the war in Iraq and fully supported his position while Americans were banning "French" fries in military stations.

Turned out those French knew what they were talking about.

Sometimes is good to listen to your friends and allies.

@Rexedgar

Correct
In 2004, France moved one step closer to the NATO military structure by assigning personnel to the permanent staffs of SHAPE and its subordinate headquarters, and in 2009 France officially rejoined NATO's integrated military command structure.

As a founding member it always maintained a certain influence.

 

[The flaming lib]

My country is in NATO and it really doesn’t matter to me. My country is the one that everyone looks to to solve the worlds problems. It’s time for the other nations of the world (Europe) to step up and contribute the same or more than my country for once. I certainly hope that the ruskies have now scared European leaders to the point that they will modernize and keep staffing levels up to where they promised. The beloved Trumpsta said a couple years ago that Europe has to quit hiding behind my country. Well, TRUMPSTA WASRIGHT!!! I guess the ruskies have scared Germany so much that they will now commit to upgrading and adding staffing.
let’s see the Europeans step up for once.

 

[Centrist]

let’s see the Europeans step up for once.

And how many American companies benefited from this influence to start in the country that they are now stationed in?

The US provides a service and gets a return don't you worry about that. In most countries, except for Hungary, both parties are happy with the transaction. And some are paying now that percentage that the Donnie was yelling about.

 

[Rumpel]

Boooooooooo!!!!

Should have been a public poll.

I hardly ever do public polls.
Why should ?
Or: Why should we?

 

[Callen]

My country is in NATO and it really doesn’t matter to me. My country is the one that everyone looks to to solve the worlds problems. It’s time for the other nations of the world (Europe) to step up and contribute the same or more than my country for once. I certainly hope that the ruskies have now scared European leaders to the point that they will modernize and keep staffing levels up to where they promised. The beloved Trumpsta said a couple years ago that Europe has to quit hiding behind my country. Well, TRUMPSTA WASRIGHT!!! I guess the ruskies have scared Germany so much that they will now commit to upgrading and adding staffing.
let’s see the Europeans step up for once.

Your country is the only country that has ever invoked article 5 of the NATO pact that required all other NATO countries to come to their military defense....and we did with great loss of our blood and treasure. The US has never come to the military defense of another NATO country under the articles of NATO....So screw off!

 

[Gatsby]

Your country is the only country that has ever invoked article 5 of the NATO pact that required all other NATO countries to come to their military defense....and we did with great loss of our blood and treasure. The US has never come to the military defense of another NATO country......So screw off!

The point of Article 5 is that it stops wars without *needing* to be invoked. The reason the US has never come to the military defense of another NATO country is because it hasn't been necessary, and the reason it hasn't been necessary is because everyone understands the US will come to the military defense of other NATO countries.

 

[SkyChief]

. . . I suspect that [US' contributions to NATO] is on par with that of the European countries. We need to stop whining about this.

But it's NOT. US contributes more than "par" - MUCH more.

The U.S. & Germany contribute the most.