Leaving NATO?

[AmNat]

NATO is one of the most important international organizations in the world, and its influence is almost entirely positive. We should definitely stay in NATO. In fact, we should strengthen NATO.

The slave traders of Libya would certainly agree.

 

[Peter]

The alliance has been a good thing for the UK so I see no reason for the UK to leave.

 

[Risky Thicket]

NATO, the U.S. should continue to be a NATO member.

The naked truth is, however, many Americans will do sweet feck all to sacrifice for the U.S., let alone foreign nations. It is the ugly truth but true nonetheless.

If you want to be a winner sometimes you have to play away games.

 

[Centrist]

The UK has taken command of NATO’s air policing mission in Romania. Royal Air Force Typhoons, their pilots and ground crew will operate the enhanced mission for the fourth time since it began operating in 2014. It comes at a time of massive tension across NATO’s eastern flank with Russia's invasion of Romania's neighbour, Ukraine.

 

[Juin]

So it is! And those Germans in films can do no nothing than always run around stupidly and crying: "Achtung, Achtung!" and shooting with big clumsy machine guns - but not hitting anybody - while the elegant British hero is hiding behind a tree and shoots half the German army with his elegant lady pistol - if British war films are to be believed ....

That is the general theme! For just about all of them. Settings may change, but the script was always along same lines. Usually the good guys- in this case the elegant Brits- never more than just a squad, finds itself in a fix behind German lines, surrounded by hundreds of Germans, heavily armed, with tanks added to the mix. All ending in a climatic scene of the heroic Brits taking down the Germans by the hundreds. Tanks, gun carriers, apcs blown up. Of course, the Brits take some hits, just to try to keep it real, but not too much, maybe squad gets reduced by half. A heroic pair of Brits then step away from the debris!

Not fair at all. And if one is a German it is hard to protest at Tommy's egregious distortion of history. Best to just stay silent, I imagine. Protests change nothing, and the poor protester is easily intimated into silence by subtle threats of denunciation as a closet Nazi sympathiser.

For a while now Hollywood has been having difficulties coming up with acceptable villains. Everyone has been protesting. Arabs could make good villains, but they protested successfully. The Chinese as well. Italians as well

But Russians may be heaven sent. They should grace the screens as villains for at least a decade.

 

[Juin]

For the record, I don't have a high horse attitude toward NATO. I'd be OK with most of the other NATO countries not having a military at all and just letting the US protect them, if that's what they want to do. All I'm saying is that it's obviously wrong that America has never spilled blood defending NATO members. We just did our blood-spilling *before* we formed NATO, which makes it unnecessary now. It's President Teddy Roosevelt's foreign policy: "Speak softly and carry a big stick."

And if the stick is big enough one may not even have to use it. The size of the stick eliminates the necessity to use it

 

[Mr. Invisible]

I'm fine with getting rid of NATO. Honestly, I view it as redundant. The US already has MDPs with most, if not all, NATO members so there's no real point.

 

[Grand Mal]

If the US pulls out, it'll dissolve on its own. Why waste time. just end it.

Your opinion of the importance of the US to NATO isn't shared by the rest of the world. Why on earth you think the US is vital to NATO is a mystery. In fact, an ally as untrustworthy as the US is no asset to any alliance. The UK, Germany, France, Canada and the rest of the alliance would not miss America at all.
I don't know what you think you bring to the table. The world's biggest military is no good to anyone if It's been proven to be ineffective against even third-rate opposition. 20 years, four Presidents, thousands of wasted lives and trillions of wasted dollars later and it looks like nobody has ever been in Afghanistan but Afghans.

 

[Mycroft]

Your opinion of the importance of the US to NATO isn't shared by the rest of the world. Why on earth you think the US is vital to NATO is a mystery. In fact, an ally as untrustworthy as the US is no asset to any alliance. The UK, Germany, France, Canada and the rest of the alliance would not miss America at all.
I don't know what you think you bring to the table. The world's biggest military is no good to anyone if It's been proven to be ineffective against even third-rate opposition. 20 years, four Presidents, thousands of wasted lives and trillions of wasted dollars later and it looks like nobody has ever been in Afghanistan but Afghans.

Right. That's why everyone in Europe panicked when Trump made veiled threats of pulling out of NATO. Because the US is "no asset to any alliance".

The fact is, the US is considered the piggy bank for ever alliance. Nobody wants to lose their piggy bank.

 

[Luce]

WRONG.

NATO was formed in 1949 to provide collective security of European countries against the threat posed by the Soviet Union.

It's the same thing.

 

[Callen]

Right. That's why everyone in Europe panicked when Trump made veiled threats of pulling out of NATO. Because the US is "no asset to any alliance".

The fact is, the US is considered the piggy bank for ever alliance. Nobody wants to lose their piggy bank.

The US is in NATO for one purpose and one purpose only. It serves their best interests. The US defense budget would be the same with or without NATO. There is nothing altruistic, magnanimous or charitable about it. They want the control....and I'm OK with that.

 

[Mr. Invisible]

Your opinion of the importance of the US to NATO isn't shared by the rest of the world. Why on earth you think the US is vital to NATO is a mystery. In fact, an ally as untrustworthy as the US is no asset to any alliance. The UK, Germany, France, Canada and the rest of the alliance would not miss America at all.
I don't know what you think you bring to the table. The world's biggest military is no good to anyone if It's been proven to be ineffective against even third-rate opposition. 20 years, four Presidents, thousands of wasted lives and trillions of wasted dollars later and it looks like nobody has ever been in Afghanistan but Afghans.

I do have to say, the situation regarding the shit-show in Afghanistan was much more political in nature rather than lack of military ability.

 

[SkyChief]

The Founding Fathers would be hopping mad if they learned that the US became entangled in NATO.

"Let our affairs be disentangled from those of all other nations, except as to commerce." - Thomas Jefferson

"Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations — entangling alliances with none." - Thomas Jefferson

"It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliance with any portion of the foreign world." - George Washington

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

WRONG.

NATO was formed in 1949 to provide collective security of European countries against the threat posed by the Soviet Union.

The U.N. was created to deter further world wars.

Russian invasion of Ukraine IS a threat and you not only prefer to pretend that's not a threat to the United States, you appear to welcome Putin calling the shots because you probably think he's a libertarian.

 

[Rumpel]

That is the general theme! For just about all of them. Settings may change, but the script was always along same lines. Usually the good guys- in this case the elegant Brits- never more than just a squad, finds itself in a fix behind German lines, surrounded by hundreds of Germans, heavily armed, with tanks added to the mix. All ending in a climatic scene of the heroic Brits taking down the Germans by the hundreds. Tanks, gun carriers, apcs blown up. Of course, the Brits take some hits, just to try to keep it real, but not too much, maybe squad gets reduced by half. A heroic pair of Brits then step away from the debris!

I see you also have frequented cinemas in England in the past.
Btw: I am not protesting - I am only observing with amusement.

And I can remember one film where German soldiers do not come across as villains. This one:

The Eagle Has Landed is a 1976 British war film directed by John Sturges and starring Michael Caine, Donald Sutherland, and Robert Duvall.

Based on the 1975 novel The Eagle Has Landed by Jack Higgins, the film is about a fictional German plot to kidnap Winston Churchill near the end of the Second World War. The Eagle Has Landed was Sturges's final film, and was successful upon its release

The Eagle Has Landed (film) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

The Founding Fathers would be hopping mad if they learned that the US became entangled in NATO.

"Let our affairs be disentangled from those of all other nations, except as to commerce." - Thomas Jefferson

"Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations — entangling alliances with none." - Thomas Jefferson

"It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliance with any portion of the foreign world." - George Washington

Founding Fathers never witnessed Tsar Bomba.
Sit DOWN.

 

[Rumpel]

• my country is not a member of NATO - but for me NATO is a good thing​

• my country is not a member of NATO - and for me NATO is NOT a good thing​

I wonder what our members from Austria and Ireland and Sweden and Finland may say?

 

[Helix]

Putin just made that pretty much impossible even if voters are stupid enough to elect the mango mistake again.

 

[SkyChief]

Russian invasion of Ukraine IS a threat and you not only prefer to pretend that's not a threat to the United States, you appear to welcome Putin calling the shots because you probably think he's a libertarian.

Wow. What a dumb post.

Everything you said about me is completely false.

Founding Fathers never witnessed Tsar Bomba.
Sit DOWN.

Tsar Bomba?

Huh?

WTF are you talking about? Tsar Bomba has nothing to do with the Founding Fathers' warning about entangling alliances with foreign countries.

 

[Juin]

I see you also have frequented cinemas in England in the past.

Those WWII movies circulated all over. They almost always were of same theme.

Btw: I am not protesting - I am only observing with amusement.

True. Btw have Germans been making WWII movies? I dont recall any. I dont speak German, but I imagine it would have subtitles. There are a few exploits that I will like to see on screen. The taking of Fort Eben Emael by German parachutists being an example. It is high up there in the history of airborne troops.

But it is also not just about movies. There is also D Day celebrated for decades by the allies. I believe sometimes Germans are invited. But it will still be odd for a German, I imagine.

And I can remember one film where German soldiers do not come across as villains. This one:

The Eagle Has Landed (film) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That was a good movie and book. I read the book and saw the movie.

 

[Phys251]

Leaving NATO has been a popular idea for some at times.
I wonder how the feeling is now theses days.

Anyone who picked the second option should move to Russia and never come back.

 

[Phys251]

Wow. What a dumb post.

Everything you said about me is completely false.


Tsar Bomba?

Huh?

WTF are you talking about? Tsar Bomba has nothing to do with the Founding Fathers' warning about entangling alliances with foreign countries.

Quit your whining. @Checkerboard Strangler is just calling out your bullshit.

 

[Rumpel]

True. Btw have Germans been making WWII movies?

There will be some.
I remember one about Stalingrad - in black and white.
More or less depressing, of course.

And then there is "Die Brücke" - where very young German pupils had to defend a bridge near the end of the war.
I will see whether I can find an English text about it.

 

[Gatsby]

Your opinion of the importance of the US to NATO isn't shared by the rest of the world. Why on earth you think the US is vital to NATO is a mystery. In fact, an ally as untrustworthy as the US is no asset to any alliance. The UK, Germany, France, Canada and the rest of the alliance would not miss America at all.

Are you referring specifically to those countries? Are you prepared to send Canadian troops to defend Estonia if necessary? Because without US involvement, those other countries you named would need to offer more than just token support to the effort. You would be the ones fighting Russia for real. To protect Estonia.

It's easy enough to be dismissive when you have no enemies in your neighborhood, like the countries you named. I doubt the people of Eastern Europe feel the same. And the fact that you lump many of the most important non-US members of NATO together as "the rest of the alliance" suggests that you aren't actually committed to their security.

I don't know what you think you bring to the table. The world's biggest military is no good to anyone if It's been proven to be ineffective against even third-rate opposition. 20 years, four Presidents, thousands of wasted lives and trillions of wasted dollars later and it looks like nobody has ever been in Afghanistan but Afghans.

Afghanistan is not Europe.

 

[BahamaBob]

Anyone who picked the second option should move to Russia and never come back.

Spoken like a true war monger. Impressive. See things my way or get out. You must be related to Trump.